Training Log for a 2:30ish Boston Marathon 2018

I agree with everything you said 800 dude. That's what we see all the time from elite athletes putting in mega mileage. Unfortunately, it doesn't apply here because Reed has admittedly stated that he's been undertraining. Anyway my last post was cutoff I only bring this up because going out at 2:30 pace may lead to brutal second half. If he's cool with going for broke then have at it, but if not, rethinking the target pace wouldn't be a bad idea because literally nothing he has done in training or racing indicates 2:30 is a realistic goal. Sort of like what he said about his friend in his post. My attention is maxed on this subject though.

What's the weather looking like?

Oh and in terms of the Sunday/Monday debate, that always drove me nuts when I was a more rigid Daniels follower. I have always looked at weeks as Monday to Sunday, especially because I might occasionally run a long run on Saturday (as blasphemous as that may be). The idea that the weeks start with Q1 made it tougher to plan mileage. If you do want to follow the mileage religiously, then just take the weeks Mileage, subtract the plans Q1 and add in the following weeks Q1. For me now though, I basically get the same workouts in, but move them around (more V02 Max early), and adjust the mileage as I go.

Banana Dieter wrote:

reed wrote:

This is easy to say and very very hard to do. There's no way I'm cutting out processed foods...I'm way too lazy/unmotivated for that. I'm not trying to make a miracle happen here, just to run a 2:29. Not worth living like Kipchoge just to run a 2:27.

1) It's not that hard to cut out processed food. 2) 2:29 will require a miracle for you. 3) I'm not trying to be a huge dick but what makes you think you can run 2:29? You ran a 1:13 half recently and as you have stated you aren't training that hard. People who break 2:30 at Boston are typically in far better shape and/or train much harder. My unwanted advice would be for you to go out in 1:18. If you go out in

I definitely agree that it would take a miracle for me to run 2:29 at Boston this year. I just meant that I don't need a miracle to run 2:29 at some point, maybe later this year or next year.

To those who supported me and said my 73 was fast enough...I'd actually disagree. If 73 was the best I could manage that day, I'd say that most people in my situation would only be capable of 2:34ish. I feel that I was under odd circumstances so I'm capable of better than 2:34 right now. My half would not have been Rupp-certified to say the least...too many tight turns.

Anyway, right now I'm just happy to be back in PR range and hoping that doing all the right things in the next few weeks can take me to 2:31 fitness. I'll be racing a 5000m tomorrow (why not?) hoping for 15:45ish and about 8 days before Boston I'm racing a 10,000m, probably shooting for 32:30.

FYI, Daniels says 32:30 equals 15:38, 71:37, and 2:29:57. (assumes same surface/conditions which would slow the half/full).

Banana Dieter wrote:

I agree with everything you said 800 dude. That's what we see all the time from elite athletes putting in mega mileage. Unfortunately, it doesn't apply here because Reed has admittedly stated that he's been undertraining. Anyway my last post was cutoff I only bring this up because going out at 2:30 pace may lead to brutal second half. If he's cool with going for broke then have at it, but if not, rethinking the target pace wouldn't be a bad idea because literally nothing he has done in training or racing indicates 2:30 is a realistic goal. Sort of like what he said about his friend in his post. My attention is maxed on this subject though.

What's the weather looking like?

This is the toughest aspect of Boston, you have to be 100% confident and accurate about what you are capable of or you risk an epic blow up. I feel I could run 2:34 on a chicago type course. If thats true, I could realistically go through 16 at 2:34 pace, give back a minute through Newton and break 2:35. But if Im really in 2:36 shape and Im running 5 seconds per mile too fast for 16 miles, I would expect to run about 2:43. The last miles 9 miles are basically an amplifier for any misjudgement in fitness. Im almost inclined to try the impossible and go through the half in 1:17:30 and hope to negative split just because the risk is so much lower. Boston is a terrible place to try and go chase a specific time.

800 dude wrote:

I guess my bottom line is that with the marathon, unlike with shorter distances, there are no good ways to prove that you're ready for a particular time.

1) Agree, in a sense that race results in the weeks leading up to a marathon are not exclusive (or even good) indicators of what you're capable of for 26.2. Anecdotally, I ran a 1:09 half in my lead-up to Boston 2017... and then ran 2:33.

2) Disagree, in a sense that the big picture (consistency in mileage and workouts) CAN usually give you a pretty good idea of what you're capable of for 26.2. Anecdotally, I ran a 1:12 half in my lead-up to my Fall 2017 marathon... and then ran 2:29. The half result had me pretty bummed, but the overall effort from the 3 months leading up to the goal race was what I chose to focus on.

Also, Reed, that is a lot of soda. You've admitted that 2:29 isn't realistic for Boston and that it won't take a miracle to eventually run under 2:30. But it might take getting comfortable with shedding bad habits. You don't need to live like a monk, but you should look to minimize those types of small detriments. They add up. Cheers.

Except I think that you really were in sub 2:30 shape at Boston last year but had tough weather conditions in which to try to hit that time - you subsequent 2:29 on a very windy day proves that.

