Damn right! Larkimm is indeed a joke!
Smedford wrote:
Are you comfortable with the fact that she is such a 'shoe in' at the IAAF with Coe? I want my kids to take part in a sport with transparency and moral clarity, at the moment athletics is not that sport. As for being a member of Bedford, I don't see the connection, unless they joined the club because of it's association with her rather than for the love of the sport.
I feel a bit sorry for Paula in that she has been singled out when doping is clearly quite widespread within athletics (Sorry, Seb, it is ...). I will bet that if Paula has doped/transfused, it's because she felt that it was the only way to be able to compete against her state-doped rivals.
I'm still gobsmacked that GB is held up as some sort of beacon of honesty, pluckiness and fair play, when us brits managed to finish above the PED-fuelled Russians in the 2012 Olympic medal table!!!
Smedford wrote:
Are you comfortable with the fact that she is such a 'shoe in' at the IAAF with Coe? I want my kids to take part in a sport with transparency and moral clarity, at the moment athletics is not that sport. As for being a member of Bedford, I don't see the connection, unless they joined the club because of it's association with her rather than for the love of the sport.
Not bedford.
And yes, for the record i do trust Coe, i see no reason to doubt his integrity.
Wejo,
It's clear you have no clue how the bio-passport. Yet, you run a site that kind of relies on knowing at least the basics.
Jfc, get your sh!T together. Or not.
If only everyone's life was so easy.
Nobody has claimed Vilamoura was cool. We all agree it was 22-23C(71.6-73.4F) at the start, and rising during the race of one hour and seven minutes length by some unknown amount. It is the dehydration explanation plausibility that is open to question and doubt...but that explanation has recently been changed by Paula to LAB ERROR...try to keep up...
How about some history:
1972-B.Ekblum,et al. Response to Exercise after Blood Loss and Reinfusion.Journal of Applied Physiology.1972 Aug;33(2):175-80. publishes about hemoglobin changes and exercise performance changes after blood transfusions. In the same year, Lasse Viren wins the 5k and 10k gold at the Olympics, and repeats both wins in the 1976 Olympics. There were suspicions of transfusions by the Finns, but we will never know for sure...
1976-Waldemar Cierpinski cheats to win gold medal for East Germany over my hero Frank Shorter, who I believe deserves two gold medals, which really shows how great Frank was...
1980-Cierpinski again wins marathon. Kaarlo Maaninka of Finland wins silver in 10k and bronze in 5k, and is found to have done blood transfusions.
1982-Francesco Conconi of Italy publishes journal articles about the anaerobic threshold, with variations on the CONCONI test being done to this day on runners and cyclists...
1984-Allberto Cova of Italy wins 10k Olympic gold...rumors of blood transfusions...,Marti Vainio of Finland wins silver in 10k,but is caught with anabolic steroid metenolone, which was possibly in his old stored blood which he transfused before the race, but forgot he was on metenolone when the blood was withdrawn for storage...not very smart doper, was he...!
Meanwhile, it is discovered that one third of the US Cycling team at the Olympics, which won 9 medals, were doing blood transfusions...
1985-blood transfusions are declared illegal and banned...but there is no test for detection..
1987-New England Journal of Medicine publishes trial of recombinant EPO called Epogen, made by the biotech firm Amgen. Amgen ironically goes on to be a major sponsor of the cycling Tour of California, where many of the riders are using its EPO product...
1988-Salvatore Antibo from Italy..wins Olympic silver in 10k..more rumors about him..Gelindo Bordin, a product of the Dr. Conconi Italian group wins the gold medal in the marathon, and also wins Boston in 1990.
1989-Epogen approved by FDA for use in US
1989-1990-EPO moves into cycling in a big way. Belgian cyclists dropping dead..crazy stuff..
1990-1991- track has 3 to 5 sub 13:10 5k perfomers and/or performances per year..
1993-14 men break 13:10 a total of 21 times!!! while the Chinese women go on a rampage with Wang Junxia 29:31.78 10k WR, 8:06.11 3k WR, that still stand to this day!
