socalcush wrote:
i'll be there trying to break 5 minutes for the first time as a 54 year old, and i'm guessing it'll be a bit of a struggle for me. if i break 5, it won't be by much.
elusive dreams' wrote:
Anyway, big congrats to socalcush, who went sub 5 by a decent margin.
The streak continues. Good job, what was your time?
i think around 4:52-4:53. they haven't posted official times yet, and i'm one of the last runners on the planet that doesn't own a garmin or race with a watch...
cush
i second this sophomore year of hs I ran 1:33 600 2:10 800 4:53 full mile, while only running 19:20 in xc beating my freshman pr by 1s
socalcush wrote:
i think around 4:52-4:53. they haven't posted official times yet, and i'm one of the last runners on the planet that doesn't own a garmin or race with a watch...
cush
That's equivalent to an age-graded sub 4:10 mile. Congrats!
https://m.facebook.com/groups/calcoasttrackclub/permalink/2113623345456485/?refid=18&_ft_=qid.-7338472655202626679%3Amf_story_key.2113623345456485%3Atop_level_post_id.2113623345456485%3Atl_objid.2113623345456485%3Acontent_owner_id_new.100007035071325%3Apage_id.270488296436675%3Asrc.22%3Aphoto_attachments_list.%5B3146940555550416%2C3146940588883746%2C3146940605550411%5D%3Astory_location.6%3Astory_attachment_style.album%3Afilter.GroupStoriesByActivityEntQuery%3Aott.AX-qphx7CYKEkVIV%3Atds_flgs.3%3Apage_insights.%7B%22270488296436675%22%3A%7B%22page_id%22%3A270488296436675%2C%22page_id_type%22%3A%22group%22%2C%22actor_id%22%3A100007035071325%2C%22dm%22%3A%7B%22isShare%22%3A0%2C%22originalPostOwnerID%22%3A0%7D%2C%22psn%22%3A%22EntGroupMallPostCreationStory%22%2C%22post_context%22%3A%7B%22object_fbtype%22%3A657%2C%22publish_time%22%3A1637662950%2C%22story_name%22%3A%22EntGroupMallPostCreationStory%22%2C%22story_fbid%22%3A%5B2113623345456485%5D%7D%2C%22role%22%3A1%2C%22sl%22%3A6%7D%7D&__tn__=%2AW-Rhttp://www.mastersathletics.net/index.php?id=2595elusive dreams' wrote:
elusive dreams.- wrote:
There are almost no indoor meets within a few hundred miles of where I live. I haven't ruled out flying to the Midwest or East Coast, but I'm only going to do so if I'm fairly confident of running a few seconds under 5. I don't want to spend all of that time and money to end up with something like a 5:08.
I've just started a two week taper and will be racing indoors on Dec. 4th.
About two hours after this morning's 1600, I did a solo 400m time trial and ran a ... 65.8. WTF? I may be too optimistic here, but hopefully that means that my mile time will drop by 5-10 seconds once I'm fully rested and get my sub 60 speed back.
2 hours after an all out race is way too soon. Hell, a 400m time trial the day after an all out 1600 would still not give you an accurate reflection of your ability. I wouldn't worry too much about it
I'd try to have a go at a sub 4:40 1500m. There is something about that first lap being only 300m that makes it feel to me like such a shorter race.
elusive dreams wrote:
Every once in a while, there'll be a thread here that debates whether the average person, most people, or almost everyone can run a sub 5 mile given sufficient training. A lot of people say yes, but my personal experience indicates otherwise.
I've tried every possible way short of doping in my quest to get that sub 5 mile - low mileage, high mileage, live high/train low, live low/train high, training barefoot/in flats/in heavier trainers, different diets, etc. I've gotten multiple pacers, had enough sleep, run meets in different weather conditions, tried indoor tracks, run at different times of the day/night, and so on. You name it, I've probably done it (and yes, this included running on pure hate/rage/jealousy - last year, one of my former teammates managed to convince a college girl to run an all-out mile against me. Her PR was a tad under 5, and she wore a shirt that said "You got chicked" on the back. Didn't work - I failed to beat either her or my old PR, though I was on pace for a 4:58 mile at the halfway mark)
I'm in my late 20s, single, and have had plenty of time to train. Over the past couple years, I've pretty much made breaking 5 my life's mission, and the fastest I've run is 5:15.6. Taking EPO, steroids, HGH, and every illicit PED on the planet might get me to 5:03 or 5:02. If there is a dosage high enough to get me under 5, it would probably kill me long before I get near a track.