Agree that Boston is a tough place to set out for a specific time. From my perspective, the weather is the biggest issue. If we get a warm day or a head wind, there is no way I even consider 2:29:xx. If we get a cool day with no head wind or (oh please, oh please, oh please) a decent tailwind, I will likely give it a go if my training doesn't go south between now and race day.

Glad the discussion has picked up some.

Another week has gone by and I'm still not in 2:29 shape, but I feel that I'm in 2:32 shape (for flat course, perfect weather, etc).

M 10 easy/slow (day after half marathon) not too beat up actually

T 10.6 feeling decent already...some 7:00ish miles came easy

W 14 w/ 60min fartlek. avg 5:50 pace (marathon PR pace)

Th 9.7 easy. tired but slogged it out

F 6.7 easy pre-meet. tired

Sa attempted 5000m race. DNF at 4k to save the legs. too tired or bad day or both. shakeout later, 12.5 total

Su 20 moderate LR. 3mi easy, 7:20s then got into 6:40s. by 9ish we were 6:10s and stayed in 6:00-6:15 for 6-7 miles, hilly.

total 84 miles, 10hrs.

Wednesday was a great workout as it is designed to average to marathon pace and I negative split it, hitting my PR pace with relative ease. The combo of the half marathon and that workout left me a little cooked for the 5k race, so I had my first ever DNF. was only running 77s, like 16:10 pace I think. I only signed up because it was local and free, so no worries. I consider it a 4k tempo at 10k goal pace. Funny enough, there were 46 guys in the heat yet I was somehow alone running 16:00ish pace.

Sunday made up for the DNF as I was able to average 6:39s for a hilly route (950' gain, all basically in last 10mi). I'm finally looking forward to some MP workouts as I haven't done any yet. Will probably go with 5:48ish as goal pace for now.

Plan for next week:

90 miles with some speedwork on wednesday and a long run workout on sunday. plan is 4x4k (a bit faster than GMP) with 1k floats. Guessing that means something like 5:40 pace for the 4k tempos and 6:20 pace for the floats. that would be 20k total at 5:48 avg.

Had a great last 20 miler today with some M pace. Got me very motivated to start thinking about the race and post an update. The last 10 days have been a struggle though fighting a deep chest cough. I havent felt particularly sick but its definitely affecting me in terms of quantity and quality (until today.)

Week Ending 3/18 - 74 miles total (70 in 5 runs)

18 easy tuesday

6 x 1000, 2 x 400, 4 x 200, first 4 averaged 3:15 before things got ugly and it became a lactate tolerance workout

20 @ 7:03 pace with 700 ft of climbing

Week Ending 3/25 - 67 miles total (6 runs)

Bombed my 4 x 3200 workout and dropped out after a 11:33 and an 11:50, ran easy for three days to prep for today

Today - 3 easy, 7@6:07, 1@5:41, 7@6:07, 2 easy. Felt like I could go for a while longer. This is in line with my best workouts but it feels good to just go out and hit the times after battling this cough and some bad workouts in the last 3 weeks. Also, I averaged 6:05 for 15 and my PR at sea level is a 6:06 average, which is a big mental boost.

I'm a bit worried that the drop in mileage from being sick may mess with my taper so I'm thinking I'll still do 18 Tuesday and then hit 80-85 on the week but start backing down the mileage on Friday.

I'm pretty confident in 2:34 ability right now on a flat course. I really want to break 2:35 and am hoping for a fast day. Decent weather and I'll aim for going out in 1:17, losing a minute through Newton and holding on for dear life.

The injury bug bit me pretty hard after my 15k two weeks ago, with some serious tendinitis in my lower left leg. I then strained my right hamstring two days after the 15k, probably because I was favoring the left leg.

Only ran two days the week after the 15k, and cross trained on the elliptical 3 days, with two simulated tempo efforts on those three days. One workout was 60 minutes easy followed by 2 x 15 minutes at tempo effort with 2:00 rest and 8:00 down. The other workout was 4 x 12:00 tempo effort (60 minutes total)

This past week, I ran 6 days for a total of 50 miles and did 70 minutes on the elliptical the 7th day. I also added 20 minutes on the elliptical on one of my 6 mile days for added general aerobic volume. Only workout was yesterday, and it was a running workout - 2 miles up, 10k at tempo pace (33:21), 11.8 easy after for a total of 20 miles.

Not sure if I will make the trip to Boston. Fitness is there, but health is iffy enough to put it in doubt. Hamstring seems mostly better, but lower leg is a mess. I will try to get two more workouts in - one 10-13 miler at marathon pace and one more 20 miler with a bit of tempo mixed in.

If I can do both of those workouts laudably, I'll race; if I can't, I won't.

No point in going up if I don't think I have a shot at top 3-5 in my age group.

I was having a solid week until Friday night...picked up something fierce and I've basically been couch-ridden for 2 days now.

