My daughter is competing against two boys this weekend in California 1600 State Championships

California Rules wrote:

Man, I was not expecting all this -- esp. the political back and forth.

There is a lot of conversation about this. I've got friends constantly texting and calling me to get my thoughts. So the update here is:

1. yes, my daughter is competing.

2. her attitude is that these guys are 'just another person I have to beat.' She doesn't fall for the distraction -- she just wants to take care of business. Of course she DOES NOT want to compete against these guys in this setting. When my spouse came up with ideas to protest, my daughter was completely uninterested. It's not her battle was the feeling I got. I am sure that would change if my daughter got 2nd and one of the boys won, however.

3. When I told her that there was suggestions that she and other girls should boycott somehow, she laughed. "Ain't no way I'm not running at state." She's a high school girl. Not an activist. Attagirl.

3. Yes, I live in California. No, I don't think boys (humans with male genitalia) should be competing against girls (humans with female genitalia). I didn't vote for this. Nobody in my circle thinks this is trending in the right way...let the California stereotypes stop.

4. I do believe it's going to take someone 'rewriting the record books' to make a change. But I think there is more attention now being drawn to this.

5. I have sons. I empathize for these little dudes this weekend. If my son wanted to be a girl/gay, etc. I would support him unconditionally. I would encourage him to be in sports and whatever else he wanted to do. But I wouldn't let him compete against girls. It's unfair. It's just not right.

6. The reason I have dismissed this issue with my daughter previously is because I just thought it would get sorted out. It's not fair, and logic wins most of the time. Nobody can argue against that. And it's not really that widespread of a problem...yet.

Finally, I have not read every comment. But I still have this overarching thought...

Is there anyone out there that thinks this is a good idea (to allow boys to compete against girls in this setting)? I know there is banter back and forth. But if you talk to 100 people, is there even one who can argue that this is fair?

That was the main reason for my initial post. I just don't understand the other perspective. Which is why this just seems crazy to me.

OK, now go back to insulting me...

Wise Old Man wrote:

GD wrote:

You really love standing on a moral high horse, but you don't seem to understand that "misgendering" is a moral slight only within a niche, highly-privileged ideological community. Some people belong to religious groups within which using preferred pronouns is heresy. Others ground their morals and ethics in a secular framework but believe that preferred pronouns are harmful because they are not truthful. Even if one believes it is appropriate and morally-right to use self-identified pronouns that do not correspond with one's biological sex, forcing people to adopt other people's idiosyncratic moral frameworks is antithetical to a free and open society. It's totalitarian.

Lastly, Linda Blade is not putting words in Adeline's mouth. She's making an inference about her situation based on a widely-circulated video and the facts of the situation. Way back when we had a shared reality, people could talk about other people and their situations without being accused of "speaking for" others. We all understood that people are speaking for themselves. When speaking at all about anybody other than the self is taken to mean speaking for that person, we wind up in a situation where people can only speak about themselves. Logically, this can only lead to narcissism, which is pretty much where our culture is. Note: only in a narcissistic culture would people belive it is possible and necessary for individuals to demand that others/society view them precisely the way they want to be viewed.

No, misgendering somebody, if done on purpose, is being a jerk. Denying people dignity, respect and autonomy is totalitarian, not the other way around. Whatever you think about Athena running in this MOC race, calling her, “her” costs you nothing. Not doing it is mean spirited. Nothing more or less.

As for Linda, total BS. When the left or the right manipulates the media NOT based in fact but fantasy, it’s a disservice to everybody. There is absolutely nothing on that video that indicates that Adeline is specifically upset that she lost to Athena as opposed to anybody else. Linda then warps it into saying that a “boy” has denied Adeline of her “dream.” What a bunch of crap. Everybody turning the athletes in that race into political pawns should be ashamed. As I’ve said many times, I’m a recent alumni parent of high level girls NCS running. You may think or assume that all of these athletes are outraged by Athena or think they’ve been violated by the CIF. You would be wrong. It’s far from a monolithic view point. Then you assume that anybody not outraged by Athena is simply caving to pressure or bullying. Wrong again.

Aouita 84 wrote:

Wise Old Man wrote:

No, misgendering somebody, if done on purpose, is being a jerk. Denying people dignity, respect and autonomy is totalitarian, not the other way around. Whatever you think about Athena running in this MOC race, calling her, “her” costs you nothing. Not doing it is mean spirited. Nothing more or less.

As for Linda, total BS. When the left or the right manipulates the media NOT based in fact but fantasy, it’s a disservice to everybody. There is absolutely nothing on that video that indicates that Adeline is specifically upset that she lost to Athena as opposed to anybody else. Linda then warps it into saying that a “boy” has denied Adeline of her “dream.” What a bunch of crap. Everybody turning the athletes in that race into political pawns should be ashamed. As I’ve said many times, I’m a recent alumni parent of high level girls NCS running. You may think or assume that all of these athletes are outraged by Athena or think they’ve been violated by the CIF. You would be wrong. It’s far from a monolithic view point. Then you assume that anybody not outraged by Athena is simply caving to pressure or bullying. Wrong again.

What do you consider "High Level" NCS running? Did your daughter compete against Athena? If so, how did she do? If not, you're just jumping into a conversation with ZERO credibility.

Also, please walk me through this statement and clarify:

"Denying people dignity, respect and autonomy is totalitarian". Who are you referencing to? and how is this statement relevant to this specific issue.

Mjjjknn wrote:

Nothing has happened at this point.

nobody is out of CIF because of the 2 athletes.

one of the 2 athletes led for more than 800m during the race at SS. A few girls got PBs as a result (the pace was going down to a crawl before she took over)

a lot of people have seen the video, so the girls at the SS master race got a lot of exposure

many people will tune into the CIF race. I know that I never saw any girl CIF 1600m in my life, but I will tune in this time. So all the girls in the race will get way more exposure than they ever got.

However, it is very likely that a girl will not make the final because one (or both) of the trans girl will take a spot. Then the real outrage will start. Get ready

At this point, people are simply following the CIF rules