top Canadian coach calls out drug cheats beating his athletes

Um, yeah wrote:

SB wrote:

It is for precisely this reason that Hugh Cameron of Athletics Toronto volunteered to sit on the 2015 board. He wanted to see up close how it operated, and to make sure everything was kosher in 2015. Long story short, he resigned from the board after having been "out voted" on the SR nominations.

By 'board', are you referring to the AO Board of Directors or just the QfG committee (which is made up of largely non-board members)?

I think he just wrote 'board' instead of QfG committee by accident.

don't swim in the dirty river wrote:

fred wrote:

How many guys living there ran sub 13:30 last year?

0. The exact same as the number of Speed River coaches that I still trust.

But I think we'll see some sub-13:30s from Vancouver based athletes quite soon, as more people move from Guelph out to Vancouver.

You are a moron.

Bruchet - 5000m - 13:29.79 Ninove (BEL) 01.08.2015

Hey let's just cancel the national champs this year and let the corrupt committee decide the top 3 people for each event. I'd bet on speed river athletes getting a lot of favourtism and top 3s.

Is the Vancouver group good or not? Someone earlier called it injury-ville.

Is it possible that there's no corruption going on and Speed River is just very poorly organized? As Jeremy Rae pointed out, it's really difficult to plan out a season that satisfies the criteria in these documents, and it sounds like the Guelph coaches are having a particularly hard time of it. Maybe if Athletics Ontario put together some sort of tutorial that could walk them through step by step and help them understand things like Quest for Gold carding, that would really help Moulton and DSt out.

No, injury-ville is the location Guelph women end up in, usually in their 2nd or 3rd year with the group.

There are several groups in the Vancouver area, good assortment of talented athletes and dedicated coaches. People are moving out here all the time. The more the merrier.

regina f wrote:

Is the Vancouver group good or not? Someone earlier called it injury-ville.

CBC Sports:

"Once again, Dylan Wykes faces a big challenge before his next marathon.

How long and difficult the road back will be this time is unclear.

The 32-year-old Canadian, who has not completed a marathon since the 2012 London Olympics, was competing at the Fukuoka International Open Marathon Championship in Japan on Sunday when he was forced to exit midway through the 42-kilometre event with a sore posterior tibial tendon, one of the most important tendons in the lower leg."

I think it's the criteria that needs to be re-worked. Hesitant to say the criteria need to be "improved" as it may be impossible to create perfect criteria, but the committee did a great job. Problem is nobody seems to agree that there is anything wrong with the criteria to begin with. Make no mistake. The athletes that received cards are all deserving. Some more than others.

Your top 5000m and 10000m runners got carded and that's a good result considering they are 3:39, 13:28 and 28:53 runners. Phenomenal times. The points they scored on the criteria spreadsheet are irrelevant. They are outliers. They are both superior performers. Yes. Card them. Whoever decided to card them did a good job.

AO criteria that weights performance heavily towards AO Champ participation? Sorry. Top performers are chasing standards and PBs. They go where the competition is and it's not at your meets. Fact.

To resolve this start with the AO membership and exclude those who don't meet residency requirements etc etc etc. Don't allow them to be members in the first place if you won't card them, or you make them file for an exception to get carded. Just step up and define AO membership so that all members have equal access to funding. Period. Then you can eliminate pages of criteria which seem designed to exclude various factions of your membership from carding/support.

I believe everyone involved is well-intentioned. Some leadership is required to steer this organization through some of these carding issues. With all the parties involved in this thread surely some positive comments can be put forth that will help get funding to the best athletes in Ontario track/field/X country.

SR members seem to be high performers so naturally they will have many carded athletes.

So right wrote:

Your top 5000m and 10000m runners got carded and that's a good result considering they are 3:39, 13:28 and 28:53 runners. Phenomenal times. The points they scored on the criteria spreadsheet are irrelevant. They are outliers. They are both superior performers. Yes. Card them. Whoever decided to card them did a good job.

3:39, 13:28, 28:53??? Say what?!?!?!

These are the top 2015 Ontario runners:

3:35.42 NWI BRANNEN, NATHAN

13:10.00 NWI AHMED, MOHAMMED

13:19.56 NWI HUGHES, MATTHEW ON

27:46.90 NWI AHMED, MOHAMMED

4:06.97 NWI REID, SHEILA

4:07.08 NWI GOLLISH, SASHA

4:07.44 NWI STAFFORD, GABRIEL

15:44.96 NWI VAN BUSKIRK, KATE

31:46.94 NWI MARCHANT, LANNI

32:36.17 NWI HANNAH, RACHEL

I know it can be confusing for you guys, but there are other Athletics Ontario runners.

sum choi wrote:

[quote]So right wrote:

These are the top 2015 Ontario runners:

3:35.42 NWI BRANNEN, NATHAN

I know it can be confusing for you guys, but there are other Athletics Ontario runners.

