Sunday Mail Has More Details on Paula's Blood Values and Off Scores + News She'll Put up £1m for an MRI lie detector

I used to love watching Sebastian Coe run when I was young, he was incredible, but now I feel he has become, like Darth Vader, the evil Lord Coe. I was shocked with what he said about Michael Ashenden, who I would consider to be. THE EXPERT on doping and ABP bloodtest analysis. That was an extremely rude and ignorant response by Coe.

Someone should try to find Ashenden's response...Do you have the whole response, because I remember one of them was stinging....He said that after Liliya Shobukhova's bloodtests were showing very high OFF scores indicating blood manipulation, which should have triggered more targeted and more frequent testing, the response of the IAAF was to STOP TESTING Shobukhova!!!.... You can't test positive if you don't test at all!.... leading up to her last 2011 Chicago Marathon win in 2:18:20, which was the 2nd fastest female ever, after Paula. Liliya still holds the European 5k record of 14:23.75 set on July 19,2008, which is still the fastest non-Kenyan,non-Ethiopian time ever, and won the London 2010 marathon, and the Chicago 2009, 2010,and 2011 marathons, which won her the world marathon majors bonus. After Liliya's multiple year run, another runner named Rita Jeptoo became dominant, winning two Boston and two Chicago marathons in a row, under the guidance of her Italian manager Dr. Frederico Rosa and Italian coach Claudio Berardelli . Unfortunately, Rita also tested positive for EPO in an out of competition test, and will be gone for a while...and Emily Chebet will be banned for a while as well...She is the two time WORLD CHAMPION in cross country...but wait, we have been told that top kenyans don't dope...Does anyone know who Emily Chebet's coach or manager is??? ( It looks like it used to be her husband Edward Muge back in 2013). Claudio Berardelli also used to coach Stanley Biwott, who just won the 2015 NYC marathon....just a coincidence, right????.....

Ashenden has seen the big database of thousands of blood tests, spanning many years...He described some of the results as "grotesque", "life threatening", "dangerous"...so some of those scores were REALLY ABNORMAL....and I would love to see them...The IAAF sure doesn't want anyone to see them...Imagine the names you have always wondered about... Komen (sorry, probably already retired) ...Bekele...El Guerrouj...Paula... Which blood tests would you most like to see???...but of course you can't see them....you wouldn't possibly be able to understand them.....Nothing to see here...move along everyone....back to sleep....

Rosa Associati run 5 camps in Kenya!!! Berardelli ran one of them, but has been let go by Frederico Rosa. Claudio Berardelli coached 2008 Olympic 1500m gold medalist Nancy Jebet Langat, 2013 World 800m Champion Eunice Sum, 2007 800m World Champions Janeth Jepkosgei and Alfred Kirwa, two time NYC marathon and two time London marathon champion Martin Lel, Rotterdam champion and 2:04 marathoner Duncan Kibet, 2015 NYC marathon champion Stanley Biwott, as well as 58:46 half-marathoner Matthew Kisorio (who just returned to competition from his 2 year ban for an anabolic steroid), 800m runner Agatha Jeruto (currently serving 4 year ban for an anabolic steroid positive) and Rita Jeptoo(EPO positive,currently banned for 2 years)....any others anybody can think of???....

Dr. Gabriele Rosa started the Discovery Kenya project(Nike funded?) in 1991. Some of the runners associated with him include Gianni Poli, Moses Tanui, Eric Kimayo,,Victor Rothlin,Martin Lel, Sammy Korir, Paul Tergat, Sammy Wanjiru, Margaret Okayo, Nancy Langat,...

Incredibly,in a Running Times article from Nov.19,2014, "Dr. Rosa-in his own words", by Roger Robinson...there is mention of Dr. Gabriele Rosa discussing the practice of "autotransfusion" with Gianni Poli where he states that he considers it to be a sophisticated method for middle and long distance runners to improve their performance, said "he who wins is the best"...and is of course fiercely against its use.....Hmmmm......

