Sub 2h30 Fall Marathon

@mikemike - yes, indeed, that number 492 was me :) funny that actually I was well positioned at the start that the TV camera filmed me for about 10 seconds and some friends and family could recognised me from abroad.

on the mileage I think you are right - I can look at why I did not get the 2h30 in two ways, one is the little imperfections that I commented above; but the second is certainly and simpler that I did not run enough. That's an area that I'll certainly work on improving for the next time.

but other than that, we can never forget on how hard running a sub 2h30 is... especially in (what I believe is the conditions of everyone here! at some extent) the "amateur runner" life, sharing it with work, family, etc. We were all very close but it is kind of expected

@marathonnoob - your workouts look great and as comparison, one of my best workouts was 25 km @ 2h32 pace. I passed the half mark in 75 high in this workout, and at race day could handle the Half in 1h14:36 and was feeling great at that point. Honestly your workouts look considerably better than this and I would not be surprised if you run a 2h28. Best of luck!

@smoove - funny that we ended up running nearly identical races; are you running Boston next year?

1h14:36 / 1h16:05 - 2h30:41

1h14:42 / 1h16:01 - 2h30:43

@crash and burn - crazy that you got so close! 2h30:01... wow. Thanks for sharing your experience. Same question.. are you in for Boston? where are you running to get your sub 2h30?

@immunorunner thanks for the good wishes!

@reed - seems like you're picking it up; keep the mileage up and perhaps you want to start putting some track workouts after a few more weeks? looks like your trainings are going the right way.

@smoove, I actually did not see your message before answering above. Nice comparison! And it also looks like we struggled at around the same time in the race... what do you attribute that for? getting the calves piece right? would that be related to mileage?

I hope that in 2019 we get a larger group running together for attempting the 2h30; it would be nice to form a group of LetsRunners at the same race going out at 1h14 low or so. I was jealous about you guys in Chicago! Amateur level was much better with roughly 100 runners breaking 2h30. That was twice as much as in Amsterdam.

rfmaioral wrote:

@smoove - funny that we ended up running nearly identical races; are you running Boston next year?

Almost definitely not. You saw enough snippets of my training throughout this thread to know that my body was really challenged in trying to hold up to the volume necessary to properly prepare for the marathon distance . I suspect that you and I had lower overall volume than just about anyone else on this thread, especially if you discount my time on the elliptical. As a result of all of that, I had decided before this cycle started that this would be my last marathon, at least for the foreseeable future.

If I do run another, my guess is that it will be when I move into the 50-54 age group, which is, shockingly to me, just three years and a couple of months from now - yikes! I will never say never, but that was my though process coming into this cycle and nothing changed during the cycle to make me feel differently about that.

Congratulations on the race yesterday in Amsterdam! I’ve enjoyed following everyone’s this thread and am planning to take a shot at, at the very least, low 2:30s in Philadelphia in 4 weeks. I have been hesitant to post because I was coming off injury and my fitness is only now starting to come together.

Significant workouts from the build thus far

35k steady @3:45/k (6:02/mile)

30k steady @ 5:56/mile

24 miles steady at 6:08/mile

4 x 2 miles avg 10:59, and a separate 4 x 2 mile session cutting from 11:13 to 10:44

Raced a fairly hilly half marathon last weekend in 1:11-high

My shorter distance work this cycle has not been great. I raced a 5k in 16:10, which, based on the tables, should probably be at least :30 faster based on the half marathon.

Mileage has been averaging mid to high 90s, although my pace on non workout days is very easy.

Right now I’m estimating 2:32-2:33 fitness. My marathon PR is only 2:35 although I have a 1:11-mid personal best in the half.

mikemike wrote:

@reed - nice mileage, I bet your fitness will come back quickly. I think it's smart to not rush it and wait until your legs start to pop before you begin pushing for a marathon. I would just be careful though as you might hit fitness and peak quicker than expected and don't want to wait too long. I have a friend who has been scared of re-attempting the marathon for years despite crushing workouts as he wants to be at 100% instead of 98%.

I'm surprised by several of the people on this thread that hit workouts that would have made me think that 2:30 was definitely in the bag. I wonder if the lack of consistent really high mileage was the missing factor?

I think it's partially people not knowing what MP feels like in their first couple attempts. You can't really know until you've had a perfect race or if you're a heart-rate guy.

as for missing my peak, the way I'm planning to train for the next several months definitely won't have me feeling like I'm peaking for a marathon. One thing I'll be doing that I don't normally do for a marathon will be very long training runs, like 25+ miles many weeks. That's something that some people like to do for a marathon. I know Galen Rupp has run over 26 miles in training, as has Shalane Flanagan and Yuki Kawauchi off the top of my head. That might be something I try next time, especially because it's good for my long-term ultramarathon plans.

rfm - nice report. feeling bad in the taper is normal, I almost always am afraid of getting sick in the couple days prior to the marathon. I think an extra gel after km 30 would have been very helpful for you, even though you were feeling good until 37km. I've even taken a gel after 37km before just to be sure I was still fueled for the last mile or two.

forget the 16:10...with a 71min half and those long runs around 6min pace, you should be set for 2:29-2:31 on a fast course with the right weather. I ran 2:32high and would be terrified to even try those long runs you did, although I did run better than 16:10 for 5k during training and was in shape for probably 72:00ish in a half. those 4x2mi workouts could be a little better but I'm guessing those are slower than tempo effort so it's not concerning.

