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38
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Sonnys wrote:
"According to the latest Washington Institute polling, conducted in July 2023, 57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas—along with similar percentages of Palestinians in the West Bank (52%) and East Jerusalem (64%)"
Well, there it is!
And how many Israeli Jews support not only Bibi but this mass murder currently going on by Israel?
87 -
The Palestinians were offered a state next to Israel by the United Nations in 1948, but turned it down. After Israel’s defeat of 3 invading Arab armies in 1967, Israel offered to negotiate land for peace, but again the Arabs refused.
As recently as 2001 and 2008, under the leadership of the USA, Israel offered the Palestinians up to 95 percent of the West Bank and Gaza, plus a capital in East Jerusalem, but again the Palestinians said NO THANKS.
In 2006 the Palestinians elected HAMAS to lead them.
Where do people get this crazy notion that the Palestinians want peace?148 -
wazzu1452 wrote:
The Palestinians were offered a state next to Israel by the United Nations in 1948, but turned it down. After Israel’s defeat of 3 invading Arab armies in 1967, Israel offered to negotiate land for peace, but again the Arabs refused.
As recently as 2001 and 2008, under the leadership of the USA, Israel offered the Palestinians up to 95 percent of the West Bank and Gaza, plus a capital in East Jerusalem, but again the Palestinians said NO THANKS.
In 2006 the Palestinians elected HAMAS to lead them.
Where do people get this crazy notion that the Palestinians want peace?
The Clinton initiative (2000) was accepted by both sides ‘with reservations’. It was theater on all parties, since Clinton was leaving office, and Ehud Barack was losing re-election to the Ariel Sharon-led Likud who was running on the campaign promise of revoking the agreement (if reached).There was no plan in 2008.
33 -
It is getting pretty old hearing both sides squeal about genocide, war crimes and terrorism. While there are certainly innocent civilians on both sides of the conflict who would gladly make all the concessions needed to have a peaceful and prosperous coexistence, the political factions that are in control and have significant political support among the respective populations is just using cries of war crimes, etc. to make their holy war against the other side palatable to their supporters at home and abroad.
Neither side of this conflict gives two sh#ts about international law or human rights. Those are just the laws of man and they do not apply when you are fighting a holy war for your god. The crazy settlers and IDF on the West Bank do not need judicial process when they evict Palestinians and burn down their home because they are taking land back that was given to them by their god. And when Hamas takes children hostage and slaughters hundreds of civilians, they are fighting a jihad for Islam because their god (and his prophet) said that the 14 acres in Jerusalem are where they must have a mosque in order to have heaven on Earth.
As long as people try to pick who is right and just in this conflict, Israel and Hamas will just keep killing each other and the conflict will never end. It is time to stop pretending that there is a just and right party in this conflict and to understand that these are just religious zealots who will kill each other and try to get every other country to kill each other because their god said it was what they had to do. This conflict will only end when enough international actors are willing to stand in the middle and call out both sides for their idiotic holy war against each other.
66 -
Precious Roy wrote:
It is getting pretty old hearing both sides squeal about genocide, war crimes and terrorism. While there are certainly innocent civilians on both sides of the conflict who would gladly make all the concessions needed to have a peaceful and prosperous coexistence, the political factions that are in control and have significant political support among the respective populations is just using cries of war crimes, etc. to make their holy war against the other side palatable to their supporters at home and abroad.
Neither side of this conflict gives two sh#ts about international law or human rights. Those are just the laws of man and they do not apply when you are fighting a holy war for your god. The crazy settlers and IDF on the West Bank do not need judicial process when they evict Palestinians and burn down their home because they are taking land back that was given to them by their god. And when Hamas takes children hostage and slaughters hundreds of civilians, they are fighting a jihad for Islam because their god (and his prophet) said that the 14 acres in Jerusalem are where they must have a mosque in order to have heaven on Earth.
