Eileen Gu, world’s greatest free skier chooses China over the USA: agreement, outrage, indifference?

2600 bro wrote:

AP5000 wrote:

I don't think you realize how many countries are sh*teholes. The majority are. You obviously have never seen them . Yes, being in the US Army is a significantly better life than most people living in most countries have. I'm a veteran and have been all over the world, five different continents, and see some serious sh*teholes...and I haven't even been to Bangladesh or Africa. It's absurd you think this would not be a better life. It's not American exceptionalism, it a fact.

Life as a rich person in China functionally equivalent to life as a rich person in the US. She will make more money being THE STAR in China. I applaud he drive. Get that $$$$. The IOC stops being a corrupt, doping-infested organization we can demand ideological purity from its athletes.

Well I mostly agree with that. She'll make so much more in terms of wealth and fame in China. No one cares about a fringe winter sport here that's barley relevant once every four years. It's very obvious this was a financial decision.

AP5000 wrote:

2600 bro wrote:

Life as a rich person in China functionally equivalent to life as a rich person in the US. She will make more money being THE STAR in China. I applaud he drive. Get that $$$$. The IOC stops being a corrupt, doping-infested organization we can demand ideological purity from its athletes.

Well I mostly agree with that. She'll make so much more in terms of wealth and fame in China. No one cares about a fringe winter sport here that's barley relevant once every four years. It's very obvious this was a financial decision.

Agreed. She spun it well too “boost women’s snow sports in China etc. etc.”

I am not a hardcore nationalist. The Olympics are a massively corrupt commercial endeavor and I don’t fault someone for using them to chase maximum money. That being said, I still enjoy the Olympics and I enjoy supporting US athletes…

2600 bro wrote:

AP5000 wrote:

Well I mostly agree with that. She'll make so much more in terms of wealth and fame in China. No one cares about a fringe winter sport here that's barley relevant once every four years. It's very obvious this was a financial decision.

Agreed. She spun it well too “boost women’s snow sports in China etc. etc.”

I am not a hardcore nationalist. The Olympics are a massively corrupt commercial endeavor and I don’t fault someone for using them to chase maximum money. That being said, I still enjoy the Olympics and I enjoy supporting US athletes…

I don't like that she's competing for China, but I definitely understand her rationale. And like you I'm still watching. That whole China hockey team debacle is something else...and they still got humiliated 8-0.

AP5000 wrote:The biggest issue, I think, is because we constantly refer to them as anything other than Americans. Gu is not Chinese-American. She's American. She is of Chinese heritage, no different than I am of Croatian heritage...

This is a true for many descendants of immigrants, but not Gu. She is calls herself both Chinese and American. She is competing in the Olympics for China.

...My brother married a girl who is Korean. Her parents were both born in South Korea and she and her sisters were all born here. I would never call her Korean-American or Asian American. She's just American. And my niece and nephew are American just the same as my two mostly white daughters. I wouldn't fathom calling them Korean-American or Asian American. Just American...

Meanwhile, some of my relatives, who speak only English, who have only American citizenship, who were born in the US to American parents, would take offense if you told them that they're not Italian.

Why are you so rude? I’m really trying not to be rude to you.

Are you Asian, or your just an expert in the Asian experience because of your Asian friends and the books you’ve read? Are you the collective Asian experience in America designated spokesperson? Speak for yourself if you want, but use “I.” My wife and children are Asian, so that probably makes me an expert too?

The minority experience in China also is pretty grim from what I’ve read and my friends from China I’ve spoken too. Yes, I have many. In fact, for many who are mixed Chinese and “other” face lots of hurdles and barriers in Chinese society. Gu is being welcomed because she’s a superstar. She would not be as welcomed if she was just a regular person and not a generational talent, just as members of minority groups who are stars in the USA may be insulated more than regular people from the worst discrimination.

Yes, your previous comments have implicated racism as possibly contributing to Gu’s decision and I’m pointing out that from the public record there is nothing to suggest this is the case for her, and yes I’m done trading on any inside information I know have about her. I don’t know her anywhere close to well enough to know her motivations, but I and my family live in the same community and I do know the general sentiments and experiences of those who inhabit the world in which she grew up. Certainly a lot better then you do.

There seems to be a wide variation in the way children of immigrants grow up in America. I had a close friend in college who had Latvian parents, they spoke Latvian to each other but refused to speak Latvian to him. They wanted him to grow up as an American, and they did everything they could to assimilate and rarely embraced their heritage.

I know Chinese immigrants who speak only Chinese in their home, both the immigrant parents and to the children. The children speak English in school but often are in friend groups where they speak Chinese to each other. It's almost as if they are being raised Chinese but in America.

Not saying either of these approaches is correct or incorrect, but certainly different approaches that might produce children with a differing view.

I mean she can call herself that all she wants. No one can stop her. But it doesn't change the fact that she's 100% American.

AP5000 wrote:

But it doesn't change the fact that she's 100% American.

Fact?

Genetics and citizenship would disagree with you. Those seems like facts.

After she’s lived in China for 10 years is she still 100% American? 20? What if she were 100% Chinese ethnicity? What if she were zero?

the macdaddy og yoo wrote:

AP5000 wrote:

But it doesn't change the fact that she's 100% American.

Fact?

Genetics and citizenship would disagree with you. Those seems like facts.

