Facts Matter wrote:
here's a number wrote:
[quote]Facts Matter wrote:
You're so dense you don't even realize that accounting for undiagnosed cases brings the death rate DOWN and helps your argument. You appear to have severe comprehension problems and trouble with simple logical reasoning. Might want to turn down the bull horn on your opinions until you gain the reasoning powers of an adult.
Another illiterate, wannabe I see.
You're so eager to reply you missed it again.
Here's what I said:
Accounting for undiagnosed cases? I would love to know how this twit knows how many undiagnosed cases there are and is able to account for them in his math. You cannot just pull $hit straight from your @ss and make it a fact.
He came to a conclusion without giving any evidence. What number did he arrive at? How did he arrive at that number? How is it he came to a definitive conclusion based on that "accounting? It would be clear to anyone with an intellect higher than that of a pet rock that my issue was with the pulling of an undisclosed, unscientifically arrived at number out of his @ss and using it to form a conclusion. You must be a real idiot to think that understanding simple division would be a complex issue. I suggest you take your own advice and brush up on the reading comprehension, because you, like most others, still don't get it.
For the umpteenth time, people need to Calm the F**K Down There are only 41 dead from the coronavirus and there are 20,000 dead from the flu and they are no one is freaking out about the flu deaths. There are no opinions in my point, only facts.
You are a dumb@ss
And that's an opinion
and most likely a fact
If you’re actually interested in how they parameterize their models, you should be reading journal articles and not the news. There are numerous articles published with different sampling and modeling methods. Intensive testing/sampling has been done in Wuhan/Korean/Singapore/etc and they can estimate the number of asymptomatic people have the virus. For example, this cruise ship study that estimates R0. All the asymptomatic people that had contact with infected people had viral nucleic acid testing to verify their exposure:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/32097725/?i=4&from=covid-19%20r0Armstronglivs wrote:
Allen53 wrote:
You are wrong- facts don't matter- what matters is social engineering and blind obedience to authorities who have been shafting you for decades. What matters is listening to "the experts" who have been pushing the same models of "illth" for decades without questioning these heavily invested pill pushers. What matters is being completely ignorant of history and the media's record of lying to you about pretty much everything all the time.
Meanwhile there are serious respiratory issues that are being caused by only by a flu that has a scary name not by the environment in which people are forced to exist:
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9893176Why should anyone pay any attention to you? You talk as though you, too, are an expert- and you tell us experts can't be trusted. If you're not an expert, then what do you know? Right, you're just another conspiracy-theorist.
You happen to be one of the most consistently ill-informed and lock-step goose steppers on this board- and that's saying something. You are no longer capable of having an idea or thought of your own. How many hours of television do you watch per week? Don't lie now.
===================
We count on the experts. We count on them to tell us who to vote for, what to eat, how to raise our children. We watch them on TV, listen to them on the radio, read their opinions in magazine and newspaper articles and letters to the editor. We trust them to tell us what to think, because there's too much information out there and not enough hours in a day to sort it all out.
We should stop trusting them right this second.
In their new book, Trust Us, We're Experts: How Industry Manipulates Science and Gambles with Your Future, Sheldon Rampton and John Stauber offer a chilling exposé on the manufacturing of "independent experts." Public relations firms and corporations have seized upon a slick new way of getting you to buy what they have to sell: Let you hear it from a neutral "third party," like a professor or a pediatrician or a soccer mom or a watchdog group. The problem is, these third parties are usually anything but neutral. They have been handpicked, cultivated, and meticulously packaged to make you believe what they have to say--preferably in an "objective" format like a news show or a letter to the editor. And in some cases, they have been paid handsomely for their "opinions."
For example:
You think that nonprofit organizations just give away their stamps of approval on products? Bristol-Myers Squibb paid $600,000 to the American Heart Association for the right to display AHA's name and logo in ads for its cholesterol-lowering drug Pravachol. Smith Kline Beecham paid the American Cancer Society $1 million for the right to use its logo in ads for Beecham's Nicoderm CQ and Nicorette anti-smoking ads.
You think that you're witnessing a spontaneous public debate over a national issue? When the Justice Department began antitrust investigations of the Microsoft Corporation in 1998, Microsoft's public relations firm countered with a plan to plant pro-Microsoft articles, letters to the editor, and opinion pieces all across the nation, crafted by professional media handlers but meant to be perceived as off-the-cuff, heart-felt testimonials by "people out there."