As long as people try to pick who is right and just in this conflict, Israel and Hamas will just keep killing each other and the conflict will never end. It is time to stop pretending that there is a just and right party in this conflict and to understand that these are just religious zealots who will kill each other and try to get every other country to kill each other because their god said it was what they had to do. This conflict will only end when enough international actors are willing to stand in the middle and call out both sides for their idiotic holy war against each other.
Don't sell that two sides are wrong nonsense.
Israel is an occupier, an oppressor, a mass murder, a racist ethno state with a Lobby that has captured Washington DC.
811 -
Please don't try to sell that bothsidesism bs.
Everything about the Palestinian cause is pure propaganda devoid of facts and logic.
King David founded Jerusalem as the capital of the Jewish kingdom around 1000 BC, before the advent of Islam.
Jerusalem is cited hundreds of times in the Torah and not a single time in the Koran. Jerusalem has never been an Arab capital, and for most of the city’s history, Jews have been the majority population.
There is ZERO ethnic difference between Palestinian Arabs, Syrians and Jordanians. Likewise, Palestinians have no culture peculiar to Palestine, nor do they have strong religious ties to it.
They are ARAB nomads. They weren't even referred to as "palestinians" until the 1970's.
What....they didn't teach this at the university?148 -
Newname wrote:
Precious Roy wrote:
It is getting pretty old hearing both sides squeal about genocide, war crimes and terrorism. While there are certainly innocent civilians on both sides of the conflict who would gladly make all the concessions needed to have a peaceful and prosperous coexistence, the political factions that are in control and have significant political support among the respective populations is just using cries of war crimes, etc. to make their holy war against the other side palatable to their supporters at home and abroad.
Neither side of this conflict gives two sh#ts about international law or human rights. Those are just the laws of man and they do not apply when you are fighting a holy war for your god. The crazy settlers and IDF on the West Bank do not need judicial process when they evict Palestinians and burn down their home because they are taking land back that was given to them by their god. And when Hamas takes children hostage and slaughters hundreds of civilians, they are fighting a jihad for Islam because their god (and his prophet) said that the 14 acres in Jerusalem are where they must have a mosque in order to have heaven on Earth.
As long as people try to pick who is right and just in this conflict, Israel and Hamas will just keep killing each other and the conflict will never end. It is time to stop pretending that there is a just and right party in this conflict and to understand that these are just religious zealots who will kill each other and try to get every other country to kill each other because their god said it was what they had to do. This conflict will only end when enough international actors are willing to stand in the middle and call out both sides for their idiotic holy war against each other.
Don't sell that two sides are wrong nonsense.
Israel is an occupier, an oppressor, a mass murder, a racist ethno state with a Lobby that has captured Washington DC.
Is your whole life about embarrassing yourself? Because you are doing a damn good job of it.
86 -
Precious Roy wrote:
It is getting pretty old hearing both sides squeal about genocide, war crimes and terrorism. While there are certainly innocent civilians on both sides of the conflict who would gladly make all the concessions needed to have a peaceful and prosperous coexistence, the political factions that are in control and have significant political support among the respective populations is just using cries of war crimes, etc. to make their holy war against the other side palatable to their supporters at home and abroad.
Neither side of this conflict gives two sh#ts about international law or human rights. Those are just the laws of man and they do not apply when you are fighting a holy war for your god. The crazy settlers and IDF on the West Bank do not need judicial process when they evict Palestinians and burn down their home because they are taking land back that was given to them by their god. And when Hamas takes children hostage and slaughters hundreds of civilians, they are fighting a jihad for Islam because their god (and his prophet) said that the 14 acres in Jerusalem are where they must have a mosque in order to have heaven on Earth.
As long as people try to pick who is right and just in this conflict, Israel and Hamas will just keep killing each other and the conflict will never end. It is time to stop pretending that there is a just and right party in this conflict and to understand that these are just religious zealots who will kill each other and try to get every other country to kill each other because their god said it was what they had to do. This conflict will only end when enough international actors are willing to stand in the middle and call out both sides for their idiotic holy war against each other.
