So how does Jakob become the GOAT if he doesn't at least match the achievements of the best in his events if not exceed them? The term GOAT implies - requires - an historical comparison with all the best who have gone before. You are really quite witless.
He clearly has to better
Nurmi's 9 Olympic Gold medals Gebrselassie 26 WRs El Guerrouj's 30+ sub 3:30 times Farah's no. of global titles Cheptegei's, ElG's and Komen's current WRs Keino's and Aouita's range Bekele's and Kipchoge's longevity Zatopek's triple Rono's record season Coe's two Golds Elliott's and Bayi's WRs in finals Moses' and Holloway's unbeaten records Beamon's % improvement
Bubka's no. of records
if stupidity would hurt...
Reading this list made me LOL while waiting in line at a sandwich shop. Don’t forget he needs to win multiple World XC championships, and if he really wants to set himself apart, he should win a steeplechase gold medal and break the WR in that event, too!
As ridiculous as such a list sounds, there is some truth to it. Not saying he needs to do all those things, but it’s not unreasonable to ask that he get at least two world records among the 1500, 5,000, and 10,000, win more golds than Farah, and beat the world’s best on grass to have a strong GOAT case.
There’s a difference between being arguably the GOAT and being the undisputed GOAT. The bar is obviously much higher if he wants to be the undisputed GOAT. Jakob said “the goal is never to have the discussion again,” so that means he needs to dwarf the accomplishments of professional era runners.
Snell had a better career than Jakob but at 22 he was not only Olympic champion, he had 3 world records in his specialist events. That puts him ahead of Jakob.
He has had not a single WR, Dumbstrong.
Snell: world 800m record, 880y, 1000y (indoors), 1000m, 1 mile (twice), 4x1 mile. (The 800/880 and mile records were recorded at the beginning of 1962). Of the outdoor records, Jakob has the 2000m record and 2 miles. You are an ignorant prat. But you prove that with every post.
So how does Jakob become the GOAT if he doesn't at least match the achievements of the best in his events if not exceed them? The term GOAT implies - requires - an historical comparison with all the best who have gone before. You are really quite witless.
He clearly has to better
Nurmi's 9 Olympic Gold medals Gebrselassie 26 WRs El Guerrouj's 30+ sub 3:30 times Farah's no. of global titles Cheptegei's, ElG's and Komen's current WRs Keino's and Aouita's range Bekele's and Kipchoge's longevity Zatopek's triple Rono's record season Coe's two Golds Elliott's and Bayi's WRs in finals Moses' and Holloway's unbeaten records Beamon's % improvement
Bubka's no. of records
if stupidity would hurt...
Well, that it makes it easy for you - and Jakob. He doesn't have to be as good as any of the greats of the past. But you've long made that clear. He won't be. Jakob will be the GOAT but not as good as any named on your list. Does your stupidity hurt? It should be agonizing.
Ther never will be a clear answer to such questions. It also depends a lot on your personal preferences.
For me, Rudisha is not a contender for GOAT distance running (of we are really looking for this). I even would put Coe ahead of him (at best almost as good as Rudisha over 800 (or even better, regarding historical context) plus all-time status also over 100m/Mile. But Coe for me is way behind Gebrselassie and Bekele (which had much more "straight" careers).
Others can see it totally different, that's OK.
Ingebrigtsen has a long way to go, but for me he has a serious chance to succeed with his goal. I would really like to know in which kind of shape he is currently after his injury problems. I'm sceptical for Paris (and hope for Nuguse...). Let's see - extremely interesting the upcoming season.
I like your reasoning and the way you present your thoughts.
Of course you do. He thinks the same way as you. Unfortunately.
The more you write the less convincing you become. Desperate.
That is exactly why you should be banned from this website permanently. You make personal insults. You do not respond at all to the well thought out and detailed research and arguments of anyone else. You litter the boards with one sentence dismissals, often twenty to the page of a thread. We'd all be far better off with you off the boards. You contribute nothing whatsoever. What facts should we be taking account of here? You bring none of them.
They aren't well thought out. They are merely the irrelevant waffle that you agree with. But being succinct is beyond any of you.
Snell had a better career than Jakob but at 22 he was not only Olympic champion, he had 3 world records in his specialist events. That puts him ahead of Jakob.
Snell was a bum compared to Jakob. Running against other bums is not what it is now. Jakob now has a couple thousand more competitors from around the world than Snell ever did.
You're probably a boomer that bought a house in the 70's for 8 raspberries and can't grasp that now 2 people in the houshold have to work 20 years to afford the same house. Times are much harder now, in sports too. Therefore the achievements much more valuable as well.
I always enjoy reading the views of those who have just emerged from their egg.
