The horse is now dead. Can we stop beating it?
The horse is now dead. Can we stop beating it?
"En sak är säker: du är definitivt inte från Sverige!"
-nej, nej. familij kommar fran skaepsund. jag kommar fran minnesota!
jtupper wrote:
I better start writing all this stuff down before it gets lost.
Jack, this is definitely a book you need to write, just all of your great stories. I'd be the first in line to buy it.
Didn't Ryan run 4:26 as a then Sophomore Record?
I ran 4:28 as a sophomore...of course I only improved one second in the next two years..:)
Alan
No way should this Horse should be put down. !!
I have contributed nothing here, but decided to jump on and say that Jim Ryun also had his fans here in New Zealand.
I was a High Schooler when he was finishing up HS and we tried to follow everything he did. (In terms of results not so much training) When his Book was published in 1967 I made a special trip to town to get a copy. I still read it periodically.
In early 1972 he and Jerry Lindgren came out to NZ and ran a couple of races. After Jim had run his 2 miles I lined up with all the other adoring fans and got his autograph. We were like little kids !!!!
It is really neat to get some of the insights here about the what/where/ and whys, especially those like Dr Daniels who were there.
Drew, great to see your input as well.
Lets keep it rolling team.
Didn't Ryan run 4:26 as a then Sophomore Record?
I ran 4:28 as a sophomore...of course I only improved one second in the next two years..:)
Alan[/quote
Ryun started out his soph. year with a 4:26 mile, but was down to 4:08 in a post season meet, after his soph. year.
don't feel bad....I ran 4:24 as a soph.....4:22 as a jr .....and 4:24 as a senior.....I did run alot faster in college, however; but I had my doubts after my senior year. (I figured out a lack of base/high, fall mileage was the missing ingredient).
[quote
Ryun started out his soph. year with a 4:26 mile, but was down to 4:08 in a post season meet, after his soph. year.
[/quote]
It was 4:07.8
drewr wrote:
Other PRs-Ned ran 2:59 for 3/4s, I ran 3:02. Ned ran 1:51 for 800, I was 1:53 high. Needless to say, we were no Jim Ryuns. Ned did win state his senior year in the mile in 4:19 and was third in 800 in 1:55 high. The two of us laugh about it all the time as we were running maybe 20-30 miles a week.
Thanks for the info. Hey, did you ever compare your training to what your dad did in high school? What did you think? How did you deal with the huge difference? Was the training your dad did just unfathomable to you guys?
jtupper wrote: Salazar and benoit had nearly identical max values (78+ for both), but clearly Alberto ran faster than Joanie, as easily explained by differences in economy. Both also had 4.0 lactate accumulations at 88% of respective maxes.
How did Gerry Lindgen test?
[quote]Slower Miler wrote:
If anyone could give a sample of what Ryun did to drop that much time that would be great. I've been running a lot more, running two-three times a day recently, and I really want to get better at the mile. I don't mind going crazy with the track work, or mileage either.
[quote]
Well, although it's hard to imagine, Ryun was running 110 miles a week his 2nd year running.
How someone who had only been running 18 months could handle that much mileage is beyond understandng. Most runners, even if they've been training consistently for years couldn't handle that much physically.
I dunno, I suppose if your body is naturally strong enough to run 4:07 after less than a year of running, then maybe you are just naturally strong enough to also handle incredible workloads at an early stage.
Exactly equal to Ryun in ml/kg; naturally a lot lower absolute VO2, but that with his much lighter body mass brought him right up there. Unfortunately no economy measures back in the 60s -- I do have economy when they were all 50 years old, but not at my fingertips. I remember Gerry telling me once that he went out in 53 in a mile ("boy, did I die -- 4:36"), but his best 400 was some years later at 52 -- the last lap of a 5k
Perry Mason wrote:
As to Ryun being trained wrong etc, his kids had more speed but ran 30 seconds slower for the mile. Heck, he ran 4:07.8 in his first year of the mile in 10th grade.
Did they ever run faster than this?
Really if his living in the past kids think they knew any better than why did they fail to run any faster than they did?
Ryun tried many times to run a faster pace and he failed.
His talent was in the last lap kick but he was not good at holding a fast even pace all the way. Every time he tried to do this the doors came off, and this is how Kip Keino destroyed him in Mexico City, 1968. Oh yeah and Liquori, who was not as fast as Ryun, destroyed his kick by extending the kick to two laps.
Ryun ran as fast as he was able to run, and he was not able to run any faster than the times that he ran.
He never would have run any faster than he did, and he didn't.
Excellent points!
Well, at least we now know we have two completely ignorant posters on this thread. . . .
boy, you're not kidding. Perry Mason and dang guy are complete idiots. Ever here that Mexico in '68 was at altitude? What a couple of losers.
Well, at least we now know we have two completely ignorant posters on this thread. . . .[/quote]From mosh pits<3
Exactly. Pretty much every word "Perry" wrote is wrong.
From having followed Ryun's career, I'd say the things that Perry said are correct.
Hard to disagree, since most of those points are right on this thread.
Take a look at Ryun's splits from his 3:51.1
Make that three ignorant posters.
Mexico City-altitude, Ben Jipcho taking out the first 800.
Look at dad's 1967 1500m WR. He and Keino basically kicked the last 1200m. Jack, if you're still on this thread, correct me if I am wrong, but dad's last 1200m was 2:47ish. I think that's a fairly sustained kick and speaks to great strength. Take his Dusseldorf 1500m (3:38) where he kicked a 50 flat last 400m, 36.4 300m. Some watches had him at 49 high for the last 400m. That's both ends of the spectrum, fellas.
First 400 was 61 something, which means at least 100m of the final 1200 was at that slower pace, but he still went through the final 1200 in 2:46.37 (55.46 per 400 pace). I think I have calculated right -- one of these days I must get a calculator and quite doing these things in my head. In checking one of the storage sites in my brain I also came across Jim's first mile 4:14) in a 8:25 (or something like that) 2-mile, same weekend (different meet) Gerry went out in 4:13 on the way to his 12:53 3mile. It was quite windy in Lindgren's race and Moore stayed with him for a couple laps (prompting Bowerman to call out, "I sure hope you know what you are doing.") After the race, when asked if the wind had bothered him, Gerry's comment was, "No, it gave me something to run against."
Thread Reader wrote:
From having followed Ryun's career, I'd say the things that Perry said are correct.
Hard to disagree, since most of those points are right on this thread.
Oh come on! If I remember correctly, Ryun and Keino met 4 times prior to the professional circus of the early 70s and Ryun won 3 of these 4 races. In 1966, he took on Keino at the Kenyan's "ideal" distance--2 miles--and beat him in a new US record time. In 1967, he absolutely trounced him in the LA 1500, setting a new WR by 2.5 seconds. In London, the same year, he again trounced Keino in a mile, despite having to set the pace himself over the last half mile (this is on Youtube and is essential viewing!). Keino won at Mexico City in 1968, of course, but given the altitude factor and the fact that Keino ran out of his head (a lifetime best by a very large margin....and at 7400 ft. altitude!), this is definitely the "odd" race of the series. The historical evidence is crystal clear: in this late 60s period, when not running at extreme altitude, Keino COULD NOT beat Ryun. Period. End of story.