Meanwhile, the first Italian coaches, led by Dr. Gabriele Rosa, arrive in Kenya....
1993 -2000-rampant EPO use..no test for detection..records smashed, huge depth of fast times by many people in track and cycling. Cyclists like Pantani and Riis pushing their hematocrits up to dangerous levels of 60 or 70%!!.. Cycling finally institutes a hematocrit cutoff limit max hematocrit of 50% or you can't race...cyclists respond by basically all of them then having hematocrits of 48-49.5%, just a coincidence that they are all just below the limit...right?
A protege of the Italian Dr. Conconi, mentioned previously, went on to become much more famous..his name was Dr. Michele Ferrari, and he was the doctor to the stars of pro cycling, most of all, he was doctor to Lance Armstrong, who is the prototype for a pharmaceutical experiment gone mad disguised as an athlete..They did everything...EPO,transfusions, the anabolic steroid testosterone, Human Growth Hormone, and probably other things we don't even know about. What a name! You can't make this stuff up...the mad genius Dr. Ferrari really did turn his riders into Ferraris, with extra horsepower!!!..., He also did a great job making sure that 1) he kept Lance alive and didn't kill him. and 2) that he somehow passed his drug tests. It was probably Ferrari that pioneered taking EPO by iv instead of subcutaneous injection, so that the EPO could be cleared faster, and the window for a positive epo test was then very small. A very smart guy who is presently in trouble with tax authorities for hiding large amounts of money in secret bank accounts, and he is also banned for life from cycling...
2000-first urine tests for epo appear around this time, not sure when, test improved by around 2005..The new test for EPO leads athletes back to the old method of blood transfusions, to avoid detection...
2004-Italian Stefano Baldini wins gold medal in marathon(Hmmm). American Tyler Hamilton is caught doing homologous blood tranfusion of someone else's blood at Tour of Italy( I think but not sure where,maybe Spain?) and at the Olympics, where he won gold medal. B test at Olympics had problems, kept medal on a technicality..but finally returned the medal in 2011. His lawyers used the famous "Tyler is a human chimera with a vanishing twin" defense to explain why he had blood from two different people in his bloodstream.. which wins the comedy prize for funniest doping excuse ever!!!
2008-CERA (Continuous Erythropoietin Receptor Activator) , a new longer acting agent, with a much longer half-life 20x longer than epo, is appoved for use in Jan,2008 under the name Mircera. Rashid Ramzi tests positive for CERA at the 2008 Olympics, and loses his gold medal...
2009-2015-development of EPO mimetic peptides such as peginesatide and CNTO530 and development of orally active Hypoxia Inducible Factor(HIF) stabilizers. You can just take a pill which works like EPO. The Company Fibrinogen has compounds FG2216,FG4592, and FG4497, which stabilize HIF by inhibiting the enzyme prolyl-hydroxylase, which is involved in the breakdown of HIF by the ubiquitin proteosome pathway. HIF is a transcription factor which increases the gene expression of about 200 different genes, including the gene for EPO. So increased levels of HIF2alpha signals cells in the kidney to increase transcription of Erythropoietin(EPO), which travels to the bone marrow and binds to progenitor cells, and increases erythropoiesis, the production of new red blood cells, which is how HIF stabilizers work.
Another compound involved with HIF is cobalt chloride, which also acts as a HIF stabilizer, is orally active, but is not recommended, as it is toxic to the gastrointestinal system,thyroid, heart, liver and kidney and may cause cancer. There is now a blood test to test for cobalt levels.
Other recent research is looking at inhalation of the noble gases Argon or Xenon as HIF activators of erythropoiesis. They have both been used by Russian athletes, and both compounds have recently been banned, although I don't know if there is a test for them yet...The cheaters are always finding new ways to cheat and the testers are always trying to find new ways to test....
For further reading..check out: Simon Beuck,et al. Hypoxia-inducible factor stabilizers and other small-molecule erythropoiesis stimulating agents in current and preventive doping analysis. Drug Testing and Analysis 2012 Nov;4(11):830-45., from their special issue on Sports Drug Testing for Erythropoiesis-Stimulating Agents and Autologous Blood Transfusion... many interesting articles in this issue....