If Israel cared as little for international law and human rights as the Palestinians do all the Palestinians would be gone already.
87 -
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
458777 wrote:
Dumb F.
You were the one who brought up color in the discussion of Palestinians and Jews....not me.
You were the one who asked why I lived in America. So I just asked you the same question.
Damn...you are one dense Dumb MF
I brought it up as a mental exercise because you are the most racist person I've ever come across.
If the Israelis were a little browner than the Palestinians your position on this would flip completely and you know it.
This a new phantom account of LPD. In the past he has advocated for gang raping of buxom blondes while their cucked husbands watched. Obviously he probably took delight in the accounts of this in settler communities.
This never ending problem will be around long after every poster on here are ashes in the ground or floating in the air.
As long as both sides are at complete odds with each other we will have the classic Star Trek episode shown here...11 -
How many babies has Israel killed this week?
Media never tells us this.
Instead we get fake stories about Hamas cutting off babies heads
57 -
12
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Fantasy Land wrote:
458777 wrote:
SMH...Zionism started about 126 years ago
The conflict between Palestine and Jews is much longer.
How is that difficult for you to understand.
How is it difficult for you to understand that Israel has been oppressing Palestine since 1948.
Zionism is a fantasy that Jerusalem was white European thousands of years ago. Who knew that Jesus, Moses, et al were white Europeans and not natives of the region.
I always thought Moses was a red headed ethnic Scotsman with a gun fetish...11 -
The USA cannot take in any Palestinian "Refugees" for obvious reasons. Islam is 100% incompatible with advanced western democracies.72
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Precious Roy wrote:
It is getting pretty old hearing both sides squeal about genocide, war crimes and terrorism. While there are certainly innocent civilians on both sides of the conflict who would gladly make all the concessions needed to have a peaceful and prosperous coexistence, the political factions that are in control and have significant political support among the respective populations is just using cries of war crimes, etc. to make their holy war against the other side palatable to their supporters at home and abroad.
Neither side of this conflict gives two sh#ts about international law or human rights. Those are just the laws of man and they do not apply when you are fighting a holy war for your god. The crazy settlers and IDF on the West Bank do not need judicial process when they evict Palestinians and burn down their home because they are taking land back that was given to them by their god. And when Hamas takes children hostage and slaughters hundreds of civilians, they are fighting a jihad for Islam because their god (and his prophet) said that the 14 acres in Jerusalem are where they must have a mosque in order to have heaven on Earth.
As long as people try to pick who is right and just in this conflict, Israel and Hamas will just keep killing each other and the conflict will never end. It is time to stop pretending that there is a just and right party in this conflict and to understand that these are just religious zealots who will kill each other and try to get every other country to kill each other because their god said it was what they had to do. This conflict will only end when enough international actors are willing to stand in the middle and call out both sides for their idiotic holy war against each other.
We are living in super polarized times. Taking a view that both sides share some blame causes a trigger fest as you can see from some posters here. I agree with your post except that I don't think those at the top actually have any strong religious views, they simply use that for political gain, money and power.
10 -
wazzu1452 wrote:
Please don't try to sell that bothsidesism bs.
Everything about the Palestinian cause is pure propaganda devoid of facts and logic.
King David founded Jerusalem as the capital of the Jewish kingdom around 1000 BC, before the advent of Islam.
Jerusalem is cited hundreds of times in the Torah and not a single time in the Koran. Jerusalem has never been an Arab capital, and for most of the city’s history, Jews have been the majority population.
There is ZERO ethnic difference between Palestinian Arabs, Syrians and Jordanians. Likewise, Palestinians have no culture peculiar to Palestine, nor do they have strong religious ties to it.
They are ARAB nomads. They weren't even referred to as "palestinians" until the 1970's.
What....they didn't teach this at the university?
