It's too damn hard to run a sub 5 mile

Moo G wrote:

You're long way off running a 5 minute mile. You have to be around 17:30 5K. Why so many intervals?

I agree a 17:30 5k is a good indicator that one can run sub 5 but I can add a data point against it being necessary for everyone. A few years back I ran a 2:07 800 in late April and a 4:48 full mile in late August. That same July I could only muster a 5K in the 18:50s.

Last week's training:

Saturday (10/30) - 2x200 in 42", 400 in 89", 1.5 mile solo time trial in 8:46. Didn't wear spikes.

Sun (10/31) - 15x400

M (11/1) - 6x1300

T (11/2) - 20x200

W (11/3) - off

Th (11/4) - 6x1300

F (11/5) - 14x400

Sat (11/6) - 2x200 in 41", 400 in 85", then spiked up and ran a 3:48.72 1200

It seems that for me, the Easy Interval Method produces faster times for longer distances (1.5 miles and up), but slower times for anything shorter than 2 km. My times in February, when I was running around 24 MPW, were:

Saturday (2/13) - 1.5 miles in 8:52 (6 seconds slower than last week)

Saturday (2/20) - 1200 in 3:45.12 (3.6 seconds faster than today).

Comparing February and now, one of the missing ingredients was hard 200-700 repeats with long recoveries. I'll add them back in.

elusive dreams.- wrote:

Sat (10/30) - ...1.5 miles in 8:46 in trainers

Sat (11/6) - ...1200 in 3:48.72 in spikes

It seems that for me, the Easy Interval Method produces faster times for longer distances (1.5 miles and up), but slower times for anything shorter than 2 km. My times in February, when I was running around 24 MPW, were:

Sat (2/13) - 1.5 miles in 8:52 in trainers

Sat (2/20) - 1200 in 3:45.12 in spikes

Okay, I take that back. I re-did the 1200m time trial this evening and ran a 3:42.59. My splits were almost perfectly even - high 36 at 200, 74" at 400, 1:51 at 600, and 3:05 at 1000m.

The only notable difference (besides the times) was that I wore the Dragonflies instead of the MD-X. Yesterday's run felt like I was wearing regular spikes, but today's run felt like I was running downhill on a trampoline. My recent times compared with February's times also make sense - a bit less than 3 seconds faster in the 1200, and 6 seconds faster in the 1.5 mile.

I don't personally know anyone who has both the MD-X and the Dragonflies, but based on my experience, I really wouldn't recommend the MD-X unless you're running the 800 or are going faster than 4:30/mile pace. Since January, I haven't had a bad run in the Dragonflies, while my only good runs in the MD-X was when I was going faster than 66"/lap.

I took a 10-15 minute break after the 3:42.59 1200 PR and did a 13x400. I think that elusive sub 5 mile is finally within striking distance.

elusive dreams.- wrote:

elusive dreams.- wrote:

Sat (10/30) - ...1.5 miles in 8:46 in trainers

Sat (11/6) - ...1200 in 3:48.72 in spikes

It seems that for me, the Easy Interval Method produces faster times for longer distances (1.5 miles and up), but slower times for anything shorter than 2 km. My times in February, when I was running around 24 MPW, were:

Sat (2/13) - 1.5 miles in 8:52 in trainers

Sat (2/20) - 1200 in 3:45.12 in spikes

Okay, I take that back. I re-did the 1200m time trial this evening and ran a 3:42.59. My splits were almost perfectly even - high 36 at 200, 74" at 400, 1:51 at 600, and 3:05 at 1000m.

The only notable difference (besides the times) was that I wore the Dragonflies instead of the MD-X.

So that explains why the MD-X is readily available at Running Warehouse, while the Dragonflies are nearly impossible to get in size 5-11.

The Indianapolis wrote:

Moo G wrote:

You're long way off running a 5 minute mile. You have to be around 17:30 5K. Why so many intervals?

I agree a 17:30 5k is a good indicator that one can run sub 5 but I can add a data point against it being necessary for everyone. A few years back I ran a 2:07 800 in late April and a 4:48 full mile in late August. That same July I could only muster a 5K in the 18:50s.

Ouch. Was that 5K on a tough course in 100 degree weather or something?