So that brings us to today, Dec 2015. Dr.Gabriele Rosa from 1993 in Kenya now has a son Dr. Frederico Rosa, who still works with top Kenyan runners today in Kenya, And Claudio Berardelli(sp.?) ... and Rita Jeptoo, and other Kenyans......
And we forgot Turkey(Altepkin in 2012 Olympic 1500m gold-gone now) and all the Russians, and all their positives ,and all the destroyed samples, and the leaked 12 year database of blood tests that nobody can see, and Paula's tests that nobody can see...and Dr. Saugy turning up over and over, from Lance to Paula(her"blood test expert") to destroyed Russian samples .... and Seppelt's documentary, which Lord Seb Coe says he hasn't seen!!!....to the 26 missed doping tests by the Italians (just an administrative error I have heard!...) to IAAF corruption, bribes at IAAF and in Kenya, head of anti-doping at IAAF arrested, and head of IAAF arrested, and maybe covered up tests... or just no testing at all or no followup in other cases...and Lord Coe tells us he doesn't know ANYTHING about any of this while he has been vice-president under Lamine Diack for like eight years.... and he calls Ashenden "a so-called expert--Give me a break"...
I say give us.... the people who value integrity and honesty...give us a break... from this perpetual game of How to win in track and field by cheating, which has been going strong for over 40 years... and shows no signs of slowing down any time soon....
To infinity and beyond........
rjm33 wrote:
Nobody has claimed Vilamoura was cool. We all agree it was 22-23C(71.6-73.4F) at the start, and rising during the race of one hour and seven minutes length by some unknown amount. It is the dehydration explanation plausibility that is open to question and doubt...but that explanation has recently been changed by Paula to LAB ERROR...try to keep up...
How about some history:
1972-B.Ekblum,et al. Response to Exercise after Blood Loss and Reinfusion.Journal of Applied Physiology.1972 Aug;33(2):175-80. publishes about hemoglobin changes and exercise performance changes after blood transfusions. In the same year, Lasse Viren wins the 5k and 10k gold at the Olympics, and repeats both wins in the 1976 Olympics. There were suspicions of transfusions by the Finns, but we will never know for sure...
1976-Waldemar Cierpinski cheats to win gold medal for East Germany over my hero Frank Shorter, who I believe deserves two gold medals, which really shows how great Frank was...
1980-Cierpinski again wins marathon. Kaarlo Maaninka of Finland wins silver in 10k and bronze in 5k, and is found to have done blood transfusions.
1982-Francesco Conconi of Italy publishes journal articles about the anaerobic threshold, with variations on the CONCONI test being done to this day on runners and cyclists...
1984-Allberto Cova of Italy wins 10k Olympic gold...rumors of blood transfusions...,Marti Vainio of Finland wins silver in 10k,but is caught with anabolic steroid metenolone, which was possibly in his old stored blood which he transfused before the race, but forgot he was on metenolone when the blood was withdrawn for storage...not very smart doper, was he...!
Meanwhile, it is discovered that one third of the US Cycling team at the Olympics, which won 9 medals, were doing blood transfusions...
1985-blood transfusions are declared illegal and banned...but there is no test for detection.
So could anyone prior to 1985 admit to blood transfusion and suffer no repercussions. I've heard people debate whether Viren did them, but if it wasn't banned could he just come out and admit it?
As for the weather in Portugal, it was a warm day. There have been much worse. I looked up Paula's 5k splits for the race: 15:40, 15:45, 16:21, 16:19 (I estimated the last one).
So she did slow roughly 10 seconds a mile the 2nd half but she didn't fall apart. We already knew that because she dominated the race.
rjm33 wrote:
Nobody has claimed Vilamoura was cool. We all agree it was 22-23C(71.6-73.4F) at the start, and rising during the race of one hour and seven minutes length by some unknown amount. It is the dehydration explanation plausibility that is open to question and doubt...but that explanation has recently been changed by Paula to LAB ERROR...try to keep up...
