LateRunnerPhil - Tinman Training Through Summer to 5k PR in Sep (Goal ~15:30)

Jan Stensson , Coach JS wrote:

Contact me and we will meet and I will prow to you that everything I have told here is truth and nothing but the truth. ;)

You'll prove you're a real person in public, on the boards. Until then, you're just a pathetic cuckold who can't even keep ahold of a username

high school xc coach wrote:

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Sorry man, you’re being a lunatic. Just hire Tinman. You’re not a spring chicken and you don’t know what you’re doing. You are serious and passionate enough to warrant hiring a coach who will protect your from yourself.

Also a smaller thing, but your PRs are what you run in marked, official races. Time trials or conversions do not count. Everyone adheres by this.

I have no issue with somebody considering a time trial as their PR, as long as they are not a professional and as long they are not looking official accredidation, records, etc. Conversions certainly do not count.

I have to agree PRs are from races. I know it's a weird time now without races, but that doesn't change this. TTs are great for setting paces and seeing where you are at, but PRs are set in races.

SuicidePace wrote:

high school xc coach wrote:

I have no issue with somebody considering a time trial as their PR, as long as they are not a professional and as long they are not looking official accredidation, records, etc. Conversions certainly do not count.

I have to agree PRs are from races. I know it's a weird time now without races, but that doesn't change this. TTs are great for setting paces and seeing where you are at, but PRs are set in races.

If you're not an elite runner, using TT PRs is fine. Say your official 5000m PR is 16:05.94, and then you go to the track and run a TT in 15:59.5 using your watch. You should consider your PR 15:59. Life is too short to be so insanely technical.

cbenson4 wrote:

SuicidePace wrote:

I have to agree PRs are from races. I know it's a weird time now without races, but that doesn't change this. TTs are great for setting paces and seeing where you are at, but PRs are set in races.

If you're not an elite runner, using TT PRs is fine. Say your official 5000m PR is 16:05.94, and then you go to the track and run a TT in 15:59.5 using your watch. You should consider your PR 15:59. Life is too short to be so insanely technical.

I agree that if I run 12.5 laps on a track and time myself I'll count it as a 5k PR, but GPS 100% not unless it's already been measured / wheeled.

Watches are usually off by 100-200 metres, can be even more if there's a ton of turns so I wouldn't call myself a 15:30 guy if it was really more like 15:45-16:00.

Does anyone else find it funny that LRP goes into every thread and brags about how Tinman training is superior and the safest way, and yet he's been constantly injured from that training.

cbenson4 wrote:

SuicidePace wrote:

I have to agree PRs are from races. I know it's a weird time now without races, but that doesn't change this. TTs are great for setting paces and seeing where you are at, but PRs are set in races.

If you're not an elite runner, using TT PRs is fine. Say your official 5000m PR is 16:05.94, and then you go to the track and run a TT in 15:59.5 using your watch. You should consider your PR 15:59. Life is too short to be so insanely technical.

No, your PR is 16:00 (15:59.5 rounded up). If you time yourself on a track, fractions of seconds should be rounded up.

Not sure wrote:

cbenson4 wrote:

If you're not an elite runner, using TT PRs is fine. Say your official 5000m PR is 16:05.94, and then you go to the track and run a TT in 15:59.5 using your watch. You should consider your PR 15:59. Life is too short to be so insanely technical.

I agree that if I run 12.5 laps on a track and time myself I'll count it as a 5k PR, but GPS 100% not unless it's already been measured / wheeled.

Watches are usually off by 100-200 metres, can be even more if there's a ton of turns so I wouldn't call myself a 15:30 guy if it was really more like 15:45-16:00.

Of course. I personally keep separate 5k PRs for road racing, XC, and track. When I was younger, I trusted GPS too much and would often predict my "true" time if my watch measured too short or too long. Now I simply trust the race organizers if my time is around what my training shows.

This thread is sooo good. LRP is so supremely annoying and arrogant!

But it's sooo great, the #2 most annoying poster on LR can't get under his skin. (Magic Man Superior JS Jan Stenson)

LRP's massive ego, will not allow him to deem JS worthy of even a reply and it's driving Jan nuts!

This is sooo good.

One egomaniac destroying his body, and another one, begging to allow him to coach him!

Kudos and carry on.

popcorn and vaseline wrote:

One egomaniac destroying his body, and another one, begging to allow him to coach him!

Kudos and carry on.

xD

+100

I appreciate your insight on these blogs. It motivates me to train harder and smarter.

I probably wil never get into the 16s, but am hoping to get back into the 18s and sub-1:30 for the half. Maybe even 3:10 or better for the full.

Actually, I think LRP is similar to me. I can't run super-fast but running 50-60mpw for me wasn't much of a challenge in terms of staying healthy. I did get worn out toward the end of the training block mentally as the summer of 2019 in Columbus was unusually hot.

