Teams can already get practice on the course if they come to Firman (something none of the Oregon or Washington teams do for some reason) although the Idaho teams still undoubtedly have an advantage.
I like that Eagle Island is a tough course, even one that's quite technical. Far too many teams are moving towards blisteringly fast courses because they want to put up fast marks for everyone to see. I'm not trying to call out anyone, but Rose city was a joke this year because of how short it was, and if I'm not mistaken it's Nike Twilight that finishes on a track.
Aside from not catering to a weaker mentality that's only chasing fast times, Eagle Island is great because we have SOOOOOO much historical data. We know that CDA is really legit this year, looking for a top 8, even if most of the rankings don't know that yet. We only know this because we can look back and compare the times and team averages from year to year.
It would take 4-5 years of the new course in Washington before we got any real historical precedent. I don't think that's a good thing.
On a side note, if the course does get moved, I really think it should be in Montana. Bozeman is maybe the best team in the last 10 years in the region, and Montana continues to impress me each year at how well their teams and individuals end up doing. I'm sure we could find a state park that would make the course unique and even a bit techinical, without making it as "dangerous" (although I don't really think IT IS dangerous) as Eagle Island.
Teams can already get practice on the course if they come to Firman (something none of the Oregon or Washington teams do for some reason) although the Idaho teams still undoubtedly have an advantage.
I like that Eagle Island is a tough course, even one that's quite technical. Far too many teams are moving towards blisteringly fast courses because they want to put up fast marks for everyone to see. I'm not trying to call out anyone, but Rose city was a joke this year because of how short it was, and if I'm not mistaken it's Nike Twilight that finishes on a track.
Aside from not catering to a weaker mentality that's only chasing fast times, Eagle Island is great because we have SOOOOOO much historical data. We know that CDA is really legit this year, looking for a top 8, even if most of the rankings don't know that yet. We only know this because we can look back and compare the times and team averages from year to year.
It would take 4-5 years of the new course in Washington before we got any real historical precedent. I don't think that's a good thing.
On a side note, if the course does get moved, I really think it should be in Montana. Bozeman is maybe the best team in the last 10 years in the region, and Montana continues to impress me each year at how well their teams and individuals end up doing. I'm sure we could find a state park that would make the course unique and even a bit techinical, without making it as "dangerous" (although I don't really think IT IS dangerous) as Eagle Island.
Firman has been very warm since at least 2018, and it falls the week after Woodbridge/The Mook, the same weekend as Nike Portland, the weekend before Nike Twilight. Between the heat, the dust, where it falls on the schedule, there being slight elevation, no one really liking the course... I can see why it isn't a big deal with the Oregon and Washington schools.
I think we will see more Idaho schools move away from running Bob Firman unless it's the state course that year. If NXR moves away from it, I could see it essentially killing it being a big meet because you likely won't see the Montana, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, and Wyoming teams have any real reason to travel to it. It's also really damning if Nike yanks NXR from your course.
Teams can already get practice on the course if they come to Firman (something none of the Oregon or Washington teams do for some reason) although the Idaho teams still undoubtedly have an advantage.
I like that Eagle Island is a tough course, even one that's quite technical. Far too many teams are moving towards blisteringly fast courses because they want to put up fast marks for everyone to see. I'm not trying to call out anyone, but Rose city was a joke this year because of how short it was, and if I'm not mistaken it's Nike Twilight that finishes on a track.
Aside from not catering to a weaker mentality that's only chasing fast times, Eagle Island is great because we have SOOOOOO much historical data. We know that CDA is really legit this year, looking for a top 8, even if most of the rankings don't know that yet. We only know this because we can look back and compare the times and team averages from year to year.
It would take 4-5 years of the new course in Washington before we got any real historical precedent. I don't think that's a good thing.
On a side note, if the course does get moved, I really think it should be in Montana. Bozeman is maybe the best team in the last 10 years in the region, and Montana continues to impress me each year at how well their teams and individuals end up doing. I'm sure we could find a state park that would make the course unique and even a bit techinical, without making it as "dangerous" (although I don't really think IT IS dangerous) as Eagle Island.
Firman has been very warm since at least 2018, and it falls the week after Woodbridge/The Mook, the same weekend as Nike Portland, the weekend before Nike Twilight. Between the heat, the dust, where it falls on the schedule, there being slight elevation, no one really liking the course... I can see why it isn't a big deal with the Oregon and Washington schools.
I think we will see more Idaho schools move away from running Bob Firman unless it's the state course that year. If NXR moves away from it, I could see it essentially killing it being a big meet because you likely won't see the Montana, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, and Wyoming teams have any real reason to travel to it. It's also really damning if Nike yanks NXR from your course.
Between all my kids and living in Idaho I’ve been to a lot of meets there. There are really only two major issues:
1) the merge and first corner need to not be a pinch point. I think that was mostly fixed a few years ago, but they need to be careful with it.
2) the bigger issue is the rough terrain for the start and finish. IMO it is usually downright dangerous and unacceptable. I know of one broken leg it caused (hole) and saw a kid lose when he tripped on the homestretch.
Grooming the field annually and extensively has to be a priority every year or they shouldn’t race on it.
Does anyone know what the rules are if a team qualifies for NXN, but a runner is sick or injuered between now and nationals. Do they have to run with only 6 or can they bring up another runner that ran in the open race to make 7? Thanks!
The new cross country facility being built in Spokane Valley is going to be fantastic! The NCAA West Region for 2027 has already been awarded to Spokane.
