If you want to put foreign runners into the context of a citizen coming from another country coming to the U.S. strictly to compete and get an education at an American school, then Queens does not have any foreigners.
If you want to put foreign runners into the context of a citizen coming from another country coming to the U.S. strictly to compete and get an education at an American school, then Queens does not have any foreigners.
XCobserver wrote:
...and who the hell is Aaron Brown??? Oh, I get it, Wetmore and his Colorado guys couldn't be bothered to know the real name of one of the best guys in DII...gimmee a
break.
yea that's crap, those guys know Braun by now.
[quote]WSC What? wrote:
WSC looked pretty good today. Where are the haters now???
If you consider Adams had 4 runners ahead of WSC's #2 to be pretty good then the Mountaineers are still in pretty bad shape. Ian ran a subpar race for the calibur runner that he is, and still no Clark. The last time WSC ran this prroly this time of year they barely finished a team (let alone 5th) I have said it before, and I will say it again WSC will be lucky to finish in the top 5 and thus not make the podium in Slippery Rock. The team just doesn't have what it takes to compete this year and the race at the shootout proved that. They only finished the way they did because of the bs scoring system that CU has for their own NCAA qualifying system. This isn't the type of team that will have mediocre performances and then turn it on when it matters most. The next 3 races will show that. They aren't tough enough to deal with what is necessary to compete at the highest level in DII. My prediction is Pennel will finish top 10 and the next runner will be aroud 20-25th. I am brave enough to post on here and make such a prediction, so if I am proven wrong I will admit just that, but the fact is I am just not buying it. Maybe next year with their runners having the sour taste of a poor performance in their mouths the Mountaineers will be able to put something together, but the fact still remains that this is more than a down year for WSC.
Check the facts,
I think you are mistaken about the polish guy. He is by no means as good as Kern. He ran close to him early in the year when Kern was not running that hard. Kern is a good bit better than him and will continue to be. Also Cheriyout is not going to be able to close that gap up any better. For Harding they have a great 1,2 punch and they have a very competitive 3,4 but the 5th is what is separating them and ACU and Adams.
Check your facts buddy, they ran way better this year than some past years.
Western times were significantly better for them at the CU Shootout than 2 years ago when they got 3rd at NATS to very very good Adams St. and Abilene teams.
2008 (this weekend) Top 5 averaged 26:19
2007 Top 5 averaged 26:04 (finished 2nd at Nats)
2006 Top 5 averaged 26:32 (finished 3rd at Nats)
Just because Adams is so dang amazing this year that doesn't automatically mean Western sucks...
Its hard to compare average times from past teams to today. Division II, as a whole, has become much more competitive then most other years. It seems Adams and Abilene are in a higher league then most other teams, with Harding coming close. But don't forget about several other teams who are very competitive right now and can, on the right day, make the top 5 this year. You have Chico, Mines, Anchorage, and Queens all going after that top five mark. Times mean nothing from years past to what it means now. 3 years ago was certainly not as competitive as today, not just team wise, but individually, as well.
I agree. It was just a point to show that Western isn't really in the crapper like this guy is making it out to be...
Sure D2 competition is tougher than a few years ago and maybe Western just hasn't stepped up their game at the same time but that doesn't automatically mean they are worse and past years.
Ya, Western is worst than years past. They used to have at least 2 sub 14:00 guys, some years they had like 5 that could run near that.
They have none now, and two guys that could run 14:10ish.
Agreed, i believe the rest of Division 2 has stepped up their game, whether it is recruiting or runners just becoming that much better but overall it seems everyone else is stepping up and Western is staying where they were, which could come back to hurt them. I am surely no Western Hater, they are a very strong team and they have shown that year in and year out, but it seems they have kind of leveled off and everyone else has gotten better.
Check Your Facts wrote:
Check your facts buddy, they ran way better this year than some past years.
My friend check your facts, and check your tradition. I don't know if you are a student/ alumni at Western or just a loyal fan, but at that school finishing lower than a National Title is considered a low point. That is the precedence that has been set by the older guys and has been a fact since 1999. Secondly you are basing your argument from past results and not on current competition. Adams State is clearly the cream of the crop this year, and there is no reason why WSC should not be up there, in the summer/fall Gunnison is a far superior place to train. THey have access to places like Hartman Rocks, trail 401, the upper/lower loops in Crested Butte, and several areas to run directly behind their school. Teams like Harding, ACU, Chico, and even Alaska Anchorage are way better this year than in years past. Having only one runner break 26 on the course at the shootout is not going to get it done in Slippery Rock. The one thing missing from WSC this year is toughnes and depth at the top and that is going to crush them at D2 Champs when there are 120 or so of the "est" runners in D2. I am not a WSC hater I am just a realist. Look at the current and not the past. D2 is far stronger this year than in the past, there are several teams and a lot of at large runners that will go and further displace them from the top echelon teams in scoring, thus keeping them off the podium.
Western is not as good as normal. We know this. Yes they will finish top 5 at national and if they finish worse then first they will be disappointed. It's just the way it is as you mentioned. Does anyone realize that like Adams, Western's top 5 are all underclassmen? They are actually all sophmores. I doubt western is done, I think it's more that they are young....
Western isn't that tough anymore? Where's the evidence? From what I have heard Pennel, Brown, Ahonen, and Rasmussen are all really tough guys who work pretty darn hard.
Now Donnan, I dunno, I have heard he is weak and never trains much.
I have been on here before predicting that Western is going to have an off year---and I continue to believe that is true...But an off year for Western in the past 10 years would mean finishing anywhere out of the top 3.
They finally race Donnan at the Shoot-out and he was not very good. They have had this situation before with a top guy who was injured---look at as recently as Hogarth--and came back to race fairly well at nationals. I do not think they have the horses to make a run at the top three and I see them out of the top five this year.
As for Donnan not being tough---I do not know him at all...but I do know that I have seen him race and he has impressed me as someone with balls when it comes to racing.
Anyone who witnessed Donnan's finish at Pomona would not question his "toughness". I don't know how he stayed on his feet.
How about UC-San Diego? They killed the competition at Pre-Nats and put up a hell of an average on an overall tough course. I could see them competing for the top 5 teams
As much as I love the Tritons and was stoked to see them pull down a win against some strong teams, that is not going to happen.
They have to focus on trying to simply make it back to SRU in November.
Chico, Alaska, Western Washington, Western Oregon are all hunting for the three spots that will come out of the West. UCSD will have to run really well to make it out of the Region.
So, much love to UCSD but talk of a top 5 is really just someone trolling to get them ripped up on this thread. No need.
Yeah,
It looks like a three way fight for the last spot between UCSD, Western Washington, and Western Oregon. Western Washington is rated higher, but it will be on UCSD's home course.
Quite bizarre that the current year's qualifiers are based on the previous year's results. I suppose it makes things easier for officials than the Div. 1 qualifying system.
has adams and western ever not been 1-2 at rmac conference?
It would go all the way back to the mid 90's when John Kiernan took over for Joe Vigil at Adams and decimated the team in two years time---Adams got like 4th or 5th in conference in 1995 (after winning nationals in 1994 with Vigil's holdovers under Kiernan)...Before that it would go back even further to the NAIA days of the early 80's when New Mexico Highlands and Univ. of Southern Colorado (now CSU-Pueblo)competed for second best in the RMAC behind Adams and Western had not yet developed as a cross country power.
what i want to know is how ECU is ranked in the top 25? theyve had teams from their conference and region beat them who are ranked below them