I can't blame obesity or bad genes for my failure to break 5. It's just an extremely tough time to achieve and a very impressive accomplishment if you have done it. At 5'6" and 112 lbs, I'm skinnier than most distance runners, and I had the muscle and leg speed to run decent times for the shorter distances. And while I never had anywhere near the amount of talent necessary to be an elite, I did have enough talent to win a few high school dual meets. My 400 and 800 PRs are 55 and 2:11.
I'll be the first to admit that the best I can offer is anecdotal evidence and not a scientific study, but if I couldn't break 5, there's no way that most people could. Maybe a 5 minute mile would be possible if you round mile times to the nearest minute and count a 5:29.99 mile as a 5 minute mile. But even that's pushing it.
If your PB is 5:15, it's a bad idea for trying to shoot for a sub 5 mile. PB's don't fall by 4 seconds per lap unless your PB is from when you are out of shape. Try to pace yourself to a 5:10. Once you get your PB in the 5:05 range then we can start thinking about sub 5.
MatthewXCountry wrote:
elusive dreams wrote:
Every once in a while, there'll be a thread here that debates whether the average person, most people, or almost everyone can run a sub 5 mile given sufficient training. A lot of people say yes, but my personal experience indicates otherwise.
I've tried every possible way short of doping in my quest to get that sub 5 mile - low mileage, high mileage, live high/train low, live low/train high, training barefoot/in flats/in heavier trainers, different diets, etc. I've gotten multiple pacers, had enough sleep, run meets in different weather conditions, tried indoor tracks, run at different times of the day/night, and so on. You name it, I've probably done it (and yes, this included running on pure hate/rage/jealousy - last year, one of my former teammates managed to convince a college girl to run an all-out mile against me. Her PR was a tad under 5, and she wore a shirt that said "You got chicked" on the back. Didn't work - I failed to beat either her or my old PR, though I was on pace for a 4:58 mile at the halfway mark)
I'm in my late 20s, single, and have had plenty of time to train. Over the past couple years, I've pretty much made breaking 5 my life's mission, and the fastest I've run is 5:15.6. Taking EPO, steroids, HGH, and every illicit PED on the planet might get me to 5:03 or 5:02. If there is a dosage high enough to get me under 5, it would probably kill me long before I get near a track.
I can't blame obesity or bad genes for my failure to break 5. It's just an extremely tough time to achieve and a very impressive accomplishment if you have done it. At 5'6" and 112 lbs, I'm skinnier than most distance runners, and I had the muscle and leg speed to run decent times for the shorter distances. And while I never had anywhere near the amount of talent necessary to be an elite, I did have enough talent to win a few high school dual meets. My 400 and 800 PRs are 55 and 2:11.
I'll be the first to admit that the best I can offer is anecdotal evidence and not a scientific study, but if I couldn't break 5, there's no way that most people could. Maybe a 5 minute mile would be possible if you round mile times to the nearest minute and count a 5:29.99 mile as a 5 minute mile. But even that's pushing it.
If your PB is 5:15, it's a bad idea for trying to shoot for a sub 5 mile. PB's don't fall by 4 seconds per lap unless your PB is from when you are out of shape. Try to pace yourself to a 5:10. Once you get your PB in the 5:05 range then we can start thinking about sub 5.
MatthewXCountry wrote:
I'd try to have a go at a sub 4:40 1500m. There is something about that first lap being only 300m that makes it feel to me like such a shorter race.
The OP's 5:15 time was from a few years ago. He ran a 4:39 1500 earlier this year with a taper and a 5:05 1600 last week without a taper.
elusive dreams' wrote:
elusive dreams.- wrote:
There are almost no indoor meets within a few hundred miles of where I live. I haven't ruled out flying to the Midwest or East Coast, but I'm only going to do so if I'm fairly confident of running a few seconds under 5. I don't want to spend all of that time and money to end up with something like a 5:08.
I've just started a two week taper and will be racing indoors on Dec. 4th.
Nice, what meet will you be running in?
elusive dreams.- wrote:
I took a 10-15 minute break after the 3:42.59 1200 PR and did a 13x400. I think that elusive sub 5 mile is finally within striking distance.
