Who are some names of least known great distance runners?

Living in the Past:

Yes, I was in Japan and they televise Fukuoka, the entire race without commercial--hardly any up-close-and-personal story with piano music. They show leaders, once in a while middle packs, once in a while personal profile...

Incidentally, the following year, 1975, Fukuoka was another great battle between Drayton and Chettle of Australis. Rodgers was third. In drizzling rain, Drayton was seeking the second win (he won earlier, like 1969? also in rain, beating Ron Hill). Then somewhere around 30k (I recall rain got harder then), this big guy with long hair, wearing plain white singlet, complete unknown, came up and passed Drayton. As he passed Drayton, they looked at each other for a slipt second. You could almost see Drayton's surprise! I think Chettle had something like 30~50 yard lead. Once in a while they showed close up of Drayton and you could tell he was hurting. Gritting his teeth, looking down once in a while... But the lead didn't increase. Slowly, ever so slowly, Drayton closed the gap. Coming around the corner at 2k to go, Drayton finally reeled him back and, as he passed Chettle somewhere around 1k to go, he ducked his head down and went. Chettle couldn't respond. Drayton sprinted (of course, his style just doesn't look like a "sprint") to the finish in 2:10:04, very respectable time even today, with Chettle, complete unknown till then, in 2:10:20. Rodgers, Boston winner, was a distance third, completely spent. I remember Drayton tried to put his pants on and couldn't hold his stance and fell down. That's how spent he was. One of the guttsiest performances I've ever seen.

Thanks for the clarification about Liebenberg's alma mater. I knew I was sticking my neck out on that one, since I went by memory and haven't thought about him in 34 years. There's always someone lurking who can correct an error. One of the great thing about this forum is all of the collective knowledge that it brings to bear. There's often one or more individuals who know more about a subject than the poster himself.

Wow, that's another vivid description of a Fukuoka race. Thanks, Nobby. You have a knack for bringing these things to life, not to mention an excellent memory. I can almost visualize Drayton in that race based on the information you provided. You were fortunate to see those races, especially without the distraction of background music, cultural interludes, and commentary by someone like Erich Segal.

You're right that Drayton won in 1969, beating Ron Hill. He insulted his hosts by leaving his trophy behind in his hotel room. So I'm surprised he got invited back, even six years later. Drayton always struck me as a bit ornery and moody. I found that persona appealing as a teenager, whereas Prefontaine's boasts about being unstoppable were simply annoying.

I was glad to see Pre finish out of the medals in Munich. He was lucky that the German police kept Yifter from competing in the 5,000 meters final. Yifter tried to enter at the wrong gate, which apparently raised some kind of red flag after the massacres; otherwise Pre would have finished fifth. He was no match for Yifter's kick.

I enjoy your posts and race descriptions very much Nobby.

The Canadian marathon record is currently listed as being 2:10.09 run by Jerome Drayton on 7 Dec 75 in Fukuoka, Japan

Orville:

You're right. I think it was 2:10:08 point something and now we round it up. But, really, what a guttsy performance! Surprised that it still stands as Canadian record. There was a very good distance runner from Canada in late 70s or early 80s...Butler, wasn't that his name? A bit upright stiff but a good runner.

Living in the Past:

Yeah, I forgot about that leaving trophy story. But Fukuoka officials understand the good ones. Drayton, of course, came back, I believe, in 1976 after montreal. They had Cielpinski as the Olympic champion (finishing 3rd) and Ian Thompson who were seeking for redemption after he didn't even make the British Olympic team (finishing 2nd). That was more decisive win for Drayton. He was in total control. I ran in "regular" sunglasses which was a bit of a big deal in Japan at the time. It was somewhere around 2:11 but it was rather a hot day too. Besides Shorter (four in a row) and Seko (three in a row and one more), Drayton has the most win at Fukuoka with three.

I'm trying to remember a bit of a history of Fukuoka here (without checking references). I believe Rodgers won 77, wearing dolphin striped shorts. I believe it was his 6th marathon of the year, yet he won it very handily (though he looked a bit worn out) in 2:10:55. The Russian in a hat was second. Rodgers pulled his famous "Boston trick" by stopping to take a sip of water at 40k mark. Seko debuted the international marathon here by finishing 5th.

78 saw the rise of Seko. Rodgers came back as a defending champ. He was very confident and was wearing headband given by his Japanese friends, Ondekoza, the Japanese demon drum group. He only managed 6th place. Shigeru Soh and Gary Bjorklund took off and pushed the pace. Seko waited till 35k and won it easily. Seko was overjoyed with emotion, ran straight into Nakamura's arms and cried. Seko would win two more times in a row.