Nate lived in Michigan, Florida and Ohio.

When was the last time that Nate Brannen lived in Ontario?

15 years ago?

Does he get funding from Ontario? If so, why?

Aaron Hendrikx won CIS cross country 2015. He lived in Ontario for the past 15 years. Why shouldn't he get some money to develope his talent, and move his career along.

fred wrote:

Aaron Hendrikx won CIS cross country 2015. He lived in Ontario for the past 15 years. Why shouldn't he get some money to develope his talent, and move his career along.

Because that money should be going to Alex Ullman. Or Nathan Hessman. Or anyone else better qualified, based on the criteria, who didn't submit fraudulent application data.

sum choi wrote:

So right wrote:

Your top 5000m and 10000m runners got carded and that's a good result considering they are 3:39, 13:28 and 28:53 runners. Phenomenal times. The points they scored on the criteria spreadsheet are irrelevant. They are outliers. They are both superior performers. Yes. Card them. Whoever decided to card them did a good job.

3:39, 13:28, 28:53??? Say what?!?!?!

These are the top 2015 Ontario runners:

3:35.42 NWI BRANNEN, NATHAN

13:10.00 NWI AHMED, MOHAMMED

13:19.56 NWI HUGHES, MATTHEW ON

27:46.90 NWI AHMED, MOHAMMED

4:06.97 NWI REID, SHEILA

4:07.08 NWI GOLLISH, SASHA

4:07.44 NWI STAFFORD, GABRIEL

15:44.96 NWI VAN BUSKIRK, KATE

31:46.94 NWI MARCHANT, LANNI

32:36.17 NWI HANNAH, RACHEL

I know it can be confusing for you guys, but there are other Athletics Ontario runners.

I could be wrong, but I don't think any of the top Athletics Ontario 1500m, 5000m, or 10000m runners on this list are part of the Speed River club. Maybe in previous years they were, but not in 2015.

When I see things like "Phenomenal times" and "They are outliers" I really wonder if some of the posters here actually know what they're talking about. Anyone who is an 'outlier' running phenomenal times isn't part of this discussion, because they will easily earn National carding, like Matt Hughes in the Steeplechase. The Speed River athletes mentioned are very good, to be sure, and for some reason chose not to do what their peers did and ensure they earned provincial carding. If running provincial championships is beneath them, then so is getting provincial carding.

So right wrote:

AO criteria that weights performance heavily towards AO Champ participation? Sorry. Top performers are chasing standards and PBs. They go where the competition is and it's not at your meets. Fact.

Why are there people who insist on ignoring what is written rather clearly?

There is no such thing as a free lunch and just like everything else in life there is some quid pro quo.

If you want some money from Ontario, they ask that you support their championships by competing and placing well there in addition to being a fast runner.

Similarly, if your school offered an entrance scholarship for a top student entering nursing, you aren't going to demand that someone entering engineering get it because they are 'really deserving' and a great student. Being a great student is only half the criteria - you also need to be entering nursing.

If you aren't interested in supporting the Ontario championships, then there are other more 'deserving' athletes who run fast who will get the money.

stop ignoring the criteria wrote:

fred wrote:

Aaron Hendrikx won CIS cross country 2015. He lived in Ontario for the past 15 years. Why shouldn't he get some money to develope his talent, and move his career along.

Because that money should be going to Alex Ullman. Or Nathan Hessman. Or anyone else better qualified, based on the criteria, who didn't submit fraudulent application data.

Ullman, Bishop and Bellemore

Very well said.

I'm amazed at how some of these people will race as much as they do collegiately, doubling and tripling at conference to try and win team titles, and yet a single race at their Ontario Championships that helps them get carding money is too onerous.

fred wrote:

sum choi wrote:

[quote]So right wrote:

These are the top 2015 Ontario runners:

3:35.42 NWI BRANNEN, NATHAN

I know it can be confusing for you guys, but there are other Athletics Ontario runners.

Nate lived in Michigan, Florida and Ohio.

When was the last time that Nate Brannen lived in Ontario?

15 years ago?

Does he get funding from Ontario? If so, why?

Do people write these kinds of responses when Canadians that live in the US get AC carding??

This thread and the Trackie one are really strange. Never before have I seen athletes post the way Jeremy Rae and Ross Proudfoot did: they clearly cared enough to make multiple posts in the threads, but it's like somebody told them to stop and they just disappeared. Similarly their coach Chris Moulton made one post about not discussing things with committee members, but avoided a very straight-forward follow-up question.

I realize no one from Speed River is required to be publicly accountable. However, these three all chose to discuss this topic publicly and then to leave the discussion in a manner that very, very strongly suggests they have things to hide.

Coupled with the posts about Athletics Ontario refusing to be transparent, nominations changing, and a committee member quitting, I struggle to reach any conclusion other than some kind of scandal, however minor, did indeed take place or at the very least was attempted.