I'm better with long-term plans, in terms of putting in big mileage blocks in, getting naturally quicker, then throwing in some speed and hills once my base is there.

How in the hell did he run sub-19 with 17 mpw?

He works his tail off but he has a ton of natural talent to run all of this off little mpw.

I ran 50-60 mpw but couldn't crack 21 in the 5k time trial I did, but in fairness, was tuned for the Marathon when doing that.

I was able to slow down, and I'm a newb, and that allowed me to increase my average mpw 40% and transition from the half to the full with no injuries from 2018 (half) to 2019 (full).

In 2018 I ran no more than 38 mpw and ran 1:39 for a half.

In 2019 I slowed down quite a bit on my EZ runs, did more track work, built volume and averaged 47-51 mpw and ran 3:24 for a full. EZ runs were sometimes as slow as 9:30 (!). But those 28-min. 3-mile blocks in the morning prepped me for faster work and tempos in the afternoon heat by loosening them up.

tl;dr

Going slow enabled me to go faster long-term and run my first full effectively and injury-free.

jecht wrote:

I was able to slow down, and I'm a newb, and that allowed me to increase my average mpw 40% and transition from the half to the full with no injuries from 2018 (half) to 2019 (full).

In 2018 I ran no more than 38 mpw and ran 1:39 for a half.

In 2019 I slowed down quite a bit on my EZ runs, did more track work, built volume and averaged 47-51 mpw and ran 3:24 for a full. EZ runs were sometimes as slow as 9:30 (!). But those 28-min. 3-mile blocks in the morning prepped me for faster work and tempos in the afternoon heat by loosening them up.

tl;dr

Going slow enabled me to go faster long-term and run my first full effectively and injury-free.

Don't sell yourself short. You ran for 2 years and busted out a 3:24 marathon. People don't understand how long it takes to actually become a halfway sorta decent runner. A lot of us started in middle school or early high school. That is a massive foundation that we often take for granted because we've been doing it for so long. Consistency will have you knocking on 3:00 and then 2:50 etc. in no time if you enjoy running.

thanks for the kind words!

I'm nowhere near as fast as eveyrone here but I know I don't know crap and want to learn from people here who have done this.

My goal is Boston by age 40, and that means 4 years of hard work. Not having races this year may be good to build my base up.

So Phil, how's it going, out injured again?

Is that how you keep the ball rolling?

You felt the injury yesterday: "Right ankle pain, throughout the whole run." and yet you ran 1 hour and threw in "5 x 20s strides"?

So today:

"Wednesday, July 1, 2020

Swim

Taking it easy for a bit while my right foot is healing."

But go on, tell yourself that you are an experiment or whatever.

Jesus! It hurts to see a guy with your potential ruining himself and bragging about it.

Why do I care? Really...

Is the whole thread just one guy documenting how dumb his training is for everyone’s entertainment?

Because if it is,count me in ?

fgkyuk wrote:

So Phil, how's it going, out injured again?

It's called Murphy's law. Just when my shin finally got a lot better and I was running faster again, I developed something else.

I did a 95 min long run over hilly, soft trails with new shoes that were excellent on flat road and track before (Altra Escalante). They also felt good during the trail long run, it was very fast at 0 effort. I also changed my running form that day, by running very wide (lots of distance between both legs) which apparently reduces overpronation. 0 pain throughout the run, and fast at no effort. The training in last weeks was very effective (cross training and faster 200s/400s on low rest).

Next day I went shopping and to the barber, did some walking but 0 pain. After, I went for a run, with same shoes as yesterday. I felt strong and went out very quickly, but soon I noticed extreme pain in my right outer foot. After just 1 minute, I walked home and decided to try different shoes (Hoka Clifton) that are very cushioned. Pain got better, 6/10 instead of 9/10 and I decided to do the 1 hour hilly run, since uphill I can still work aerobically without the pressure from fast paces. Also tried to use mostly my left leg for the run.

Somehow made it through the run, but the pain was always there. Did a few breaks to massage the foot. Strides were a lot slower than usual, and with high cadence - very low stride length to reduce pressure.

Once I was home, even walking started to hurt and I couldn't bend my foot downwards and to the right anymore. Had to skip the swimming double, and couldn't bike either due to clipless pedals. Did a 60 min intense core without issue, just had to improvise a side plank and put the weight on my left foot on both sides.

Today it was slightly better, and I went for a short swim. The TT will probably not happen this week, I'm prioritizing the healing of the foot, restoring mobility and then maybe build up slowly again. I screwed up, shouldn't have randomly changed my form, use shoes on surfaces they weren't made for, and certainly shouldn't have ran 60 minutes through on it on a mountain course, again very soft trail. Another experience learned. Injuries are part of the game, and being "talented" and having the ability to run fast, train hard and withstand pain sometimes puts certain runners at higher risk, especially at 165+ lbs and imperfect bio-mechanics.

Phil, take a couple of weeks off. Feet are too complicated and fundamental to run with an injury.