History? Pfft. A purpose built facility that is wired for TV/streaming, manicured for safe footing, speed, and water drainage is hard to beat. Spokane is also not shy about becoming a center for endurance sports with this (also luring cyclocross) and The Podium indoor track facility. Boise’s days are numbered.
Firman has been very warm since at least 2018, and it falls the week after Woodbridge/The Mook, the same weekend as Nike Portland, the weekend before Nike Twilight. Between the heat, the dust, where it falls on the schedule, there being slight elevation, no one really liking the course... I can see why it isn't a big deal with the Oregon and Washington schools.
I think we will see more Idaho schools move away from running Bob Firman unless it's the state course that year. If NXR moves away from it, I could see it essentially killing it being a big meet because you likely won't see the Montana, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, and Wyoming teams have any real reason to travel to it. It's also really damning if Nike yanks NXR from your course.
Between all my kids and living in Idaho I’ve been to a lot of meets there. There are really only two major issues:
1) the merge and first corner need to not be a pinch point. I think that was mostly fixed a few years ago, but they need to be careful with it.
2) the bigger issue is the rough terrain for the start and finish. IMO it is usually downright dangerous and unacceptable. I know of one broken leg it caused (hole) and saw a kid lose when he tripped on the homestretch.
Grooming the field annually and extensively has to be a priority every year or they shouldn’t race on it.
A hairpin less than 1k in when it pinches down to 6 feet wide 500m in is crazy. The first 1200m needs to be reworked. Either that or they need to limit the field to something like 15 teams and 35 individuals.
The new cross country facility being built in Spokane Valley is going to be fantastic! The NCAA West Region for 2027 has already been awarded to Spokane.
History? Pfft. A purpose built facility that is wired for TV/streaming, manicured for safe footing, speed, and water drainage is hard to beat. Spokane is also not shy about becoming a center for endurance sports with this (also luring cyclocross) and The Podium indoor track facility. Boise’s days are numbered.
Are they at least making it a little hard, or will it just be a racetrack like running lane?
Is it not just the first five who aren’t on a qualifying team? In this case, the top five? Unless somehow crater gets in. Saw the comment that Brownell declined. Not sure why anyone would do that? Boaz finished sixth, by 0.2 seconds, and has had a great season. Would be nice to see him get in. Also saw a suggestion of individual at-larges, is that a thing with nxn?
Is it not just the first five who aren’t on a qualifying team? In this case, the top five? Unless somehow crater gets in. Saw the comment that Brownell declined. Not sure why anyone would do that? Boaz finished sixth, by 0.2 seconds, and has had a great season. Would be nice to see him get in. Also saw a suggestion of individual at-larges, is that a thing with nxn?
Maybe Brownell decided to do Footlocker or RunningLane?
I've run at Eagle Island. I think tough courses can be fun. I don't they should change it. Cross country is about competing well despite environmental challenges. If you want fast times achieved under no-risk conditions, then that's what track is for.
So is Crater definitely out for NXN? What a blow... I was at the finish line and saw them sitting there devastated for like 15 minutes while everyone else cleared out. Tostenson especially looked gutted.
Not impossible that Rocky and Crater get at-large bids. Not very likely, but not out of the question either.
So is Crater definitely out for NXN? What a blow... I was at the finish line and saw them sitting there devastated for like 15 minutes while everyone else cleared out. Tostenson especially looked gutted.
Not impossible that Rocky and Crater get at-large bids. Not very likely, but not out of the question either.
Plainfield North IL didn’t beat any potential autoqualifiers yesterday either but their NXR speed ratings looked a little better than Rocky’s.
Teams can already get practice on the course if they come to Firman (something none of the Oregon or Washington teams do for some reason) although the Idaho teams still undoubtedly have an advantage.
I like that Eagle Island is a tough course, even one that's quite technical.
On a side note, if the course does get moved, I really think it should be in Montana. Bozeman is maybe the best team in the last 10 years in the region, and Montana continues to impress me each year at how well their teams and individuals end up doing. I'm sure we could find a state park that would make the course unique and even a bit techinical, without making it as "dangerous" (although I don't really think IT IS dangerous) as Eagle Island.
Already has been said but the reason why many OR/WA teams don't come to Firman is because of other conflicting and often more attractive meets but also it's a 12 hour roundtrip drive as opposed to 8-9 (OR) or 0-5 (WA) for Hole in the wall/Nike twilight, or 1-5 (OR) or 4-9 (WA). Which generally means that an overnight is required. When so many huge invitationals fall in the last few weeks of September most don't have the budget to do many overnights or the will to race their top 7 all out 3 weeks in a row.
I agree that the idea of a manicured course is kind of dumb especially for a meet like NXR where it's about racing to win and not for times and don't think it should be moved to Spokane's new course for that reason. However having raced on the Eagle Island course a few times it is really rough. Cross country should value racing in various conditions, another reason why Spokane's new course shouldn't be chosen (NW courses are becoming closer to woodbridge by the year, a drained XC course is pretty much an oxymoron) but Eagle Island's start makes it so you have to race dumb for at least 1k just to not be boxed in and wasting energy for most of the race. And even then there's a solid chance you get on the inside lane and are forced to make terrible moves, you saw Tayvon Kitchen in the race video passing a bunch of people on the edge of the course 500m in just to get into a decent place. Not to mention the section of the course on the hard dirt/rock road that results in many people cutting (often involuntarily) because there's no proper flagging.
Montana or Spokane would be a poor choice also due to location within the NW. The reality is that many teams have to fly to the race venue already at this point. It would be better to not give NE Washington or Montana kids an advantage just for being lucky to be close to the course while nearly everybody misses out on the same advantage since the region's teams do not visit Montana or Spokane.