As someone stated before, Colorado is full of talent and rarely do the Buffs recruit those kids all that hard to their team.
Hopefully this changes. Personally I think it was great a few years ago when CU and CSU both had awesome teams with Colorado kids on each. The RMAC schools as well. Every Colorado team should be good
many more factors today than then and recruiting itself is a huge drain of time.
CU and Boulder in general is nuts. Very expensive place, the Deion Sanders stuff going on, etc. another conference change and D1 NIL, transfer portal, etc. is all a handful. Nothing like 1992 when Wetmore started. People won't be pleased no matter what the results are.
Good luck.
Why do people talk about CU being expensive? It's no different than Stanford, ucla, Georgetown, Villanova, or any Boston school. College students with room and board largely largely immune to local cost of living anyway.
Coach Prime has little interest in distance runners; same as any other football school.
First, I have heard that the amount of money CU CC/track has for aid is not that great. Yes if room and board are covered that knocks down a lot of cost, but tuition is still high. Few are getting a "full ride" when you are limited by NCAA rules and then the university might not fully fund the grants-in-aid that you can offer.
Base tuition at CU is $14K/year, Housing/meals $18K, out of state $21K UCLA $15K and $18K and $49K
All the rest listed are private schools. Stanford tuition is $65K Housing is $21K as an example.
Yes there are financial aid packages to help but those are still pretty pricey.
Do we think a D1 football coach would ever be fired for telling his linemen they needed to put on more weight, even if it’s unhealthy to be that heavy?
No -- but he would be fired for telling a lineman to LOSE weight.
No offense, Hoss ... but comparing offensive linemen -- and asking them to gain weight is not remotely similar to telling women who are already skinny to lose more weight. A correct analogy would be to tell an offensive lineman that he is too big to lose weight -- which happens everyday at every decent school. You can definitely be too big and too fat to be a great OL player. If you look at most pro football players now-a-days -- it isn't really even about weight. It is about their frame. Football coaches want long levers (arms) and huge frames that they can rebuild in a manner that helps their program be successful.
You can do this in track/cross as well -- but you have to go into it honestly and tell the truth upfront. And you need to make sure that you have plenty of sports shrinks ready for when female runners don't understand that going LOWER than their ideal weight is not an option.
There is enough science out there now-a-days that speaks to the fact that everyone has an ideal weight -- even as a long distance runner. You just need to be ready to help understand and hold the line with females when they think that they should be under their ideal weight. Pull them. Put their health first. Let them know what to expect when they are being recruited -- and let them know up front that the program will find the ideal body composition for athletes in the program -- and that they will be expected to stick to that weight or they will be pulled. Communicate, communicate, communicate ... it doesn't have to be hard.
Dealing with male/female athletes is different. One person can handle it --- but it will take time and effort to ensure to manage something like that. Most importantly, it will take honesty -- and a very strong personality to help the females understand that their health comes before anything else.
I have already turned this job down -- the administration wants less of a $hitshow with Coach Prime-and-Wine making a spectacle of himself everyday. They want someone who isn't going to make waves for an extended period of time -- which to me feels like they are not overly interested in getting the program back to the next level. With NIL money out there -- and boy is there a lot when it comes to CU -- it felt a ton more like getting along to get along instead of a progressive thought process that is interested in building/rebuilding a program. Which also could end up being a younger person who is well thought of and isn't overly concerned about proper compensation.
The other thing -- it is time that track/distance/xc coaches move away from the "lets be friends with the coach" routine. It makes it a ton easier for kids to fall through the cracks -- and to hide the eating disorders. You can develop relationships with athletes --- and have solid discussions and give and take -- without acting like you are going to be drinking buddies as soon as you graduate.
The sport is changing massively -- and all the former high level runners who think they are coaches usually have no understanding of what it takes to be a "real" coach. They understand how to be buddies and how to run with their coach -- instead of being coached. These great former runners who are now coaching usually have no understanding of how to deal with anyone other than exceptionally talented athletes. That group is so small to begin with -- and you are leaving the majority of the rest of the program off to the side ... trying to figure out what to do on their own -- when they obviously are not there yet. CU needs a coach who is more worried about coaching everyone on the roster -- than the 2-3 elite level athletes. Until that focus comes back -- eating disorders will continue -- because it is the only sure fire way to help an above average female runner make it to the next step -- because your famous elite runner/coaches can't relate to the average, middle of the road student athlete.
As someone stated before, Colorado is full of talent and rarely do the Buffs recruit those kids all that hard to their team.