Best ever at no events? Jakob is the best ever at 2k and 2M, fourth best at 1500m (ahead are a doper (Kiprop), a runner whose training partners tested positive (El G), and an A sample (Lagat)), third best at mile, third best ever at 3k, 15th at 5000m. Add to that three world or Olympic golds and two silvers. That is a great, great start to the GOAT case at 22! And of course his comments make it crystal clear that he is not talking about being the best ever at one event but at a range of them from 1500m through half marathon. Contrast a figure like Bekele, 2nd at 5k and 10k, and lower at every other distance, 1500m in the 700s, half marathon 848.
He isn't the best ever at any championship event. Not the 1500 or the 5k. He won't be the best ever at those events or the 10k or the marathon. He is merely blowing his trumpet and you fan boys simply fall to your knees.
Eh, but Bekele's record at 3000m and up is overall much better than Jakob's. Still has WR in indoor 2000m and 5000m, plus his 2nd at 5000m and 10000m was done with no wavelengths or supershoes. The one guy ahead of him, Cheptegei, has been no where near as dominant at either as Bekele was in his prime (undefeated in 10000m from 2003-2011). Also 3rd in the marathon all time with a masters WR to boot. His 11 world XC titles unquestionably make him the GOAT in cross. His half ranking is also not representative of his true potential, a 2:01:41 marathoner can run a half faster than 60:07, Bekele just barely ever raced the half and never did a serious time trial. Jakob could be the GOAT one day, but he's got a long way to go. He needs to throw down some fast 10000m and half times first before he can be in the conversation of distance GOAT.
Disagree on Chep’s lack of dominance especially over 10k
WC- Silver, Gold, Gold, Gold
Olympics - silver (gold 5000).
He already has the world record and imo if he wins gold in Paris in the 10k he has a very good GOAT argument for that distance.
Of course what skews the GOAT discussion is that for at least the last thirty or so years no one has approached that status without doping. Today it is a given - Jakob necessarily included.
Snell: world 800m record, 880y, 1000y (indoors), 1000m, 1 mile (twice), 4x1 mile. (The 800/880 and mile records were recorded at the beginning of 1962). Of the outdoor records, Jakob has the 2000m record and 2 miles. You are an ignorant prat. But you prove that with every post.
Like the 800m and 880y were different... yes, the 1000y indoors!
2 times Mile WR - with a total improvement of 0.4 seconds. Bettered by 3 seconds within a few years.
Dumbstrong: at age 22 Snell has had 3 WRs in his "specialist" events.
He has had no WRs at age 22.
With 3 Olympic Golds and his great 800m WR Snell for sure is one of the legends in middle distance running.
Should we recall them that there in no emperor in the middle of a desert?
Recall me the last distance runner from Norway before the Ingert family project.
Ha, ha -good one! And to your question about the last distance runner from Norway: If you had asked for a middle distance runner I could have said Olympic champion Vebjørn Rodal (The former Olympic Record holder). But distance runner? Maybe Ingrid Kristiansen, former World record holder in the 5000m, 10000m and marathon…
Should we recall them that there in no emperor in the middle of a desert?
Recall me the last distance runner from Norway before the Ingert family project.
Ha, ha -good one! And to your question about the last distance runner from Norway: If you had asked for a middle distance runner I could have said Olympic champion Vebjørn Rodal (The former Olympic Record holder). But distance runner? Maybe Ingrid Kristiansen, former World record holder in the 5000m, 10000m and marathon…
My answer to you was too narrow (too many to choose from): Forgot saying that Kristiansen of course also is a World champion. And that her Norwegian colleague, Grete Waitz, was a 6 times World champion (+9 times New York marathon winner)…
Among the Norwegian males: Marius Bakken (who designed “The Norwegian method”): 13.06, as the best western runner in the train behind the Africans (Haile, Bekele)…
Nurmi's 9 Olympic Gold medals Gebrselassie 26 WRs El Guerrouj's 30+ sub 3:30 times Farah's no. of global titles Cheptegei's, ElG's and Komen's current WRs Keino's and Aouita's range Bekele's and Kipchoge's longevity Zatopek's triple Rono's record season Coe's two Golds Elliott's and Bayi's WRs in finals Moses' and Holloway's unbeaten records Beamon's % improvement
Bubka's no. of records
if stupidity would hurt...
Well, that it makes it easy for you - and Jakob. He doesn't have to be as good as any of the greats of the past. But you've long made that clear. He won't be. Jakob will be the GOAT but not as good as any named on your list. Does your stupidity hurt? It should be agonizing.
To be called GOAT you have to be "better" than all the other greats of the past.