Larkimm,

I'm not sure why you trust Coe. He was working at Fifa and saw nothing. Worked for Diack and saw nothing. His own shady past with Conconi is not disclosed.

If only we could all go through live knowing as little as Coe and a Brosjos and achieve so much.

From one of Larkimm's earlier posts, and taken somewhat out of context

I quote " .... if it was true Coe knew nothing at all about it "

It does seem to be a recurring theme in the career of Lord Coe.

And ironically the first kenyans to benefit from epo were 400m, then just gave up on event,

But epo no work on kenyans.

You make good points. I have lots of concerns about what Ashenden has said. What is the next step to clear u g this up? Perhaps more will come out after the fraud investigation into Diack is done. Can anyone think of another path?

I was never particularly suspicious of Coe before as he comes across as someone intent on 'doing the right thing', but the award of a major championship to Nike's home city without a bidding process just stinks. And if anyone disagrees, then give the French authorities a call to help them with their criminal investigations.

Putting on a innocent face and sounding credible has to be disregarded these days. Facts speak louder than words. And that underpins the whole of this thread - Paula's claims of innocence vs the facts. Some believe she is innocent based on her various statements, other have her down as a doper based on suspicious blood values, large margins of victory, etc.

The outcome of this appeal will further determine the credibility of the efforts to clean up all sports from drugs, not just athletics. This one has been rumbling on for just too long:

http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1032378/outcome-of-operation-puerto-appeals-expected-to-be-announced-in-january

I think the public at large should forget any hope of athletes such as Paula 'coming clean' (assuming of course they are indeed unclean). Lance Armstrong's decision to do this has cost him $millions. Athletics is now a professional sport, and those who have won money at Diamond meets or Marathons using PEDs would likely be bankrupted if they had to return their ill-gotten winnings.

cleans wrote:

The outcome of this appeal will further determine the credibility of the efforts to clean up all sports from drugs, not just athletics. This one has been rumbling on for just too long:

http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1032378/outcome-of-operation-puerto-appeals-expected-to-be-announced-in-january

I think the public at large should forget any hope of athletes such as Paula 'coming clean' (assuming of course they are indeed unclean). Lance Armstrong's decision to do this has cost him $millions. Athletics is now a professional sport, and those who have won money at Diamond meets or Marathons using PEDs would likely be bankrupted if they had to return their ill-gotten winnings.

Wow! I hadn't heard about this. Thanks.

cleans wrote:

I was never particularly suspicious of Coe before as he comes across as someone intent on 'doing the right thing', but the award of a major championship to Nike's home city without a bidding process just stinks. And if anyone disagrees, then give the French authorities a call to help them with their criminal investigations.

Putting on a innocent face and sounding credible has to be disregarded these days. Facts speak louder than words. And that underpins the whole of this thread - Paula's claims of innocence vs the facts. Some believe she is innocent based on her various statements, other have her down as a doper based on suspicious blood values, large margins of victory, etc.

You're absolutely right that scepticism has to be the order of the day. (I fully expect some retorts that I'm not sceptical on the subjects of Coe and Radcliffe - I believe I am, but others will disagree!).

I still reckon there are no facts that tip the balance for me against Coe and Radcliffe, but I am open minded enough to be able to hear them and evaluate them if they come through.

For example, in your post you say you were never suspicious of Coe but the Eugene / Nike decision stinks and you are clearly linking "suspicion of Coe" with the decision. To me I just don't see that any facts presented to us so far bear out that analysis. There is one second hand account in an email which talks about Coe "reaching out" to Diack about Eugene, which could mean many things (some innocent, some less so). But there is no other evidence.

Coe was interviewed on Radio 4 (BBC) yesterday, as reported by the Daily Mail (not usually a source I'd turn to). One of his phrases sums up exactly what I think about sports governance, and why it is impossible to make very personal accusations about his knowledge, complicity or awareness of many of the issues

:-

"Coe conceded he did not know everything that was happening within the IAAF while serving as a vice-president.

'That I'm afraid is the traditional model for sport. Don't predicate sport on well-run FTSE 100 (companies),' he said."

