Moen. 2:05. Wins Fukuoka. How??

DHT123 wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:

1 - The test of 8th August in the lab of Dresden regards a blood sample carried out by the IAAF as soon as Sondre arrived London from Sankt Moritz, where he trained till the previous day. Probably for the great number of tests IAAF decided to use non the lab of London only, but some other Lab, not too far, and Dresden was one of them.

2 - Sondre had several tests in Kenya, but for urine only. In the period 2016 - 2017 he had 9 tests OOC.

3 - These are ALL the tests used for creating the Biological Passport. There are many other tests, mainly from the Norwegian Antidoping Agency (ADNO), for urine only (like the most part of OOC tests in every Country).

detected in the blood tests of WADA. I have many tests, sometimes researching values of hormones not investigated by the antidoping agencies, because my goal is to have a more precise picture about the connection between values and performances.

The work for connecting all these data is very hard (especially for somebody like me who coaches on the ground for 8-10

4 - For studying the effects of different training, and of altitude, during the last 6 years, I can also use some other private blood tests, where, for example, we went to investigate other values (such as Iron, Ferritin, Transferrin) which are not hours every day), and something is not clear. But, believe me, at the end we can have some connection that can change the "classic" ideas about training in altitude and doping.

5 - The data of Sondre started to grow a little from when he increased the volume of training, and when started to go (sometimes only) in altitude. And not forget he didn't train for more than one year, after the big surgery he had with prof. Orava, who showed in this case to be a real number one in his field.

Thanks again for the detailed reply. It just reiterates how little transparency there is out there when I think this is probably the first complete set of blood data that I have seen, despite following the topic quite closely over the past couple of years. You should be applauded for providing this information.

It does however, reaffirm the fact that the testing in Kenya is basically a black hole when it comes to blood testing and the ABP. True, there is some level of testing (urine), although the integrity of that testing has been questionable (pre-announced tests). But essentially the majority of the world's best athletes have no blood testing whenever they train there (which is most of the time), and that is not a great situation given that the ABP is the main weapon to identify suspicious patterns indicating doping.

COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:

Again some doubt for something for me normal, when an athlete of good talent has continuity, motivation, tough and correct training, living (as Kenyan) in altitude for the most part of the year (223 days from the first of January).

The big performance of Moen, but especially the WAY he did, can clearly show two things :

1) White runners, with high talent (but not exceptional like many Kenyans and Ethiopians), if chose to be ATHLETES having a main focus only for some year in running, can be like the best African, and sometimes also better.

2) Clean runners, with high talent (but non exceptional like many Kenyans and Ethiopians), if chose to be ATHLETES having a main focus only for some year in running, can be at the top of the World, not depending their performance on the fact if are African or not.

Of course now there is some sceptic idiot who looks at doping as main reason of his improvement. Who know Moen (and my clear position) well know that he never used any supplement, also legal, because this is against our principles, and I think it's the best way for making the mind weak.

The big improvement of this year was very gradual, and now seems like an explosion only because there were more than 4 minutes between his previous marathon in Hannover and today, but we have to see at the time passed between them :

237 days, during which it's possible to build new situation, including a great increase of self confidence and personality.

In training, I already saw the potentiality for running 2:06, but what surprised also myself today is the interpretation of the race, and the personality he showed, attacking after 30 km, with 29'16" between 30 and 40 km and the last 2.195m still faster (for an average of 2'55" per km in the last 12.195m).

I will write, how already I did after his HM of Valencia in 59:48, his full plan between Valencia and Fukuoka (ALWAYS IN ALTITUDE).

I hope that this results, instead being considered connected with some doping, can bring people to think that the limits we put in our mind about the clean performances are not real, and depend not from the doping of the other athletes, but on the fact that NOBODY WANTS TO DO A CLEAR CHOICE OF LIFE DEDICATED AT THE ATHLETICS FOR A SHORT PART OF HIS LIFE, something Sondre did full time this year, with 223 days (till Fukuoka) in altitude, the most part alone, having focus in training, eating and resting only.

The quality of his training improved day after day. In January, it was for him difficult to run two following days between 3'45" and 3'50" per km, because his legs were stiff and tired after a normal workout. Today, he's not able running slower than 3'40", an sometimes I had to force him to run at regeneration speed, not faster the 3'45".

The increase of his aerobic base gave him the opportunity to have frequent sessions with high volume of km at HM speed (between 2'47" and 2'52" per km) and at Marathon speed (between 2'57" and 3'02" per km), and now these two different speeds are normal in the development of his training.

After this, we have to ask ourself : "Which are the real limits for one athlete of high but not exceptional talent, who has continuity in training, right modulation between hard sessions and recovery, big motivation, ability to grow mentally and as self confidence, AND DO EVERYTHING IN HIGH ALTITUDE ?

And, when we know it's possible this when white and clean, can we really believe that everybody running fast is doped, and EPO can give advantages for athletes REALLY well trained in altitude of 1 minute in 10000m and 4 minutes in Marathon ?