Your 1200 PR is 3:42?? You're going to need a banked track or an oversized 300m+ track to have any hope of going sub 5 indoors this weekend.
35% chance of a DNS
10% chance of a DNF or a DQ
20% chance he runs 5:08 or slower
20% chance he runs 5:05 - 5:07
10% chance he runs 5:02 - 5:04
4% chance he runs 5:00 - 5:01
1% chance he runs sub 5
OP, if you do surprise us on Saturday and get a sub 5, what are your future running plans? Are you going to train for the 400/800 again? Quit running entirely? Just jog a few miles a week to stay fit?
CA has no indoor meets in December wrote:
elusive dreams' wrote:
I've just started a two week taper and will be racing indoors on Dec. 4th.
Nice, what meet will you be running in?
Sharon Colyear Opener at BU. It's supposed to be an ultra fast track, so we'll see how it goes.
bookie wrote:
35% chance of a DNS
10% chance of a DNF or a DQ
20% chance he runs 5:08 or slower
20% chance he runs 5:05 - 5:07
10% chance he runs 5:02 - 5:04
4% chance he runs 5:00 - 5:01
1% chance he runs sub 5
I just checked in. No chance of a DNS.
elusive dreams, wrote:
bookie wrote:
35% chance of a DNS
10% chance of a DNF or a DQ
20% chance he runs 5:08 or slower
20% chance he runs 5:05 - 5:07
10% chance he runs 5:02 - 5:04
4% chance he runs 5:00 - 5:01
1% chance he runs sub 5
I just checked in. No chance of a DNS.
Hope you crush it!
silvery gold wrote:
elusive dreams, wrote:
I just checked in. No chance of a DNS.
Hope you crush it!
Thanks! Here's the race recap:
~209m (0:38, 36.36" lap).
~409m (1:17, 39.69" lap).
~609m (1:56, 38.41" lap)
~809m (2:34, 38.50" lap)
~1009m (3:13, 38.44" lap)
~1209m (3:51, 37.91" lap)
~1409m (4:27, 36.60" lap)
~1609m (5:03, 36.36" lap)
I felt great the first lap but was feeling pretty terrible by the ~620m mark. I honestly thought about dropping out at that point, which I would have done if I hadn't take the effort to fly across the country the day before. I was off pace, tired, and didn't see how I could salvage this. Maybe it was psychological (5 more laps to go does sound like a lot), maybe it was travel fatigue and not sleeping well the previous night.
In any case, I pressed on and figured I'd rather get a slow time than a DNF. With 400m to go, I looked up at the clock, saw that a PR would still be possible, and then kicked it in. I barely missed getting a sub 5 1600, but I did PR by almost 4 seconds.
So no sub 5, but I thought that it was cool that I got to run on the same track as Yomif Kejelcha did when he set his 3:47 indoor mile WR. Yesterday was perhaps only the third time I've ever run on an indoor track, so it was an exciting experience.
Upon first sight, the banked BU track seems pretty extreme. The curves are awkward to jog on, even worse to walk on, but magically feels natural and comfortable when you're running sub 5 pace and faster. As a side note, everyone had to wear masks when not actively competing, so doing the warmup in that building was pretty claustrophobic when compared to mask-free outdoor meets. I remember feeling quite dizzy at one point while doing a stride.
I'd guess that on average, that track is faster than an outdoor track because you don't have to deal with the unpredictable weather. But it's still slower than an outdoor meet held in perfect weather conditions, perhaps by around 0.5-1.0 seconds/400m. That would put me at a sub 5 1600, but that sub 5 mile would still be a tossup at best. Oh well.
Official results:
https://www.lancertiming.com/results/winter22/BU1204/results_15.htmlGreat effort. Your splits look pretty good. A little fast on the first lap, and some compensation on the second, but the other six were really consistent.
What seems clear is this: you‘re gonna get there. Just gotta stick with it. You‘ve been steadily improving and are now four seconds away. And while rarely is a race perfect, not sleeping well, warming up with a mask, and dealing with an indoor track does add up and your next opportunity will hopefully have fewer obstacles.
Overall you should feel really good about this effort. It‘s a big PR and you can never take those for granted after the first year or two of running. What‘s your plan over the next few months?
elusive dreams,, wrote:
Thanks! Here's the race recap:
~209m (0:38, 36.36" lap).