Of course, that doesn't make it right. The model of FTSE-100 (aka "blue chip" companies) in terms of governance probably has to be adopted by sports organisations, for whom many of the senior roles currently are little more than honorary positions. The sport has to be run more professionally, and I still believe that Coe's track record [sic] is one which does recognise that will start the process of necessary changes.

'That deaf dumb and blind kid sure plays a mean pinball'.... was that tune about Seb?

Why doesn't she put up all the money for the lie detector test?.

Who is she waiting on to make this happen?

And Where are the famous frozen samples?

Exactly, if her money is safe put it up herself.... this from 2009....

'When Paula’s tears had dried and she’d pocketed her hefty New York appearance fee, she jetted back to Monaco where she lives in blissful tax exile with her hubby, daughter and estimated £5million fortune.'

... must be worth at least 7 million by now

doping expert wrote:

And Where are the famous frozen samples?

Anyone? Wejo - you've been asked this question directly a dozen times and you simply avoid it.

Not sure what you are trying to say. You really expect him to come out and say he's for blood doping even if he was doing it? But the fact he knows blood doping may have been common back in the day means nothing.

Here is the article:

Nor does it reveal much of Rosa's views on the topical issue of performance enhancing drugs. The most explicit statement comes in a passage where Poli discusses how common the practice of “blood doping” or “autotransfusion” was in the early 1980s (the freezing of the athlete's own blood, re-injected before competition to increase the red corpuscle count).

It should not be a secret that many of the runners participated in “autotransfusion.” That technique had not been banned yet by the International Olympic Committee, so could not be declared to be doping. But Gabriele Rosa, a doctor, was fiercely against it, and considered “autotransfusion” to be a sophisticated method for middle distance and long distance runners to improve their performance. Gabriele Rosa repeated to me and my circle of friends, “he who wins is the best.” Of course, we understood that I should not have to bow my head in shame in front of anyone.

Please stop roping me in with Coe. LRC is staunchly anti-doping. But I must not know a lot, explain Conconi to me.

Of course I don't expect him to come out and say he was for blood transfusions even if he was doing them. I was being sarcastic. The point is that Dr. Gabriele Rosa was aware many years ago that blood manipulation was effective and was openly talking about it. He would probably also be aware that EPO would be an effective way to manipulate blood, as well. He started his Discovery Kenya camps in 1991, with freedom to use EPO on Kenyan runners with absolutely ZERO CHANCE of getting caught if he decided to, at the beginning of the EPO era, and the coincidental huge boom in Kenyan running. He and his son Frederico have been there ever since, with 5 training camps today. During this 25 year period, there has essentially been ZERO DRUG TESTING in Kenya for the entire time, until just recently, and they have worked with many big name Kenyans. They are just starting to try to implement a real testing program now in late 2015!!!

Berardelli is a close associate of the Rosa's for many years, ran one of their camps..has multiple athletes banned for doping, including big names Rita Jeptoo and Matthew Kisorio (who said there was widespread doping in Kenya after he was caught) ...many other Kenyan positives recently...accusations of bribes and covered up positive doping tests by top Kenyan officials..Seppelt documentary covering some of this..Head of Athletics Kenya being investigated... connect the dots....It's not that hard, is it???...The percentage of money that the coaches and managers and corrupt officials would take in from all the money that their runners are winning in races around the world would be quite considerable...Do you really think the "Discovery Kenya" Project(Nike funded?) is just about the sweet, nice Italian doctors, managers, and coaches relocating to Kenya in 1991, out of the goodness of their hearts, to help out the young and talented Kenyans to dominate the world, and win lots of medals and MONEY over a 25 year span...in a completely altruistic and generous spirit of service to their fellow man......maybe......but based on history....probably not.......

Also, go search on the internet for some photos of Frederico Rosa, and just see if you get a real trustworthy vibe from him.....I don't......but that's just my subjective, intuitive feeling.....

wejo wrote:

LRC is staunchly anti-doping.

Doping is LR's #1 passion.