I think you are confusing nationality with genetics. American is a nationality. So is being Chinese. These aren't races. If you are born in America you are an American.

This whole thing seems to only happen in the US. If you born in America and moved to Italy when you were 10 no one would ever ever call you an Italian or Italian American.

2600 bro wrote:

After she’s lived in China for 10 years is she still 100% American? 20? What if she were 100% Chinese ethnicity? What if she were zero?

I suppose there some grey area if she were to move to China and never come back and renounce her US citizenship then, no, she'd not be an American to me, because this is a nationality issue.

Her being 100% Chinese ethnicity would not be a factor. Again, it's nationality. She's American. She's half Asian and in that she's half Chinese decent...from what I can tell.

My wife has the same thing going on as Gu, but Mexican. She was born in California is half white from her dad being white (born in the US) and half Mexican from her mom being Mexican and born in Mexico. She would never call herself Mexican-American, nor would I, nor would anyone else.

AP5000 wrote:

2600 bro wrote:

After she’s lived in China for 10 years is she still 100% American? 20? What if she were 100% Chinese ethnicity? What if she were zero?

I suppose there some grey area if she were to move to China and never come back and renounce her US citizenship then, no, she'd not be an American to me, because this is a nationality issue.

Her being 100% Chinese ethnicity would not be a factor. Again, it's nationality. She's American. She's half Asian and in that she's half Chinese decent...from what I can tell.

My wife has the same thing going on as Gu, but Mexican. She was born in California is half white from her dad being white (born in the US) and half Mexican from her mom being Mexican and born in Mexico. She would never call herself Mexican-American, nor would I, nor would anyone else.

To clarify a previous post, Chinese is both a nationality and an ethnicity. But it doesn't change the fact that she's 100% American, no different than my wife's example above.

AP5000 wrote:My wife has the same thing going on as Gu, but Mexican. She was born in California is half white from her dad being white (born in the US) and half Mexican from her mom being Mexican and born in Mexico. She would never call herself Mexican-American, nor would I, nor would anyone else.

I don't know if you're being intentionally obtuse or what, but your wife does not have "the same thing going on" as Gu. Gu is classified as a Chinese national by, at a minimum, the government of China, the IOC, and Gu herself. She is publicly presenting herself to the world as a Chinese national.

While her citizenship status is murky, she is likely either a dual citizen or solely a Chinese citizen.

Does this sound like your wife?

Gu's American nationality does not disqualify her from having another nationality, nor would her American passport (if she still has one) disqualify her from having another passport.

I don't know how you define "100% American" or nationality in general, but while you are free to make up whatever you want, you can't insist that everyone else accepts it.

I really don't think you get it. She's adding Chinese to her status simply to compete in the Olympic Games. She is most certainly not solely a Chinese citizen.

Sure, my wife could get Mexican citizenship if she felt like it. Then she would have the exact same status as Gu.

I don't understand how you don't understand that because she was born and raised in America she's an American. I'm mean I'm seriously at a loss here.

Fook that greedy, selfish broad. Stay there ms thang!!!

AP5000 wrote:...She is most certainly not solely a Chinese citizen.

Not a terrible bet, but you "most certainly" don't know that.

Sure, my wife could get Mexican citizenship if she felt like it. Then she would have the exact same status as Gu.

But she doesn't have it, and it sounds like she doesn't want it. Which is the whole point.

I don't understand how you don't understand that because she was born and raised in America she's an American. I'm mean I'm seriously at a loss here.

I never said she wasn't American.

knox harrington wrote:

AP5000 wrote:...She is most certainly not solely a Chinese citizen.

Not a terrible bet, but you "most certainly" don't know that.

We know with 100% certainty that Eileen Gu was born in the United States, which made her a US citizen at birth. To be solely a Chinese citizen, she would have had to fill out legal paperwork to denounce her US citizenship. Anyone denouncing their US citizenship is announced publicly by the US government, in the "Quarterly Publication of Individuals, Who Have Chosen to Expatriate, as Required by Section 6039G" and that hasn't happened for Gu.

Gu also announced that she started competing for China when she was only 15 years old, an age that the US government typically doesn't allow to denounce their citizenship because they are considered too young to make that decision. (Apparently it's not completely impossible for a minor to renounce, but in actual practice it rarely happens.)

So it's very unlikely that Gu would have given up her US citizenship at age 15. Which leaves the past few months since she turned 18. But you have to be out of the country to renounce your citizenship, and Gu has been training in the US.

In order to compete for China in the Olympics you only have to be a Chinese "national" not a Chinese "citizen." So there is no reason for Gu to get rid of her US citizenship to become a Chinese citizen, because she doesn't need to be a Chinese citizen, only a Chinese national. And the IOC allows each country to define for themselves exactly what they consider a national to be. And since China considers Gu to be a Chinese national, the IOC allows her to compete for China, without having to be a Chinese citizen.

AP5000 wrote:

. She would never call herself Mexican-American, nor would I, nor would anyone else.

Not true. I would, while doing the Tijuana reach-around on her.

AP5000 wrote:

I really don't think you get it. She's adding Chinese to her status simply to compete in the Olympic Games. She is most certainly not solely a Chinese citizen.

China does not recognize athletes that don't renounce their other citizenship. She has avoided the question.