Thank you! Larkimm, you responded to me with your dumb - cold remark without citing me - I didn't say cold. Call me dumb, as much as you want, I don't participate in these classical letsrun games.
Fact is, I said 70 F, and fact is, the actual numbers from the weather history for that day, time and location show pretty exactly that, and not Paula's 30 C = 86 F. For example take wunderground (but feel free to look for other sources): 21 C at 11:30, clear skies; 23 C at 12:30; 22 C and scattered clouds at 1 pm. Paula's 30 C don't show up anywhere. But then again, she doesn't use that refuted excuse anymore, but some of her fans do...
rjm33 wrote:How about some history:[.quote]
...
I say give us.... the people who value integrity and honesty...give us a break... from this perpetual game of How to win in track and field by cheating, which has been going strong for over 40 years... and shows no signs of slowing down any time soon....
This is as sad as true. But do you really think Frank Shorter was clean during these free-doping times?
Mr Larkin writes : i do trust Coe, i see no reason to doubt his integrity.
And I see no reason to have any respect for someone who can say this after all that has been revealed about this scumbag and the IAAF
Coe has been on Nike's payroll for ... how many years ?
Time to wake up.
Show me "all that has been revealed" about Coe that leads you to describe him as a "scumbag". I don't share that view.
"All that has been revealed" about the IAAF is that a select group of officials had acted corruptly. Not that the IAAF has done this. Yes, of course they can be criticsed (and harshly) for not having controls / checks / balances in place which picked up on this. But on the information we know today I'm not aware of anything which says that the fundamentals of the IAAF are crooked. Perhaps that is the "wow" factor report still to come.
And just because you are employed as a global ambassador for a sports company that you have had a relationship all through your sporting career doesn't mean that you don't have sufficient intellect and characteristics of personal probity to put those potential conflicts of interest to one side when you are acting in a different role. It's something people do every day, and is one of the reasons why just about every committee based organisation has requirements around recording such interest on a register.
Coe, for example, was still paid by Nike when he was employed to run the London 2012 games where Nike's main rival Adidas was one of the "tier 1" sponsors. Do you really imagine he was sitting there drawing big Nike ticks all over the Adidas sponsored stuff for the Games? Or do you think he had sufficient rigour to be able to put the Nike role to one side when he focussed on the main job he was employed to do? I use this as an example of the fact that in the real world conflicts do exist, and people (myself included) work around them daily. Whilst a simplistic analysis by the media and keyboard jockeys can give the impression that this is some overwhelming issue, I don't believe that it is. It would, however, be a completely different matter if Coe was receiving money from Nike, or any other company, and didn't disclose it.
Coe has bowed to media pressure by getting out of the Nike arrangement, recognising that managing the media is a necessary evil these days. But it doesn't mean that in his judgement (and the judgement of those charged with governance at the IAAF) it wasn't something that could be perfectly well worked around.
I'm wide awake, thank you.
casual obsever wrote:
rjm33 wrote:Nobody has claimed Vilamoura was cool. We all agree it was 22-23C(71.6-73.4F) at the start, and rising during the race of one hour and seven minutes length by some unknown amount. It is the dehydration explanation plausibility that is open to question and doubt...but that explanation has recently been changed by Paula to LAB ERROR...try to keep up...
Thank you! Larkimm, you responded to me with your dumb - cold remark without citing me - I didn't say cold. Call me dumb, as much as you want, I don't participate in these classical letsrun games.
Fact is, I said 70 F, and fact is, the actual numbers from the weather history for that day, time and location show pretty exactly that, and not Paula's 30 C = 86 F. For example take wunderground (but feel free to look for other sources): 21 C at 11:30, clear skies; 23 C at 12:30; 22 C and scattered clouds at 1 pm. Paula's 30 C don't show up anywhere. But then again, she doesn't use that refuted excuse anymore, but some of her fans do...
rjm33 wrote:How about some history:[.quote]
...
I say give us.... the people who value integrity and honesty...give us a break... from this perpetual game of How to win in track and field by cheating, which has been going strong for over 40 years... and shows no signs of slowing down any time soon....