~409m (1:17, 39.69" lap).
~609m (1:56, 38.41" lap)
~809m (2:34, 38.50" lap)
~1009m (3:13, 38.44" lap)
~1209m (3:51, 37.91" lap)
~1409m (4:27, 36.60" lap)
~1609m (5:03, 36.36" lap)
I'd guess that on average, that track is faster than an outdoor track because you don't have to deal with the unpredictable weather. But it's still slower than an outdoor meet held in perfect weather conditions, perhaps by around 0.5-1.0 seconds/400m.
Not bad, you certainly exceeded most of our expectations.
FWIW, here's how the indoor and outdoor WRs stack up:
Men's 800m indoor: 1:42.67
Men's 800m outdoor: 1:40.91, indoor is 0.88 sec/lap slower
Men's 1000m indoor: 2:14.20
Men's 1000m outdoor: 2:11.96, indoor is 0.90 sec/lap slower
Men's 1500m indoor: 3:31.04
Men's 1500m outdoor: 3:26.00, indoor is 1.34 sec/lap slower
Men's mile indoor: 3:47.01
Men's mile outdoor: 3:43.13, indoor is 0.97 sec/lap slower
Men's 3000m indoor: 7:24.90
Men's 3000m outdoor: 7:20.67, indoor is 0.56 sec/lap slower
Men's 5000m indoor: 12:49.60
Men's 5000m outdoor: 12:35.36, indoor is 1.14 sec/lap slower
Average difference: 0.97 sec/lap
Women's 800m indoor: 1:55.82
Women's 800m outdoor: 1:53.28, indoor is 1.27 sec/lap slower
Women's 1000m indoor: 2:30.94
Women's 1000m outdoor: 2:28.98, indoor is 0.78 sec/lap slower
Women's 1500m indoor: 3:53.09
Women's 1500m outdoor: 3:50.07, indoor is 0.81 sec/lap slower
Women's mile indoor: 4:13.31
Women's mile outdoor: 4:12.33, indoor is 0.24 sec/lap slower
Women's 3000m indoor: 8:16.60
Women's 3000m outdoor: 8:06.11, indoor is 1.40 sec/lap slower
Women's 5000m indoor: 14:18.86
Women's 5000m outdoor: 14:06.62, indoor is 0.98 sec/lap slower
Average difference: 0.91 sec/lap
You were likely in sub 5 1600 shape but not in sub 5 mile shape.
nice job! you'll have lots of all-comers to choose from in january to get that mark.
by the way, on the indoor/outdoor data above: you may be right in terms of outdoor being faster than indoor, but you're not exactly comparing apples to apples here. fitness levels generally go up during the summer outdoor season with the increased focus of professionals on WC/olympic meets, as does competitive depth, since fewer focus on indoors for a variety of reasons (geography, training schedules, etc.). so while data will show that indoor seems slower than outdoor, kids like cooper teare (or galen rupp for that matter) may never match their incredible indoor times on an outdoor track. to get a better comparison, we'd really need to see what el g could have done on these newer indoor tracks AND have him race on one during the summer....
that's my story and i'm sticking to it,
cush
converter wrote:
OP, if you do surprise us on Saturday and get a sub 5, what are your future running plans? Are you going to train for the 400/800 again? Quit running entirely? Just jog a few miles a week to stay fit?
silvery gold wrote:
Great effort. Your splits look pretty good. A little fast on the first lap, and some compensation on the second, but the other six were really consistent.
Overall you should feel really good about this effort. It‘s a big PR and you can never take those for granted after the first year or two of running. What‘s your plan over the next few months?
My next serious attempt is going to be in February. If the weather is decent, it's going to be an outdoor race in CA, if not, I might fly somewhere again for an indoor race if I think I'm in sub 5 shape. From now until then, it's just going to be building mileage and maybe training through some all-comers meets.
If I did go under 5 that day, I would have tried to get the 1500 equivalent outside (4:37.7) and would then have focused on the 800 for the remainder of outdoor season.
My longer term plans are/would have been up in the air whether I got sub 5 or not. If I thought that I'd have a reasonable chance at a PR (actual times, not age-graded times) for anything shorter than a mile, I'd keep training hard for it. But if not, I'd hang up the spikes and just hobby jog 5-10 MPW for the rest of my life to stay fit. Masters running, long distance racing, and road racing just aren't my thing.