A rough guide is that your solo 1200 pace should equal your 1500 pace in a race. So 3:42.59 1200 = 4:38.24 1500 = 5:00.5 mile.

I ran my first sub 11 3K last night, despite having to weave through groups of walkers in lanes 1 and 2. I got a 10:59.4, and my splits were 3:42 at 1000 and 7:21 at 2000.

Last week's log:

Monday (11/8) - 6x1450

T (11/9) - off

W (11/10) - 22x200

Th (11/11) - 6x1450

F (11/12) - 15x400

S (11/13) - 2x200 in 40", 400 in 85", 3000 in 10:59, 600, 500, 100 (untimed, but run hard with full recovery)

Sunday (11/14) - 17x400

I pulled up some old results and saw that I ran a 4:56.24 1500 on 1/18/20, followed by a 11:39.40 3000 that same day about two hours later. So hopefully last night's result means that I'm in sub 5 territory.

Anyway, how has your training been going?

IDK if you are aware but a 4:20 mile is not fast for high school.

You’re looking really strong!! This style of training is working for you and you are making terrific strides with endurance, which should translate when lowering that mile PR!

I’ve had several positives with training with but a not so great performance in my one mile race. The pressure was getting to me in the summer and I didn’t perform well that day. Then focused a little more on endurance in training and lowered my 5k by 36 seconds, which was thrilling!

When the season was over, I did a solo mile TT on the track and hit 5:07. It’s the best I’ve done on the track. Thought I could do 5:05 or better and despite running uneven in the first 600m, I was in position after 1450m, but my legs ran out of gas with 150m to go.

I think with better pacing, feeling a little fresher, and if I had some competition, there’s reason to think I could have shaved a few seconds…woulda coulda shoulda til I do it. But there is reason for optimism.

Right now I’m building back up after a little down time and hoping to make another attempt in a few months. My plan is to build explosiveness through strength training and work on building my theshold paces over the next few months, then get in more specific mile training.

Thanks, and congrats on your solo 5:07 mile and your 5K PR! I think you'll run sub 5 early next year as long as you stay consistent and don't get injured.

I don't have much of a sample size to work with, but my hunch is that the "easy interval method" I'm using is more suited to faster twitch folks. Those who are more slow-twitch oriented may be better off doing the traditional continuous runs, long runs, doubles, and high mileage.

there is a mile track meet at corona del mar next sunday, november 21st. you can find info here:

https://www.calcoasttrack.com/news_article/show/1189422

registration process is still unclear, but i'm guessing if you keep checking back with the link above they'll update it. if you care, i'll be there trying to break 5 minutes for the first time as a 54 year old, and i'm guessing it'll be a bit of a struggle for me. if i break 5, it won't be by much. this is a first time for this event, so i make no promises on how well it'll be organized, but it should be fun, and cdm's track is an excellent distance track, new facility, with 110 meter wide, sweeping turns.

maybe i'll see you there,

cush

socalcush wrote:

there is a mile track meet at corona del mar next sunday, november 21st. you can find info here:

https://www.calcoasttrack.com/news_article/show/1189422

registration process is still unclear, but i'm guessing if you keep checking back with the link above they'll update it. if you care, i'll be there trying to break 5 minutes for the first time as a 54 year old, and i'm guessing it'll be a bit of a struggle for me. if i break 5, it won't be by much. this is a first time for this event, so i make no promises on how well it'll be organized, but it should be fun, and cdm's track is an excellent distance track, new facility, with 110 meter wide, sweeping turns.

maybe i'll see you there,

cush

Whoa! How long is your sub 5 streak? You might be able to take down Steve Spence's record:

BTW, the race page says that there'll be a men's and women's mile, but the registration page says "Track Meet Entry Fee - Adult 1600/800m" when you click on Tickets. Hopefully, it's going to be the full ~1609m and not the 1600.

socalcush wrote:

there is a mile track meet at corona del mar next sunday, november 21st. you can find info here:

https://www.calcoasttrack.com/news_article/show/1189422

registration process is still unclear, but i'm guessing if you keep checking back with the link above they'll update it. if you care, i'll be there trying to break 5 minutes for the first time as a 54 year old, and i'm guessing it'll be a bit of a struggle for me. if i break 5, it won't be by much. this is a first time for this event, so i make no promises on how well it'll be organized, but it should be fun, and cdm's track is an excellent distance track, new facility, with 110 meter wide, sweeping turns.

maybe i'll see you there,

cush

Thanks for the heads up. I think I may give it a shot, but I'm probably not in sub 5 shape yet - my time right now would likely be in the 5:03-5:06 range. Maybe 5:00 or so in ideal conditions if I had a 2-3 week taper.