M short on time, only 7.3 miles easy

T traveling for work, 10 miles in some sketchy Los Angeles neighborhoods

W 11.2, doubled 5+6. short on time but got in an early morning and a late night run

Th 14 w/3x2mi MP, 1mi float. windy but did about 5:51, 5:49, 5:46. floats in 6:10ish. total 14mi at 6:18 avg

F 5+8 double, 12.8 total. then got sick

Sa off, sick (planned 12mi easy)

Su off, sick (planned 21mi with 4x4k MP or faster with 1k floats)

total 55 miles. bummer that I missed basically my only marathon specific long workout. Will try to do a long run workout midweek if I recover from this sickness. Don't have much time for any more than one more.

After some weeks of inconsistent training, I ran an unexpected 1h12:15 for the Half-Marathon in Milan yesterday.

Running is weird - sometimes you train well, do everything right before the race, and just crash at it.

Other times you just go for a race at no pressure, don't care about eating well before, or sleeping, even have some light drinking and do plenty of sight seeing the day before, and well, things just go perfectly fine.

Ran with a nice pack that included some elite women, so that was a nice experience.

Plus I've been averaging no more than 50-55 miles per week this year so not that much.

I had some more in the tank yesterday and guess I am in good track for my sub 2h30 attempt (between September-November, race still TBD) and a realistic chance of running a 1h10 in like two months.

I wish a great week to all sub 2h30 dreamers!!

Been following along this thread -- it's been awesome to see everyone's training. I'm shooting for sub-2:40. Hit a 13.1 mile tempo in 1:19-low in a 20 miler last week so think I'm where I need to be.

How close is too close to get a tune-up race in? I got the flu earlier in the block and missed out on the half marathon I had wanted to do. I'm looking at a 10k on April 7th, which is 9 days out. If I don't do it, I would opt for a 6 mile tempo on the 6th. I don't need to use the race to tempo. I would want to be racing it. If not, I'm heading into Boston with no races since December.

What do folks think? Any advice?

I wouldn't race hard 9 days out. I'd 100% do the tempo effort instead.

Smoove wrote:

I wouldn't race hard 9 days out. I'd 100% do the tempo effort instead.

I'd go ahead and race the 10k. If you end up running well, the confidence boost will be better than any residual fatigue. But I'm only 25 years old.

Another way of looking at it is that if you snag a 10k PR and then you catch the flu the day before your marathon, at least you have the 10k PR.

I appreciate the advice from the both of you. I'm also 25 and know that Boston should be the focus and a tempo is probably the right choice. I got the flu in February and missed about two weeks where I was supposed to hit a 10k and a half. Those PRs were ready to go down so there is a lot of appeal to PR in the 10k and have some confidence heading into Boston. I know some pros advocate for a 10k two weeks out. 9 days is less time but I think it's doable.

I'll be honest, I didn't read it properly and saw that you missed a half and thought that's what you were racing. A 10k still isn't optimal, but isn't as categorically a bad idea as a half.

Hope everyone is feeling good going into the last few weeks! Have a pacing question for you guys... I've averaged about 80 mpw the past 15-18 weeks w/ some peaks of 90 and 100... My only concern is, like Smoove, I live in Florida where its pretty much pancake flat aside from some Intra-coastal waterway bridges. I'm concerned that even though I can pretty much cruise at 2:41 pace in training, my lack of hill training might inhibit my success on the Boston course. I've done a handful of hill specific workouts, minimal downhills (have some chronic foot and ankle issues, and don't want to roll the dice). PRs in the past few months have been a 1:16:10 HM on a cool day (45F)/flat course, and a 1:17:01 HM on a not so cool day (70s)/flat course. I've followed a 2Q-esque Daniels build, and have hit plenty of T and I/R workouts that correlate with my 1:16 HM. Here are my passed few weeks workouts:

This past Sunday: 20 miles w/ 13 @ 6:07 pace (M) - relatively comfortable

Wednesday: Mixed hard 20 second bridge sprints + 3 x 1 mile flat repeats at 10k pace (5:35) - 12 miles total

Previous Sunday: 20 miles w/ 4 x 1 mile @ 5:40 (T) + 10 easy + 2 @ 5:45

Wednesday: Mixed fartlek hills on treadmill @ about 5k-HM effort @ 9 mph at (8%, 6%, 5%, 4%, 3%) duration between 1 and 5 minutes for 14 miles total

My thinking was to go out a little conservatively, like goal MP + 15 seconds, build the pace until mile 16, give up a few minutes for the 5 miles between Newton and HB hill, then try to scrape back a few minutes on the final 4+ downhill miles. For what it's worth, this is my second year in a row running the race, having run a 2:59:xx on minimal training last year (probably 50 mpw average with a few peaks at 70-75, nothing other than easy-moderate running whatsoever)

^

So Fl runner here. Have you ever done Boston? It will absolutely demolish you if you haven’t worked enough on hills.

RunMedic wrote:

My thinking was to go out a little conservatively, like goal MP + 15 seconds, build the pace until mile 16, give up a few minutes for the 5 miles between Newton and HB hill, then try to scrape back a few minutes on the final 4+ downhill miles. For what it's worth, this is my second year in a row running the race, having run a 2:59:xx on minimal training last year (probably 50 mpw average with a few peaks at 70-75, nothing other than easy-moderate running whatsoever)

Why even bother racing if you're gonna give up so much time anytime there's a bump in the road? Boston has hills, not mountains.