Hopefully this changes. Personally I think it was great a few years ago when CU and CSU both had awesome teams with Colorado kids on each. The RMAC schools as well. Every Colorado team should be good
I think some of it is wanting to get away to school. A lot of people in CO are transplants so mom and dad might have moved from somewhere else and the kid went to HS here but is not a Coloradoan by birth.
Recruiting in state can stretch the finances as well of the athletic department. At least CO has running talent, cannot say the same for football talent.
Do we think a D1 football coach would ever be fired for telling his linemen they needed to put on more weight, even if it’s unhealthy to be that heavy?
No -- but he would be fired for telling a lineman to LOSE weight.
No offense, Hoss ... but comparing offensive linemen -- and asking them to gain weight is not remotely similar to telling women who are already skinny to lose more weight. A correct analogy would be to tell an offensive lineman that he is too big to lose weight -- which happens everyday at every decent school. You can definitely be too big and too fat to be a great OL player. If you look at most pro football players now-a-days -- it isn't really even about weight. It is about their frame. Football coaches want long levers (arms) and huge frames that they can rebuild in a manner that helps their program be successful.
You can do this in track/cross as well -- but you have to go into it honestly and tell the truth upfront. And you need to make sure that you have plenty of sports shrinks ready for when female runners don't understand that going LOWER than their ideal weight is not an option.
There is enough science out there now-a-days that speaks to the fact that everyone has an ideal weight -- even as a long distance runner. You just need to be ready to help understand and hold the line with females when they think that they should be under their ideal weight. Pull them. Put their health first. Let them know what to expect when they are being recruited -- and let them know up front that the program will find the ideal body composition for athletes in the program -- and that they will be expected to stick to that weight or they will be pulled. Communicate, communicate, communicate ... it doesn't have to be hard.
Dealing with male/female athletes is different. One person can handle it --- but it will take time and effort to ensure to manage something like that. Most importantly, it will take honesty -- and a very strong personality to help the females understand that their health comes before anything else.
I have already turned this job down -- the administration wants less of a $hitshow with Coach Prime-and-Wine making a spectacle of himself everyday. They want someone who isn't going to make waves for an extended period of time -- which to me feels like they are not overly interested in getting the program back to the next level. With NIL money out there -- and boy is there a lot when it comes to CU -- it felt a ton more like getting along to get along instead of a progressive thought process that is interested in building/rebuilding a program. Which also could end up being a younger person who is well thought of and isn't overly concerned about proper compensation.
The other thing -- it is time that track/distance/xc coaches move away from the "lets be friends with the coach" routine. It makes it a ton easier for kids to fall through the cracks -- and to hide the eating disorders. You can develop relationships with athletes --- and have solid discussions and give and take -- without acting like you are going to be drinking buddies as soon as you graduate.
The sport is changing massively -- and all the former high level runners who think they are coaches usually have no understanding of what it takes to be a "real" coach. They understand how to be buddies and how to run with their coach -- instead of being coached. These great former runners who are now coaching usually have no understanding of how to deal with anyone other than exceptionally talented athletes. That group is so small to begin with -- and you are leaving the majority of the rest of the program off to the side ... trying to figure out what to do on their own -- when they obviously are not there yet. CU needs a coach who is more worried about coaching everyone on the roster -- than the 2-3 elite level athletes. Until that focus comes back -- eating disorders will continue -- because it is the only sure fire way to help an above average female runner make it to the next step -- because your famous elite runner/coaches can't relate to the average, middle of the road student athlete.
Football coaches have told players to lose weight. I bet every year on every team there is a player who is overweight. However, the weight loss is not going to put the player in a unhealthy situation whereas asking a distance runner who is likely already pretty lean to do so might.
A defensive lineman being asked to go from 360 to 330 is not likely to develop major health issues. Having a woman distance runner who barely breaks 110 to get to 100 could. (Or drop below 14% BF could). Men can get to a lower BF% because well men and women are different and fat plays a very different role in each.
Since when, in the Wetmore era" did CU recruit Colorado high school talent. Wetmore did not care. This past State meet he sent a coach who looked like something the cat dragged in. Bare feet, 5 o'clock shadow, a ragged t-shirt, and he had messy hair. If I was recruiting for a college, I would dress in the nines so recruits and coaches would see me and want to approach me. You don't want to approach someone who looks homeless. Bottom line, Wetmore is out. Lets hope the AD hires someone charismatic.
He has had strong results with the Army program nearby in Colorado Springs. Many of the athletes in the Army program are in the twilight years of their careers.
He has had strong results with the Army program nearby in Colorado Springs. Many of the athletes in the Army program are in the twilight years of their careers.
Note, Army is in West Point on the east coast.
Are you that guy who goes to Wyoming asking where the ocean is located?