In 81, Seko decided to skip Fukuoka (I have no idea why), giving another great Japanese a chance to win any marathon title--Kunimitsu Ito. Now here's unknown great marathon runner from Japan. His PR is 2:07 something at Beijin behond Kodama's then national record. He has so many sub-2:10s or 10s and 11s; yet he NEVER won any marathon race. Anyways, so he thought this would be his year. Then came a big guy from downunder by the name of Robert de Castella. He ran the course in the actual official world best time of 2:08:15 (I believe...). Then the following year, no Seko, no Deek. Then who? Paul Ballinger! Anybody even remember this guy? He ran 2:10:40 something and took 82 title.

Then I sort of lost track... Good times.

I guess I made quite a few typo there... But, no, I did NOT lose track! 1983 Fukuoka! What a race it was! Salazar came as then the world record holder with 2:08:13 (short course). He was ready to blow the rest of the world. Tiny Tanzanian, Ikangaa, lead almost the entire way with Salazar (looking very worried the entire way), both Soh brothers, Seko and, who else? Kunimitsu Ito. They ran as a pack till 40k mark and then Ikangaa pulled away. He looked like he was sprinting the whole way but he simply lengthened his strides (I don't know how...) and very smoothly increased the pace. I still remember that moment; Seko was instructed to follow Salazar, the world record holder. Salazar, as I said, looked worried all the way and, Seko simply glanced at Salazar (he later said that Salazar's face was covered with salt=dried sweat and didn't look strong), shifted the focus on Ikangaa and left the rest of the group and chased Ikangaa. Last mile was a two-men race with Ikangaa desperately trying to shake Seko off, Seko simply sticking to Ikangaa...until 120m to go. The last curve of the track, Seko simply EXPLODED. Bang, the race was over just like that. Incidentally, Nakamura told Seko that he would win by sprinting in the last 100m. The story goes that he watched the race on TV in his hotel room about 10k or so and fell asleep saying that it's going to go as he envisioned. Shigeru Soh, the older of the twin brothers, fell back a bit a mile to go but came back strong and took third followed by the younger, Takeshi for fourth place. I can't remember if Salazar took fifth or Ito fifth and followed by Salazar but he was a beaten man--think about it; he was shooting for the gold medal for LA Olympics and yet the entire Olympic team for Japan (Seko, Soh brothers) came ahead of him--easily! He would of course finish 5th or 6th at Rotterdam behind Deek and Lopes and others. I remember Lydiard saying that Salazar was a good American runner but not tested internationally. With fairness to him, he was already getting some physical problems but that was a tough pill to swallow. I still think Salazar was one of the most exciting marathoners of the 80s but marathon, when it comes down to it, is who wins, not how fast.

84 I guess was the rise of Nakayama; followed by Hiroshima World Cup marathon in April of 1985 where we saw head-to-head battle of Nakayama and Djibouti's Salah--and that was the first international race I actually saw in my own eyes. What a battle it was! Of course, the world record for marathon was 2:08:05 by Steve Jones from previous October at Chicago. They were world record pace and two men battling it out. I was watching the race on TV at 35k mark (coffee shop where they kept bringing us a cup of green team--later I learnt that it was a Japanese custom of telling us "You've been here too long. Get the hell out!"); rushed back to the stadium to witness the world record NOT being broken by only a few seconds! What was Salah's time? 2:08:08 or something? Nakayama set the national record of 2:08:15. Djibouti took the country title with another guy, Robure? finishing up high as well.

Now I lost track... Shintaku was the winner in 85 or 86? I do remember Fukuoka 87, Seoul's Olympic trial. Nakayama was angry with the federation's reaction to Seko's not being able to participate the trial so he wanted to show. He ran sub-15 (for 5k) pace upto 25k in the freezing rain condition. He was like Steve Jones at Chicago in 86; all by himself after 2k. He won it easily in 2:08:18 but, if it was a bit warmer (it really WAS freezing rain condition), he would have set the world record.

Living in the Past wrote:

You're right that Drayton won in 1969, beating Ron Hill. He insulted his hosts by leaving his trophy behind in his hotel room. So I'm surprised he got invited back, even six years later.

One of the reasons I've heard for leaving trophies and plaques behind is they get valued as art and the runners are liable to pay import duty on the value of this "artwork'.............