You think that a study out of a prestigious university is completely unbiased? In 1997, Georgetown University's Credit Research Center issued a study which concluded that many debtors are using bankruptcy as an excuse to wriggle out of their obligations to creditors. Former U.S. Treasury Secretary Lloyd Bentsen cited the study in a Washington Times column and advocated for changes in federal law to make it harder for consumers to file for bankruptcy relief. What Bentsen failed to mention was that the Credit Research Center is funded in its entirety by credit card companies, banks, retailers, and others in the credit industry; that the study itself was produced with a $100,000 grant from Visa USA and MasterCard International Inc.; and that Bentsen himself had been hired to work as a credit-industry lobbyist.
You think that if a scientist says so, it must be true? In the early 1990s, tobacco companies secretly paid thirteen scientists a total of $156,000 to write a few letters to influential medical journals. One biostatistician received $10,000 for writing a single, eight-paragraph letter that was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. A cancer researcher received $20,137 for writing four letters and an opinion piece to the Lancet, the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, and the Wall Street Journal. Nice work if you can get it, especially since the scientists didn't even have to write the letters themselves. Two tobacco-industry law firms were available to do the actual drafting and editing.
Rampton and Stauber reveal many more such examples of "perception management"--all of them orchestrated to make us buy or believe whatever the "independent expert" is pushing. They also explore the underlying assumptions about human psychology--e.g., "the public must be manipulated for its own good"--that make this kind of subliminal hard-sell possible.
https://www.prwatch.org/books/experts.htmlRed Herring Allen69 calling someone a goosestepper!! Ad hominem attack alert! Logical fallacy alert!!!
Allen53 is a conspiracy theorist and a Russian troll. GFY
Draymond wrote:
Allen53 is a conspiracy theorist and a Russian troll. GFY
He’s copying and pasting posts from 8chan
barelybob wrote:
Red Herring Allen69 calling someone a goosestepper!! Ad hominem attack alert! Logical fallacy alert!!!
Followed by facts- best to ignore them- it might hurt your head too much for you to challenge your assumptions and have an independent thought.
Allen53 wrote:
barelybob wrote:
Red Herring Allen69 calling someone a goosestepper!! Ad hominem attack alert! Logical fallacy alert!!!
Followed by facts- best to ignore them- it might hurt your head too much for you to challenge your assumptions and have an independent thought.
Allen53, how much are they paying you to spread lies?
Why should we trust these guys who say we shouldn’t trust the experts? What is their agenda?
Is the solution that everyone makes up their own mind based strictly on their own feelings and impressions despite what somebody who actually is learned in the topic has to say?
Nobody thinks those things. We all learned to think for ourselves long ago.
No one is surprised by the existence of corporate PR campaigns. It’s interesting that you should pick Big Tobacco to bolster your argument. In the 80s they were busy spreading the same sort of denialism, misinformation and strawman arguments that feed this thread.
Raggedman wrote:
Why should we trust these guys who say we shouldn’t trust the experts? What is their agenda?
Is the solution that everyone makes up their own mind based strictly on their own feelings and impressions despite what somebody who actually is learned in the topic has to say?
Thank you. They are obviously trolls from 8chan employee to wreak havoc. The Brojos have done nothing about it. So far I’ve only seen them ban people highlighting the trolls but not the trolls themselves. Shows you where their priorities are. Lots of people think what they read on these boards are true and many people could die from this misinformation
Draymond wrote:
Raggedman wrote:
Why should we trust these guys who say we shouldn’t trust the experts? What is their agenda?
Is the solution that everyone makes up their own mind based strictly on their own feelings and impressions despite what somebody who actually is learned in the topic has to say?
Thank you. They are obviously trolls from 8chan employee to wreak havoc. The Brojos have done nothing about it. So far I’ve only seen them ban people highlighting the trolls but not the trolls themselves. Shows you where their priorities are. Lots of people think what they read on these boards are true and many people could die from this misinformation
More lunacy- you just slander someone (who doesn't even know what 8chan is) and want them banned because you can't stomach anything other than the same dogmatic nonsense that has brought us to this point.
You are so thoroughly indoctrinated that the idea that one of the most polluted cities in China with elderly individuals whose respiratory and immune systems are so compromised that they can't ward off the flu is an idea that can only come from conspiracy theorists.
Whose paying you to ask for censoring others?
And you know this is not exclusive to this- you have no critical thinking skills and that extends to all facets of the "news" and information that you come across. Turn off your TV.
Raggedman wrote:
Why should we trust these guys who say we shouldn’t trust the experts? What is their agenda?
Is the solution that everyone makes up their own mind based strictly on their own feelings and impressions despite what somebody who actually is learned in the topic has to say?