You are correct that there is a college at West Point but Scott Simmons coaches US Army athletes in Colorado. There definitely are much better options for this job.
I have already turned this job down -- the administration wants less of a $hitshow with Coach Prime-and-Wine making a spectacle of himself everyday. They want someone who isn't going to make waves for an extended period of time -- which to me feels like they are not overly interested in getting the program back to the next level.
Did anyone catch this - What NikkiSixx typed? "I have already turned this job down."
If true, who is NikkiSixx - and, who else may have already been offered the position?
They should add some separation between the men’s and women’s programs. Hire Diljeet Taylor as women’s head coach and give her the “Director of XC/T&F” title (a great hire, plus they’d still get kudos from the non-running media who doesn’t know the difference). Then for the men’s head coach, hire a rising star assistant like Trevor Dunbar, who has turned the UVA guys into a distance power in just a few short years under Vin. That should check all the boxes for CU — a little flash without the egos.
I really don't think most people have a clue what comes with college coaching. The administration, college / university, city, resources, etc. all have a huge impact on a coaches ability to be effective.
Being a distance coach in the NCAA system is very unique. Trying to coach two genders through three seasons per school year and balance a continuous changing of the guard within a program has a lot more to do with circumstances than just writing some workouts.
People throwing out these names of coaches, most of those people have been successful because they are an institutional fit for where they are, have a life, support and are capable of coaching people how they want.
Can you count how many different people have coached at Stanford in the past 25 years? A ton! Why? Not because they were bad coaches or didn't have talent coming there. Burnout.
The CU situation will be hard for anyone because it's in a fishbowl and everyone will have an opinion. Wetmore came there as a volunteer, then an assistant, then distance coach and head coach. When he came on board it was 1992 and CU was in the Big 8 conference. Very good for sure, but D1 then was like D2 today (look at the TFRRS lists). Developing people and building good xc teams at the D1 level was more about coaching unless you bought a foreign team. Today it's very different. There are so many more factors today than then and recruiting itself is a huge drain of time.
CU and Boulder in general is nuts. Very expensive place, the Deion Sanders stuff going on, etc. another conference change and D1 NIL, transfer portal, etc. is all a handful. Nothing like 1992 when Wetmore started. People won't be pleased no matter what the results are.
Good luck.
The saying in coaching distance runners in Boulder is: "Run 20 meters, trip over an expert."
No -- but he would be fired for telling a lineman to LOSE weight.
No offense, Hoss ... but comparing offensive linemen -- and asking them to gain weight is not remotely similar to telling women who are already skinny to lose more weight. A correct analogy would be to tell an offensive lineman that he is too big to lose weight -- which happens everyday at every decent school. You can definitely be too big and too fat to be a great OL player. If you look at most pro football players now-a-days -- it isn't really even about weight. It is about their frame. Football coaches want long levers (arms) and huge frames that they can rebuild in a manner that helps their program be successful.
You can do this in track/cross as well -- but you have to go into it honestly and tell the truth upfront. And you need to make sure that you have plenty of sports shrinks ready for when female runners don't understand that going LOWER than their ideal weight is not an option.
There is enough science out there now-a-days that speaks to the fact that everyone has an ideal weight -- even as a long distance runner. You just need to be ready to help understand and hold the line with females when they think that they should be under their ideal weight. Pull them. Put their health first. Let them know what to expect when they are being recruited -- and let them know up front that the program will find the ideal body composition for athletes in the program -- and that they will be expected to stick to that weight or they will be pulled. Communicate, communicate, communicate ... it doesn't have to be hard.
Dealing with male/female athletes is different. One person can handle it --- but it will take time and effort to ensure to manage something like that. Most importantly, it will take honesty -- and a very strong personality to help the females understand that their health comes before anything else.
I have already turned this job down -- the administration wants less of a $hitshow with Coach Prime-and-Wine making a spectacle of himself everyday. They want someone who isn't going to make waves for an extended period of time -- which to me feels like they are not overly interested in getting the program back to the next level. With NIL money out there -- and boy is there a lot when it comes to CU -- it felt a ton more like getting along to get along instead of a progressive thought process that is interested in building/rebuilding a program. Which also could end up being a younger person who is well thought of and isn't overly concerned about proper compensation.
The other thing -- it is time that track/distance/xc coaches move away from the "lets be friends with the coach" routine. It makes it a ton easier for kids to fall through the cracks -- and to hide the eating disorders. You can develop relationships with athletes --- and have solid discussions and give and take -- without acting like you are going to be drinking buddies as soon as you graduate.