Your descriptions of these marathons are great. Did you see Paul Ballingers 2:10 ?. In NZ we know he ran it but we had no commentary or TV news about it. Just a picture in the Newspaper.

In fact add him to this list. He, along with Jack Foster hold the local marathon record here in Rotorua, both the only ones under 2:18. Just about every decent kiwi runer has had a crack at this race and very few under 2:20 (that includes Oly medallists).

That makes sense wineturtle. I had two fair sized trophies with me when I arrived at Canadian customs the day after Boston 1962. They asked for their value. When I asked why they said that I would have to pay duty. After some discussion with the agent and his superior, I told them that I would just leave them there and head home. When I mentioned that I would call the newspapers when I got home, they let me through with no duty.

Also, I found that lugging those cumbersome things around was a pain. I later recycled them anyhow.

Kim:

Unfortunately no. Deek's race and Ballinger's race are the ones I did miss. It's funny, when people here 2:18 today they don't think anything of it, yet they have NO idea what kind of course you guys are racing... Rotorua maraton, incidentally, was my first marathon (though unofficial). Arthur told me to just jump in and run as a part of my training. I did 3-hour run a week before, 2:30 on Tuesday and 2:45 on Thursday and off to Rotorua with Ray Puckett on Friday, the race on Sunday. I broke 3 hours! My claim of fame: I ran my first marathon in Rotorua 5 seconds faster than Derek Clayton's first marathon! We went for an hour's run the next day around famous Jack Foster's bush track and dipped ourselves in jacuzzi. I was running tip-toe all the way!

Living in the past,

Was the Austrailian magazine "Athletics Coach"?

Was Scott (Neville Scott)?

Canadian Butler (Peter)?

Neil Cusack East Middle Yennessee State (?) Great cross country runner NCAA & AAU, Bostom marathon winner, if memory serves me did well in Euro marathon one year.

Gordon Minty EMU won AAU 6 mmile in 73(?)

Mick Morris Wales/ University of Utah did well in Commnwaelth games steeple.

Luis Hernandez BYU runner, did well alos in XC.

Domingo Tibaduiza multiple Olympian from Columbia, solid 10K, marathon and road credentials, highly respected competitior and true gentleman of the sport

I second Peter Butler short but solid career, popped a 2:10 marathon. Easy to talk to and willing to shre training ideas.

Yeah, that sounds right. Athletics Coach. But I didn't subscribe until 1971 and Neville Scott was well before my time. Bill Scott is the guy I'm thinking of. He was billed as the new promise for Australia.

Hodgie-san remembers. Here is his report of a 1979 race in Sidney, Australia, called City to Surf. Hodgie-san was invited after he won Bay to Breakers that year:

"I ran the first part of the course quite recklessly and was really suffering at the 12 kilometer mark of the fourteen kilometer race. I was aware that someone was gaining on me. I was holding on desperately, but the Australian runner Bill Scott (2:11, 27:55) swept past and beat me handily. I was disappointed but knew that I had run well to finish second."

http://www.bunnhill.com/BobHodge/rtp.htm

Neville Scott was from New Zealand, I think.

This thread has more on them, and no-one contradicts that he was a kiwi.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=970480

He died early last year. See his obit here:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/event/story.cfm?c_id=508&objectid=10007796

Good short description of the historical NZ running milieu

http://www.coolrunning.co.nz/articles/2003a001.html

By the way, Bob Hodge's website has a couple of names for this thread. Paul Gompers and Tony Staynings. Staynings made me think of the British 10k runner Gary Staines. Staines's personal best was 27:48.

Neville Scott died perhaps a couple of years ago. I believe that Bill Scott got into the 27:40s for the 10,000. I remember reading about him wanting to get Ron Clarke's national record, but of course, he never did.

Did John Halbertsadt get on here, as wer'e doing South Africans? And how about Johann Halvorsen of Norway.

Thanks for the link to Neville Scott's obituary, which actually mentions his alcoholism. I recall reading 35 years ago in Murray Halberg's biography (A Clean Pair of Heels) that Scott was phenomenally talented but that he used to drink about 18 beers a day, or something like that. But he lived to be 69 before succumbing to cancer.

I don't think Halberstadt has been mentioned. He's one of the names I considered posting but never got around to. Didn't he run for some American college in California?

How about Paul Craig of Canada? He was a 1500-meter specialist who ran for the University of Texas and finished 11th in the Olympic 1500 at Montreal. I think his best time was 3:38.