Anyway, do you have any planned splits for the first three laps? If you're thinking of going out in something like 75 (409) -75 -75, I may try drafting off of you and seeing how long I can hold on. But I'll take a pass if you're thinking of going out faster than 3:43 ish for the first 1209m.

i will try to hit 75s through 3 laps--if i'm in sub-5 shape, i should be able to do it on the last lap. if i'm not in sub-5 shape, it won't matter what i go through at. annual sub-5 streak dates back to 1981 when i was 14 years old, so i still have some years to go before i match spence's streak.

still not sure what the details are for registering, or the actual schedule, or if it'll be a mile vs. a 1600. hopefully that'll all firm up this week...

cush

I"ll admit my example is a little misleading. There was no competitive depth.

There was a sub 16 guy, a bunch of 19-20 guys, and me. I knew I couldn't come close to hanging with the leader, so I ran to beat everybody else. Still, there was no way I could break 18 that day much less 17:30.

I've just reached what will likely be my highest easy interval mileage this year - 25.5 MPW, all done at ~6:30/mile pace or faster.

Last 7 days:

Saturday (11/13) - 2x200 in 40", 400 in 85", 3000 in 10:59, hard 600, 500, 100

S (11/14) - 17x400

M (11/15) - 6x1500

T (11/16) - 24x200

W (11/17) - off

Th (11/18) - 16x400

F (11/19) - 6x1500

The next 2-3 weeks is going to be a taper for a goal race on Dec. 4th and/or Dec. 11th. There'll be a bit of guessing and trial and error involved since this is my first time doing this type of training.

Tomorrow's intervals (and next week's) will be something with less volume, more rest, and faster speeds. Sunday will probably be the Corona Del Mar race.

socalcush wrote:

there is a mile track meet at corona del mar next sunday, november 21st. you can find info here:

https://www.calcoasttrack.com/news_article/show/1189422

i'll be there trying to break 5 minutes for the first time as a 54 year old, and i'm guessing it'll be a bit of a struggle for me. if i break 5, it won't be by much.

elusive dreams: wrote:

Sunday will probably be the Corona Del Mar race.

It'll be interesting to see how this goes. Any chance of getting it on video?

pics? wrote:

socalcush wrote:

there is a mile track meet at corona del mar next sunday, november 21st. you can find info here:

https://www.calcoasttrack.com/news_article/show/1189422

i'll be there trying to break 5 minutes for the first time as a 54 year old, and i'm guessing it'll be a bit of a struggle for me. if i break 5, it won't be by much.

elusive dreams: wrote:

Sunday will probably be the Corona Del Mar race.

It'll be interesting to see how this goes. Any chance of getting it on video?

There's no video (that I know of).

We ran the 1600 and not the actual mile. I was on pace the first lap (74") but didn't feel that great afterwards. 1000m went by in 3:12, and 1400m went by in 4:29. I kicked it in to finish in 5:05.03, which I guess would be a PR since my PR for the full ~1609m is 5:07.8.

Anyway, big congrats to socalcush, who went sub 5 by a decent margin.

elusive dreams.- wrote:

composite wrote:

Any plans for indoor season, or are you just going to focus on outdoor?

There are almost no indoor meets within a few hundred miles of where I live. I haven't ruled out flying to the Midwest or East Coast, but I'm only going to do so if I'm fairly confident of running a few seconds under 5. I don't want to spend all of that time and money to end up with something like a 5:08.

I've just started a two week taper and will be racing indoors on Dec. 4th.

About two hours after this morning's 1600, I did a solo 400m time trial and ran a ... 65.8. WTF? I may be too optimistic here, but hopefully that means that my mile time will drop by 5-10 seconds once I'm fully rested and get my sub 60 speed back.