This is just silly. Israel was founded based on plans of the British empire after WW I. In 1917, Balfour issued the Balfour Declaration and here was the content (emphasis mine):
"His Majesty's Gov't vie with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object. It being clearly understood that nothing shall be done that may prejudice the civil and religious rights of the existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
The Muslims expanded into the Levant around 630, and contrary to current politics they were the ones who allowed Jews to return to pray in Jerusalem (under Byzantine rule, Jews were barred from Jerusalem).
European artists campaigning to increase Jewish immigration to Palestine famously drew this poster of Jerusalem. Notice what everyone referred to it in the 1930s.
I could on, but I know it won't change your mind. You can keep acting like the 15 million Palestinians were invented in the 1970s if it makes you feel better about yourself. Just don't open a history book, it might make you uncomfortable.
42 -
Trollminator wrote:
Precious Roy wrote:
It is getting pretty old hearing both sides squeal about genocide, war crimes and terrorism. While there are certainly innocent civilians on both sides of the conflict who would gladly make all the concessions needed to have a peaceful and prosperous coexistence, the political factions that are in control and have significant political support among the respective populations is just using cries of war crimes, etc. to make their holy war against the other side palatable to their supporters at home and abroad.
Neither side of this conflict gives two sh#ts about international law or human rights. Those are just the laws of man and they do not apply when you are fighting a holy war for your god. The crazy settlers and IDF on the West Bank do not need judicial process when they evict Palestinians and burn down their home because they are taking land back that was given to them by their god. And when Hamas takes children hostage and slaughters hundreds of civilians, they are fighting a jihad for Islam because their god (and his prophet) said that the 14 acres in Jerusalem are where they must have a mosque in order to have heaven on Earth.
As long as people try to pick who is right and just in this conflict, Israel and Hamas will just keep killing each other and the conflict will never end. It is time to stop pretending that there is a just and right party in this conflict and to understand that these are just religious zealots who will kill each other and try to get every other country to kill each other because their god said it was what they had to do. This conflict will only end when enough international actors are willing to stand in the middle and call out both sides for their idiotic holy war against each other.
We are living in super polarized times. Taking a view that both sides share some blame causes a trigger fest as you can see from some posters here. I agree with your post except that I don't think those at the top actually have any strong religious views, they simply use that for political gain, money and power.
Netanyahu is an old school Zionist who actually fought in many of the major conflicts in the 1960s and lost his brother to a counter-terrorism operation. He comes from the old guard of Ben-Gurion and Golda Meir who won wars instead of negotiating with the Arabs. He definitely believes that Israel belongs to the Jews because his god said so. He has embraced the ultra-orthodox right wing out of political expediency and the need to consolidate power away from the judiciary to keep himself from going to jail. But he is not ultra-orthodox.
Hamas has been clear from the beginning that Palestine belongs to Muslims and cannot coexist with Israel. Hamas' leadership is shadowy and the people who are identified as formal leaders of Hamas may not actually be the ones who are calling all the shots. Hamas has waffled over the years between a more conciliatory approach to Israel and militancy. I think that the waffling has just been political maneuvering to try to stay in power over Fatah and Islamic Jihad. But at its core, the people running Hamas see Palestine as being given to Muslims by god and any infidel that gets in the way can be killed.
All of the peace efforts between Israel and the Palestinians have been submarined by the religious zealots who believe that their god promised them the land and no other. The right wing in Israel assassinated Yitzhak Rabin over the Oslo accords and Ariel Sharon trigger the second Intifada when he visited the Al Aqsa mosque. Hamas and Islamic Jihad then made sure that the Oslo accords were dead by launching bloody suicide bombings on nearly a daily basis in Israel. At every turn either the hard right in Israel or Hamas would make sure that any peace effort or even de-escalation of violence did not last long. This is because both are 100% dedicated to getting back the land that their god gave them. Trying to pick out which side is less bad is futile. they are both nuts and want nothing but death to the other.