Do you think I can suppose Sondre could run under 2:02 assuming EPO ?

And somebody still has the courage to ask me "which proof you are that EPO doesn't work", continuing with the example of Lombard or Lance Armstrong, without understanding the difference from athletes at different level as talent, motivation and training (IN ALTITUDE) , or from runners and bikers ?

Clean your minds, start to believe in yourselves, and go in hard CLEAN training if are really interested in improving their performances.

Congrats to Moen and you as the coach Renato! :) To me it was no surprise he ran 2.05.38. I told in beforehand that he after the Valencia half in 59.48 should be able to run the marathon in 2 x 59.48 + 5 min = 2.04.36 ! .....and because he is marathon prepared to stay the distance. He has during the year lowered his 5000m down to 13.20 and also been faster at 10000m ......To me this performance was just normal according to his former times at shorter distances and prove once more that mathematics and running results are very closed connected to each other. :)

Also one very,very important thing have now been proven once more......It`s of very high importance to run the distance aerobic work at the runners very best individual pace!!! Moen have now difficulty to run slower than 3.40 min/ km in training you say. It`s like I "preach" all the time.....To reach your optimal capacity as a middle-longdistancer the 3 most important factors to develop are maxVO2-pace, lactic threshold pace and at last the very best individual aerobic power distance pace. Cheers!

COACH J.S

COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:

Again some doubt for something for me normal, when an athlete of good talent has continuity, motivation, tough and correct training, living (as Kenyan) in altitude for the most part of the year (223 days from the first of January).

The big performance of Moen, but especially the WAY he did, can clearly show two things :

1) White runners, with high talent (but not exceptional like many Kenyans and Ethiopians), if chose to be ATHLETES having a main focus only for some year in running, can be like the best African, and sometimes also better.

2) Clean runners, with high talent (but non exceptional like many Kenyans and Ethiopians), if chose to be ATHLETES having a main focus only for some year in running, can be at the top of the World, not depending their performance on the fact if are African or not.

Of course now there is some sceptic idiot who looks at doping as main reason of his improvement. Who know Moen (and my clear position) well know that he never used any supplement, also legal, because this is against our principles, and I think it's the best way for making the mind weak.

The big improvement of this year was very gradual, and now seems like an explosion only because there were more than 4 minutes between his previous marathon in Hannover and today, but we have to see at the time passed between them :

237 days, during which it's possible to build new situation, including a great increase of self confidence and personality.

In training, I already saw the potentiality for running 2:06, but what surprised also myself today is the interpretation of the race, and the personality he showed, attacking after 30 km, with 29'16" between 30 and 40 km and the last 2.195m still faster (for an average of 2'55" per km in the last 12.195m).

I will write, how already I did after his HM of Valencia in 59:48, his full plan between Valencia and Fukuoka (ALWAYS IN ALTITUDE).

I hope that this results, instead being considered connected with some doping, can bring people to think that the limits we put in our mind about the clean performances are not real, and depend not from the doping of the other athletes, but on the fact that NOBODY WANTS TO DO A CLEAR CHOICE OF LIFE DEDICATED AT THE ATHLETICS FOR A SHORT PART OF HIS LIFE, something Sondre did full time this year, with 223 days (till Fukuoka) in altitude, the most part alone, having focus in training, eating and resting only.

The quality of his training improved day after day. In January, it was for him difficult to run two following days between 3'45" and 3'50" per km, because his legs were stiff and tired after a normal workout. Today, he's not able running slower than 3'40", an sometimes I had to force him to run at regeneration speed, not faster the 3'45".

The increase of his aerobic base gave him the opportunity to have frequent sessions with high volume of km at HM speed (between 2'47" and 2'52" per km) and at Marathon speed (between 2'57" and 3'02" per km), and now these two different speeds are normal in the development of his training.

After this, we have to ask ourself : "Which are the real limits for one athlete of high but not exceptional talent, who has continuity in training, right modulation between hard sessions and recovery, big motivation, ability to grow mentally and as self confidence, AND DO EVERYTHING IN HIGH ALTITUDE ?

And, when we know it's possible this when white and clean, can we really believe that everybody running fast is doped, and EPO can give advantages for athletes REALLY well trained in altitude of 1 minute in 10000m and 4 minutes in Marathon ?

Do you think I can suppose Sondre could run under 2:02 assuming EPO ?

And somebody still has the courage to ask me "which proof you are that EPO doesn't work", continuing with the example of Lombard or Lance Armstrong, without understanding the difference from athletes at different level as talent, motivation and training (IN ALTITUDE) , or from runners and bikers ?

Clean your minds, start to believe in yourselves, and go in hard CLEAN training if are really interested in improving their performances.