"Better" for sure doesn't mean you have to be better in any aspect. This is so far beyond your understanding that any explanation will not be successful.
How can Bekele be the GOAT when Farah has more track Golds? Farah? For sure not, no WRs. El Guerrouj? No chance, just 1 1500m Olympic Gold. Kipchoge? Never ever with just 1 track Gold. Coe? Way behind Rudisha. Rudisha? No 1500m success, so way behind Coe. Viren? Lost regularly against all the others, very short standing WRs - no contender. Clarke? No titles - what a choke. Keino? Lost in Munich. Elliott, Snell? Just 2 or 3 top seasons. Nurmi? No contention.
Snell: world 800m record, 880y, 1000y (indoors), 1000m, 1 mile (twice), 4x1 mile. (The 800/880 and mile records were recorded at the beginning of 1962). Of the outdoor records, Jakob has the 2000m record and 2 miles. You are an ignorant prat. But you prove that with every post.
Like the 800m and 880y were different... yes, the 1000y indoors!
2 times Mile WR - with a total improvement of 0.4 seconds. Bettered by 3 seconds within a few years.
Dumbstrong: at age 22 Snell has had 3 WRs in his "specialist" events.
He has had no WRs at age 22.
With 3 Olympic Golds and his great 800m WR Snell for sure is one of the legends in middle distance running.
So Snell was just 23 when he set his first world records. Such a difference from 22. Snell also began his career at 19 - unlike Jakob beginning his at 10 (and no doubt doping not long after - good old Gjert). But Snell set world records in recognised championship distances (and, yes, the 800m and 880y were typically run as separate events in that era, which is why he set out to break both records in the one race). Jakob has no world record over a championship distance. He likely never will. But keep listing his inferior achievements to console yourself about how "great" he is - or will be.
Nurmi's 9 Olympic Gold medals Gebrselassie 26 WRs El Guerrouj's 30+ sub 3:30 times Farah's no. of global titles Cheptegei's, ElG's and Komen's current WRs Keino's and Aouita's range Bekele's and Kipchoge's longevity Zatopek's triple Rono's record season Coe's two Golds Elliott's and Bayi's WRs in finals Moses' and Holloway's unbeaten records Beamon's % improvement
Bubka's no. of records
if stupidity would hurt...
Reading this list made me LOL while waiting in line at a sandwich shop. Don’t forget he needs to win multiple World XC championships, and if he really wants to set himself apart, he should win a steeplechase gold medal and break the WR in that event, too!
As ridiculous as such a list sounds, there is some truth to it. Not saying he needs to do all those things, but it’s not unreasonable to ask that he get at least two world records among the 1500, 5,000, and 10,000, win more golds than Farah, and beat the world’s best on grass to have a strong GOAT case.
There’s a difference between being arguably the GOAT and being the undisputed GOAT. The bar is obviously much higher if he wants to be the undisputed GOAT. Jakob said “the goal is never to have the discussion again,” so that means he needs to dwarf the accomplishments of professional era runners.
The point was not that he has to exceed the achievements of every top athlete in every event but if he is to be "the greatest of all time" in md and distance running he has to be better than those who have a claim to that accolade - such as Elliott, Snell, Coe, El G and Bekele. His achievements have to be measured against theirs. He is a long way off. I understand that the clod who posted the comment you responded to didn't grasp that.
Well, that it makes it easy for you - and Jakob. He doesn't have to be as good as any of the greats of the past. But you've long made that clear. He won't be. Jakob will be the GOAT but not as good as any named on your list. Does your stupidity hurt? It should be agonizing.
To be called GOAT you have to be "better" than all the other greats of the past.
"Better" for sure doesn't mean you have to be better in any aspect. This is so far beyond your understanding that any explanation will not be successful.
How can Bekele be the GOAT when Farah has more track Golds? Farah? For sure not, no WRs. El Guerrouj? No chance, just 1 1500m Olympic Gold. Kipchoge? Never ever with just 1 track Gold. Coe? Way behind Rudisha. Rudisha? No 1500m success, so way behind Coe. Viren? Lost regularly against all the others, very short standing WRs - no contender. Clarke? No titles - what a choke. Keino? Lost in Munich. Elliott, Snell? Just 2 or 3 top seasons. Nurmi? No contention.
no one ever remaining --- Dumbstrong at his best.
If you were a little brighter (sadly, you aren't) you would realise from the examples you have given that it would be incredibly difficult for any athlete to be head and shoulders above those who are amongst the greatest in the sport - which is what it would take to be "the greatest of all time". But this is what the modest Norwegian aspires to, when he likely wouldn't make the list of contenders you have compiled above. But he is at least the "next guy".
This post was edited 10 minutes after it was posted.