Simple. The experts told us millions would die by 2010 (2015, 2020, 2030 etc) as the oceans rise due to global warming (climate change, fill in the latest code words).
How did we dispose of all those millions of bodies? Why wasn't the local 5K cancelled then?
So confusing.....
This from an Italian poster in the thread about the deaths in Italy:
Well yes is true the numbers reported are still very high yesterday 170 day before yesterday 250.
But there's a lot of talk about these numbers.
As you may know a very high % of death case are people with an average age of 81 /83 years old and with a number 1 to 4 of others diseases.
All these people had Covid -19 but they never study( they say they will do in a second time) if the death has been caused by pre-existent diseases or in some way by Covid-19.
The cases of death of people with no pre-existent diseases with Covid-19 are very very few.
This is an important point, I m not trying to minimize the thing, but for example in France and in Germany seems that they have a more accurate way to report the death from Covid-19.
Example if somebody dies because a pre- existent diseases and still have the Covid-19.
It s not reported as a Covid-19 death.
It's a complicated thing in any way to calculate but it can be a huge difference in the final percentage of death case.
What is true is that in the worst scenario possible this Covid-19 causes a bad interstitial pneumonia that need intensive care, it's easy to understand that for somebody that already has serious pre-existent diseases it can be too hard to stand the intensive care and drugs to treat it.
But important to say that there is also an high percentage of people of 80 years old and more that can overcome this Covid-19 flu.
Allen53 wrote:
This from an Italian poster in the thread about the deaths in Italy:
Well yes is true the numbers reported are still very high yesterday 170 day before yesterday 250.
But there's a lot of talk about these numbers.
As you may know a very high % of death case are people with an average age of 81 /83 years old and with a number 1 to 4 of others diseases.
All these people had Covid -19 but they never study( they say they will do in a second time) if the death has been caused by pre-existent diseases or in some way by Covid-19.
The cases of death of people with no pre-existent diseases with Covid-19 are very very few.
This is an important point, I m not trying to minimize the thing, but for example in France and in Germany seems that they have a more accurate way to report the death from Covid-19.
Example if somebody dies because a pre- existent diseases and still have the Covid-19.
It s not reported as a Covid-19 death.
It's a complicated thing in any way to calculate but it can be a huge difference in the final percentage of death case.
What is true is that in the worst scenario possible this Covid-19 causes a bad interstitial pneumonia that need intensive care, it's easy to understand that for somebody that already has serious pre-existent diseases it can be too hard to stand the intensive care and drugs to treat it.
But important to say that there is also an high percentage of people of 80 years old and more that can overcome this Covid-19 flu.
Blood is on your hands. People will die from your misinformation and the FBI will be able to subpoena your IP address from LRC when all is said and done. Your 8Chan buddies won’t be able to save you.
Draymond wrote:
Allen53 wrote:
This from an Italian poster in the thread about the deaths in Italy:
Well yes is true the numbers reported are still very high yesterday 170 day before yesterday 250.
But there's a lot of talk about these numbers.
As you may know a very high % of death case are people with an average age of 81 /83 years old and with a number 1 to 4 of others diseases.
All these people had Covid -19 but they never study( they say they will do in a second time) if the death has been caused by pre-existent diseases or in some way by Covid-19.
The cases of death of people with no pre-existent diseases with Covid-19 are very very few.
This is an important point, I m not trying to minimize the thing, but for example in France and in Germany seems that they have a more accurate way to report the death from Covid-19.
Example if somebody dies because a pre- existent diseases and still have the Covid-19.
It s not reported as a Covid-19 death.
It's a complicated thing in any way to calculate but it can be a huge difference in the final percentage of death case.
What is true is that in the worst scenario possible this Covid-19 causes a bad interstitial pneumonia that need intensive care, it's easy to understand that for somebody that already has serious pre-existent diseases it can be too hard to stand the intensive care and drugs to treat it.
But important to say that there is also an high percentage of people of 80 years old and more that can overcome this Covid-19 flu.
Blood is on your hands. People will die from your misinformation and the FBI will be able to subpoena your IP address from LRC when all is said and done. Your 8Chan buddies won’t be able to save you.
Serious amounts of blood. Factual information violates the 1st amendment. Freedom of speech pertains only to people who talk out of their buttcheeks. This isn’t Vietnam, there are rules. Next time you want to think for yourself keep it to yourself.
In case it’s not obvious I’m joking I’m your biggest fan Allen
Yes, well said. The American public is too dumb to see reason
Allen and Facts Matter are 8chan trolls (either friends or the same person) who came here to spread lies.