Down goes the Dow

U. R. Stupid wrote:

I am stupid wrote:

Hit the performance tab ignoramus. You need to change the handle to “i am stupid.”

Those numbers are “as of October 17.”

Earth to Igy: today is Oct 19.

Oh, snap!

Do the math from the chart supplied.

Year to date thru 10/19/2018

HSGFX -0.10%

TNA -8.10%

You lose bigly, you should not have pointed that out.

Oh Sh#t!

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Do the math from the chart supplied.

Year to date thru 10/19/2018

HSGFX -0.10%

TNA -8.10%

You lose bigly, you should not have pointed that out.

So you agree that your original numbers were wrong?

Oh no you dint wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Do the math from the chart supplied.

Year to date thru 10/19/2018

HSGFX -0.10%

TNA -8.10%

You lose bigly, you should not have pointed that out.

So you agree that your original numbers were wrong?

Yes, the performance discrepancy between the two funds was far worse. I apologize for this error, the Hussman Fund is far superior in this revised analysis.

What a fascinating discussion! Two posters arguing which of two terrible funds is the worst one. Scintillating.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Do the math from the chart supplied.

Year to date thru 10/19/2018

HSGFX -0.10%

TNA -8.10%

You lose bigly, you should not have pointed that out.

I got -1.1% and -5.5% respectively.

Sarcasm Mann wrote:

What a fascinating discussion! Two posters arguing which of two terrible funds is the worst one. Scintillating.

Jeremiah Lowin : "It's true that finance debates often resemble a bunch of squirrels desperately trying to convince each other that they remember where the acorns are buried..."

YTD Total Return ( Dec 29 , 2017 close )

HSGFX -1.12%

TNA -5.49%

TZA -9.82%

IWM 1.46%

Please note , IWM , the Russell 2000 ETF is up 1.46% YTD . Yet TNA , a Russell 2000 3x Bull is down -5.49% instead of up 4.38%. TZA , a Russell 2000 3x Bear is down -9.82% instead of -4.38% . This why one should only use Leveraged ETFs intraday .

la gente ésta muy loca wrote:

Sarcasm Mann wrote:

What a fascinating discussion! Two posters arguing which of two terrible funds is the worst one. Scintillating.

Jeremiah Lowin : "It's true that finance debates often resemble a bunch of squirrels desperately trying to convince each other that they remember where the acorns are buried..."

YTD Total Return ( Dec 29 , 2017 close )

HSGFX -1.12%

TNA -5.49%

TZA -9.82%

IWM 1.46%

Please note , IWM , the Russell 2000 ETF is up 1.46% YTD . Yet TNA , a Russell 2000 3x Bull is down -5.49% instead of up 4.38%. TZA , a Russell 2000 3x Bear is down -9.82% instead of -4.38% . This why one should only use Leveraged ETFs intraday .

Thanks muy loca. Of all of the above, which do you think will do better over the next year?

J. Hardy wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Do the math from the chart supplied.

Year to date thru 10/19/2018

HSGFX -0.10%

TNA -8.10%

You lose bigly, you should not have pointed that out.

I got -1.1% and -5.5% respectively.

Yes, my mistake again used start of chart which was 1/2/2018. My bad.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

J. Hardy wrote:

I got -1.1% and -5.5% respectively.

Yes, my mistake again used start of chart which was 1/2/2018. My bad.

Morningstar giving the same figures but footnote is as of 10/18/2018 close, but I think your numbers are correct. If not mine would be more accurate based on Friday’s performance. Currently I am in my easy chair to lazy to get a pen and paper.

I appreciate being vindicated. Thanks to those of you who stood up.

la gente ésta muy loca wrote:

Sarcasm Mann wrote:

What a fascinating discussion! Two posters arguing which of two terrible funds is the worst one. Scintillating.

Jeremiah Lowin : "It's true that finance debates often resemble a bunch of squirrels desperately trying to convince each other that they remember where the acorns are buried..."

YTD Total Return ( Dec 29 , 2017 close )

HSGFX -1.12%

TNA -5.49%

TZA -9.82%

IWM 1.46%

Please note , IWM , the Russell 2000 ETF is up 1.46% YTD . Yet TNA , a Russell 2000 3x Bull is down -5.49% instead of up 4.38%. TZA , a Russell 2000 3x Bear is down -9.82% instead of -4.38% . This why one should only use Leveraged ETFs intraday .

The thing with the triple leveraged ETFs like TNA is that they get more out of whack the more volatility there is since they re-balance on a daily basis, unlike non-leveraged ETFs and mutual funds. For periods like the last year when there was little volatility, discrepencies like you noted are less drastic. Also, the ability to 3 times the market movement (roughly) at the same cost may offset the cost of owning it.

I've been moving out of the triple leveraged ETFs and instead, buying three times the amount of the non-leveraged ETF instead, and trying to do so at a lower entry point where possible.

Seattle,

Also, you have to consider transaction costs and market moves. If you are commited to a view, as you saw last week these things can easily move 3-5% either way in a day.

Igy

U. R. Stupid wrote:

I appreciate being vindicated. Thanks to those of you who stood up.

You are not vindicated since they were not daily numbers. Sorry return to your safe space until volatility dissipates.

Given his history of miscalculations, no one should be surprised that Igy was repeatedly wrong with those YTD numbers. He should leave the calculations to us experts.

4th grader wrote:

Given his history of miscalculations, no one should be surprised that Igy was repeatedly wrong with those YTD numbers. He should leave the calculations to us experts.

That is categorically untrue since throughout the discussion numerous mistakes were made including mine. I demand proof that the recent calculations are correct. Besides the point was demonstrating the superiority of HSGFX over TNA on a year-to-date basis. Even a 4th Grader could see the superiority of the Hussman Strategic Growth Fund in the current environment. The question remains whether into year end is momentum (trading) a superior strategy to fundamentals (hedging/cash).

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

U. R. Stupid wrote:

I appreciate being vindicated. Thanks to those of you who stood up.

You are not vindicated since they were not daily numbers. Sorry return to your safe space until volatility dissipates.

My point was always that your original numbers were wrong. You have admitted as much.

U. R. Stupid wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

You are not vindicated since they were not daily numbers. Sorry return to your safe space until volatility dissipates.

My point was always that your original numbers were wrong. You have admitted as much.

Oh beat me with a wet noodle!