52 -
Precious Roy wrote:
Netanyahu is an old school Zionist who actually fought in many of the major conflicts in the 1960s and lost his brother to a counter-terrorism operation. He comes from the old guard of Ben-Gurion and Golda Meir who won wars instead of negotiating with the Arabs. He definitely believes that Israel belongs to the Jews because his god said so. He has embraced the ultra-orthodox right wing out of political expediency and the need to consolidate power away from the judiciary to keep himself from going to jail. But he is not ultra-orthodox.
Hamas has been clear from the beginning that Palestine belongs to Muslims and cannot coexist with Israel. Hamas' leadership is shadowy and the people who are identified as formal leaders of Hamas may not actually be the ones who are calling all the shots. Hamas has waffled over the years between a more conciliatory approach to Israel and militancy. I think that the waffling has just been political maneuvering to try to stay in power over Fatah and Islamic Jihad. But at its core, the people running Hamas see Palestine as being given to Muslims by god and any infidel that gets in the way can be killed.
All of the peace efforts between Israel and the Palestinians have been submarined by the religious zealots who believe that their god promised them the land and no other. The right wing in Israel assassinated Yitzhak Rabin over the Oslo accords and Ariel Sharon trigger the second Intifada when he visited the Al Aqsa mosque. Hamas and Islamic Jihad then made sure that the Oslo accords were dead by launching bloody suicide bombings on nearly a daily basis in Israel. At every turn either the hard right in Israel or Hamas would make sure that any peace effort or even de-escalation of violence did not last long. This is because both are 100% dedicated to getting back the land that their god gave them. Trying to pick out which side is less bad is futile. they are both nuts and want nothing but death to the other.
This is 100% spot on. Couldn’t agree more.
11 -
Precious Roy wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
We are living in super polarized times. Taking a view that both sides share some blame causes a trigger fest as you can see from some posters here. I agree with your post except that I don't think those at the top actually have any strong religious views, they simply use that for political gain, money and power.
Netanyahu is an old school Zionist who actually fought in many of the major conflicts in the 1960s and lost his brother to a counter-terrorism operation. He comes from the old guard of Ben-Gurion and Golda Meir who won wars instead of negotiating with the Arabs. He definitely believes that Israel belongs to the Jews because his god said so. He has embraced the ultra-orthodox right wing out of political expediency and the need to consolidate power away from the judiciary to keep himself from going to jail. But he is not ultra-orthodox.
Hamas has been clear from the beginning that Palestine belongs to Muslims and cannot coexist with Israel. Hamas' leadership is shadowy and the people who are identified as formal leaders of Hamas may not actually be the ones who are calling all the shots. Hamas has waffled over the years between a more conciliatory approach to Israel and militancy. I think that the waffling has just been political maneuvering to try to stay in power over Fatah and Islamic Jihad. But at its core, the people running Hamas see Palestine as being given to Muslims by god and any infidel that gets in the way can be killed.
All of the peace efforts between Israel and the Palestinians have been submarined by the religious zealots who believe that their god promised them the land and no other. The right wing in Israel assassinated Yitzhak Rabin over the Oslo accords and Ariel Sharon trigger the second Intifada when he visited the Al Aqsa mosque. Hamas and Islamic Jihad then made sure that the Oslo accords were dead by launching bloody suicide bombings on nearly a daily basis in Israel. At every turn either the hard right in Israel or Hamas would make sure that any peace effort or even de-escalation of violence did not last long. This is because both are 100% dedicated to getting back the land that their god gave them. Trying to pick out which side is less bad is futile. they are both nuts and want nothing but death to the other.
You really need to read some of the history.
The Arabs tried to kill all of the Jews. They tried in multiple wars and once they figured out they couldn't win that way they turned to terrorism and pretending to be the minority victims.
There is no moral equivalence.
Israeli behavior is a direct response to a century of Arab aggression and the stated Arab goal of genocide.
75 -
No thanks.
51
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