The sport is changing massively -- and all the former high level runners who think they are coaches usually have no understanding of what it takes to be a "real" coach. They understand how to be buddies and how to run with their coach -- instead of being coached. These great former runners who are now coaching usually have no understanding of how to deal with anyone other than exceptionally talented athletes. That group is so small to begin with -- and you are leaving the majority of the rest of the program off to the side ... trying to figure out what to do on their own -- when they obviously are not there yet. CU needs a coach who is more worried about coaching everyone on the roster -- than the 2-3 elite level athletes. Until that focus comes back -- eating disorders will continue -- because it is the only sure fire way to help an above average female runner make it to the next step -- because your famous elite runner/coaches can't relate to the average, middle of the road student athlete.
Football coaches have told players to lose weight. I bet every year on every team there is a player who is overweight. However, the weight loss is not going to put the player in a unhealthy situation whereas asking a distance runner who is likely already pretty lean to do so might.
A defensive lineman being asked to go from 360 to 330 is not likely to develop major health issues. Having a woman distance runner who barely breaks 110 to get to 100 could. (Or drop below 14% BF could). Men can get to a lower BF% because well men and women are different and fat plays a very different role in each.
No offense -- but did you read his quote? And did you read mine? The original quote:
"Do we think a D1 football coach would ever be fired for telling his linemen they needed to put on more weight, even if it is more healthy o be that heavy?"
Whether you realize it or not -- we already agreed. The logic he used was "gaining" weight -- which is possible -- but not as likely now as it once was.
As far as what is better for a track athlete or football athlete -- I think we will both agree drastic weight loss and/or drastic weight gain are both risky for athletes. Even more so when they are younger -- and don't understand the impact of the gain or loss.
So, not trying to be a jerk -- but a little reading would go a long way in this case.
He is thinking about the Air Force Academy (or at least -- I would think so -- seeing as how it is in Colorado Springs). West Point, as you say, is obviously on the East Coach --- great thought though ... reminds me of something my wife would say ... even now!
I have already turned this job down -- the administration wants less of a $hitshow with Coach Prime-and-Wine making a spectacle of himself everyday. They want someone who isn't going to make waves for an extended period of time -- which to me feels like they are not overly interested in getting the program back to the next level.
Did anyone catch this - What NikkiSixx typed? "I have already turned this job down."
If true, who is NikkiSixx - and, who else may have already been offered the position?
I am sure everyone caught it ... and they probably already know who I am ... and could probably care less.
I am not sure where I was order-wise ... I would guess 2 or 3-- but I was able to share my opinion on a few others who I feel are better fits (sounded like 1 was on their list already ... and the other wasn't -- but hopefully will be now -- I feel like he is the best person out there -- he knows how to lead young men and women and build programs and carries enough respect that he will still bring high profile athletes in as recruits). Either would most likely continue to coach a few elite/pro runners. With that said, the college athletes must and will come first with both of the coaches in question.
My thought -- this job will be filled in the next few days -- or it will be much later (my money is on early). The run up to the Olympics will make this very interesting in regard to timing. From there -- they are willing to put up much, much more money up for the right person than I imagined (Good thing about Coach Prime -- lots more money coming in than in the recent past ... and he must have everyone in a good enough mood to spend some of it!).
This deal isn't rocket science -- they want someone who will build a complete program. It won't just be about distance and cross. There will be money to hire a solid distance coach if the candidate in question isn't distance oriented. I expect things to be fast and furious.
Vancouver Canucks head coach Roger Neilson was frustrated with the referees in Game 2 of the 1982 Clarence Campbell Conference Final, so he waved the white…t...
He has had strong results with the Army program nearby in Colorado Springs. Many of the athletes in the Army program are in the twilight years of their careers.
It’s a state job. Simmons had his business seized for not paying the state of Colorado. Hardly a good fit.
He is thinking about the Air Force Academy (or at least -- I would think so -- seeing as how it is in Colorado Springs). West Point, as you say, is obviously on the East Coach --- great thought though ... reminds me of something my wife would say ... even now!
I though this was a website that knew running. Simmons is the Army WCAP coach, as well as the ADP coach. I just saw some of his international athletes at the Music City meet. Army WCAP track and field is based out of Fort Carson in Colorado Springs. Heathens...
He has had strong results with the Army program nearby in Colorado Springs. Many of the athletes in the Army program are in the twilight years of their careers.
Note, Army is in West Point on the east coast.
Are you that guy who goes to Wyoming asking where the ocean is located?
You are wrong. The team with Paul Chelimo, Leonard Korir, and Hillary Bor trains in Colorado Springs under Scott Simmons (who trained an Olympic 5km medallist without getting banned from the sport).
Are you the type of person who goes to West Point college and said I hope I see Paul Chelimo?