I’ve been following and enjoying this thread for a while. And though it’s been great hearing about everyone’s journey, it made me a bit pessimistic about my own goals. Most of the workouts here sound like they’d be a real stretch for me. I was starting to think that my two year old PR (2:32:45) was my ceiling, and that age (35) was starting to catch up with me. A couple of disastrous tuneup races (6 minute pace and slower) had me really down about this cycle.

One thing I have going for me is that I’ve really adapted to high mileage. While I don’t know that I will ever break 16 again in a 5k, I have gotten to where 110-120 feels totally normal. In fact, I’ve actually gotten so that I can do a full marathon at 90% effort in training and not even need a recover week. So while I’m targeting CIM this December, I decided to run Baltimore last weekend as a hard workout.

It went shockingly well. Over the first 20 miles, I checked my Garmin constantly, and every pace adjustment I made was to slow down. I felt so relaxed. On the back half of the course a bike escort told me I was in second and that the gap was 50 seconds. Then 40. Then 25. I took over first around 20.5 feeling great. I did a little math and realized that 2:30 wasn’t out of the question, so I put in 4 hard miles. That finally hurt. Eventually I realized that 2:30 wasn’t happening, so I eased up a hair to enjoy the last mile. Broke the tape in 2:30:26. I split 77:20/73:06. Next morning I did 4 easy, and the legs felt fine. Very flat, but no pain. Or soreness at all.

So while I didn’t quite get the 2:30 I’ve been chasing, I’ve got a PR I’m thrilled with, and now I’m thinking I’ve got nothing to lose by being much more aggressive at CIM.

I guess if there’s a moral, it’s to be patient because you never know when running will finally decide to pay you back.

Sounds like a great effort at the Baltimore Marathon and good things ahead at CIM. Not to take anything away from the race, but wasn’t the course found to be about 1200m short?

What??? Where did you hear that? I’m not seeing any suddenly suspicious splits. GPS recorded 26.4: https://www.strava.com/activities/1916468229/overview.

Early thought is to maybe go for it at Grandma’s up in Duluth. Has anyone in this thread run there before? Competition looks good for guys around our ability level but I’m wondering how big of a wildcard weather can be with the race being in mid June.

Someone posted a thread about it here on Letsrun. Sounds like that thread was BS. Congrats on the PR!

Crash and Burn wrote:

Early thought is to maybe go for it at Grandma’s up in Duluth. Has anyone in this thread run there before? Competition looks good for guys around our ability level but I’m wondering how big of a wildcard weather can be with the race being in mid June.

That’s exactly right. It’s literally the only chance to run fast that late, and if you get cool weather and a tailwind, it is smokin fast, but it’s often hot. I dropped out at 16 back in 2009, and it was brutal. I was so dehydrated I didn’t pee for 12 hours. I know people who ran massive PRs there, so I can’t say don’t do it, but it’s rolling the dice.

Damn, that sounds brutal but thanks for the input. It looks like it’s been mostly good recently but you just don’t know. The Illinois Marathon is another option but there just isn’t near the competition. I could plan on both Grandma’s and Chicago next year and just hope the weather cooperates for at least one. Decisions, decisions.

That's an amazing run Jreddy! That negative split is unreal. What is your training like year round? Do you have a base phase followed by an event specific one before a taper, or is it mainly just high mileage all the time? I would also be curious to hear more about your workout/long run progression leading up to the marathon.

@Prop Joe, I'm also seriously considering Grandma's this year. Historically the weather seems to be ok, although there have been some scorchers recently...I live in the midwest though and I'm not sure what my other options would be semi-locally for a fast course with strong competition.

Reed, thanks for the vote of confidence. I’m cautiously optimistic for Philadelphia. For whatever reason the long runs at 95% mp or faster are pretty doable and recovery is pretty smooth.

JReddy, wow! Inspiring race. Thanks for sharing. Looks like a hilly course as well. Yeah, I must say that I too would find some of the workouts being thrown down on here to be completely out of reach. I’m 37 and maybe in kind of the same boat as far as being suited for longer races. (Although thus far I have not been able to translate this into a really strong marathon).

Slo, you live in Philly?

phillyphilly wrote:

Slo, you live in Philly?

I’m outside NYC.

Jreddy wrote:

Crash and Burn wrote:

Early thought is to maybe go for it at Grandma’s up in Duluth. Has anyone in this thread run there before? Competition looks good for guys around our ability level but I’m wondering how big of a wildcard weather can be with the race being in mid June.

That’s exactly right. It’s literally the only chance to run fast that late, and if you get cool weather and a tailwind, it is smokin fast, but it’s often hot. I dropped out at 16 back in 2009, and it was brutal. I was so dehydrated I didn’t pee for 12 hours. I know people who ran massive PRs there, so I can’t say don’t do it, but it’s rolling the dice.

Jreddy, I'll warn you that just because you feel good one day after a marathon doesn't mean you're in the clear. I felt fine after Boston this year but a few days later developed ITBS. Clearly you're in sub 2:30 shape and a few days off won't hurt. Just take the time to recover as CIM is still 6 weeks away or so. Rest!!!

Crash and Burn wrote:

Early thought is to maybe go for it at Grandma’s up in Duluth. Has anyone in this thread run there before? Competition looks good for guys around our ability level but I’m wondering how big of a wildcard weather can be with the race being in mid June.

I made my marathon debut at Grandma's this year and can't say enough positive things about it. I am nowhere near y'all (2:48), but would definitely recommend that course. It's fast and while the weather can be a crap shoot, from what I heard, you could luck into great weather days like we had this year.