Congrats to Moen and you as the coach Renato! :) To me it was no surprise he ran 2.05.38. I told in beforehand that he after the Valencia half in 59.48 should be able to run the marathon in 2 x 59.48 + 5 min = 2.04.36 ! .....and because he is marathon prepared to stay the distance. He has during the year lowered his 5000m down to 13.20 and also been faster at 10000m ......To me this performance was just normal according to his former times at shorter distances and prove once more that mathematics and running results are very closed connected to each other. :)

Also one very,very important thing have now been proven once more......It`s of very high importance to run the distance aerobic work at the runners very best individual pace!!! Moen have now difficulty to run slower than 3.40 min/ km in training you say. It`s like I "preach" all the time.....To reach your optimal capacity as a middle-longdistancer the 3 most important factors to develop are maxVO2-pace, lactic threshold pace and at last the very best individual aerobic power distance pace. Cheers!

COACH J.S

COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:

Again some doubt for something for me normal, when an athlete of good talent has continuity, motivation, tough and correct training, living (as Kenyan) in altitude for the most part of the year (223 days from the first of January).

The big performance of Moen, but especially the WAY he did, can clearly show two things :

1) White runners, with high talent (but not exceptional like many Kenyans and Ethiopians), if chose to be ATHLETES having a main focus only for some year in running, can be like the best African, and sometimes also better.

2) Clean runners, with high talent (but non exceptional like many Kenyans and Ethiopians), if chose to be ATHLETES having a main focus only for some year in running, can be at the top of the World, not depending their performance on the fact if are African or not.

Of course now there is some sceptic idiot who looks at doping as main reason of his improvement. Who know Moen (and my clear position) well know that he never used any supplement, also legal, because this is against our principles, and I think it's the best way for making the mind weak.

The big improvement of this year was very gradual, and now seems like an explosion only because there were more than 4 minutes between his previous marathon in Hannover and today, but we have to see at the time passed between them :

237 days, during which it's possible to build new situation, including a great increase of self confidence and personality.

In training, I already saw the potentiality for running 2:06, but what surprised also myself today is the interpretation of the race, and the personality he showed, attacking after 30 km, with 29'16" between 30 and 40 km and the last 2.195m still faster (for an average of 2'55" per km in the last 12.195m).

I will write, how already I did after his HM of Valencia in 59:48, his full plan between Valencia and Fukuoka (ALWAYS IN ALTITUDE).

I hope that this results, instead being considered connected with some doping, can bring people to think that the limits we put in our mind about the clean performances are not real, and depend not from the doping of the other athletes, but on the fact that NOBODY WANTS TO DO A CLEAR CHOICE OF LIFE DEDICATED AT THE ATHLETICS FOR A SHORT PART OF HIS LIFE, something Sondre did full time this year, with 223 days (till Fukuoka) in altitude, the most part alone, having focus in training, eating and resting only.

The quality of his training improved day after day. In January, it was for him difficult to run two following days between 3'45" and 3'50" per km, because his legs were stiff and tired after a normal workout. Today, he's not able running slower than 3'40", an sometimes I had to force him to run at regeneration speed, not faster the 3'45".

The increase of his aerobic base gave him the opportunity to have frequent sessions with high volume of km at HM speed (between 2'47" and 2'52" per km) and at Marathon speed (between 2'57" and 3'02" per km), and now these two different speeds are normal in the development of his training.

After this, we have to ask ourself : "Which are the real limits for one athlete of high but not exceptional talent, who has continuity in training, right modulation between hard sessions and recovery, big motivation, ability to grow mentally and as self confidence, AND DO EVERYTHING IN HIGH ALTITUDE ?

And, when we know it's possible this when white and clean, can we really believe that everybody running fast is doped, and EPO can give advantages for athletes REALLY well trained in altitude of 1 minute in 10000m and 4 minutes in Marathon ?

Do you think I can suppose Sondre could run under 2:02 assuming EPO ?

And somebody still has the courage to ask me "which proof you are that EPO doesn't work", continuing with the example of Lombard or Lance Armstrong, without understanding the difference from athletes at different level as talent, motivation and training (IN ALTITUDE) , or from runners and bikers ?

Clean your minds, start to believe in yourselves, and go in hard CLEAN training if are really interested in improving their performances.

Congrats to Moen and you as the coach Renato! :) To me it was no surprise he ran 2.05.38. I told in beforehand that he after the Valencia half in 59.48 should be able to run the marathon in 2 x 59.48 + 5 min = 2.04.36 ! .....and because he is marathon prepared to stay the distance. He has during the year lowered his 5000m down to 13.20 and also been faster at 10000m ......To me this performance was just normal according to his former times at shorter distances and prove once more that mathematics and running results are very closed connected to each other. :)

Also one very,very important thing have now been proven once more......It`s of very high importance to run the distance aerobic work at the runners very best individual pace!!! Moen have now difficulty to run slower than 3.40 min/ km in training you say. It`s like I "preach" all the time.....To reach your optimal capacity as a middle-longdistancer the 3 most important factors to develop are maxVO2-pace, lactic threshold pace and at last the very best individual aerobic power distance pace. Cheers!

COACH J.S