This is as sad as true. But do you really think Frank Shorter was clean during these free-doping times?
I'm sorry I didn't quote you personally, as I was making the more generalised point that I've seen several posters make the same point about the temperature.
I stand by my point that the contemporaneous reports of the day say that the race started at noon at 22degC and that the temperature rose "rapidly" and that the temperatures were "scorching". Those reports are a world apart from a balmy 22degC throughout the race.
I don't know enough physiology to talk about dehydration. I was just clarifying the fact that there are reports other than Paula's which say it was a very hot day to run that race.
Smedford wrote:
Are you comfortable with the fact that she is such a 'shoe in' at the IAAF with Coe? I want my kids to take part in a sport with transparency and moral clarity, at the moment athletics is not that sport. As for being a member of Bedford, I don't see the connection, unless they joined the club because of it's association with her rather than for the love of the sport.
I didn't answer this more fully last night as I was on the mobile.
A more articulate answer from me would be "we're not at Bedford", my kids run for the first club she ran for as a young girl. Some of the old timers with the club talk very fondly about her and her family, and for the club she is, understandably, a badge of honour that they played some part in her career. I only discovered her connection with the club long after joining up. Its a mild emotional tie - of course, if she was guilty of doping I would expect the club to strongly distance itself from her.
If you imagine just for a moment that you have a genuinely held belief that she is clean (which I will loudly admit that I do, for reasons I've made clear previously), then also imagine the sense of inspiration which that can give to young children taking part in their first track meeting or cross country race. "This is where Paula started - I could have the potential to be as good, or better than her". It's a nice thing for a kid to dream about.
Show me "all that has been revealed" about Coe that leads you to describe him as a "scumbag". I don't share that view.
..........
http://insidecroydon.com/2014/10/15/lord-coes-company-behind-plans-to-bulldoze-athletics-stadium/
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/lazy-lord-coe-and-tory-nhs-reforms.html
pop_pop!_v2.1.1 wrote:
Wejo,
It's clear you have no clue how the bio-passport. Yet, you run a site that kind of relies on knowing at least the basics.
Jfc, get your sh!T together. Or not.
If only everyone's life was so easy.
wejo has always stuck to the belief that learning would just interfere with wdoobyaing his way through life. Gotta keep your priorities straight.
Is there any proof supporting Paula's claim of "faulty equipment"?
Thank you, Lovely Seb . I could not have done better.
Lord Coe will live to regret the day he called Michael Ashenden "a so called expert."
As the man said " Let’s wait and see who is sitting on the right side of history."
montrealtrip wrote:
Is there any proof supporting Paula's claim of "faulty equipment"?
Good question. Was this a hail mary by Paula?
I've stopped reading any posts on this thread except those of rjm33. Absolutely brilliant work there, mate.
Lovely Seb wrote:
Show me "all that has been revealed" about Coe that leads you to describe him as a "scumbag". I don't share that view.
..........
http://insidecroydon.com/2014/10/15/lord-coes-company-behind-plans-to-bulldoze-athletics-stadium/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223283/Lord-Coes-12m-windfall-sells-private-firm-Olympic-advertising-contractor.htmlhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1463242/Coe-affair-claims-will-not-affect-Olympic-bid-leadership.htmlhttp://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/seb-coe-insists-fifa-corruption-scandal-is-worse-than-the-athletics-doping-crisis-a3134491.htmlhttp://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13086490.Seb_Coe_s_last_race_was_fixed_so_he_could_win__says_runner_who_took__10_000_to_lose/http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/lazy-lord-coe-and-tory-nhs-reforms.html
Are they the best / worst you can do? A couple of stories which show he is a shrewd business man, a marital affair, a race fixing allegation article that explicitly says if it was true Coe knew nothing at all about it and a not unjustifiable comment that the criminality throughout Fifa is worse than the IAAF corruption issues? You could probably find more about me on the internet to deserve the scumbag tag.
The man lies, lies, then lies again.... 'My 38 year relationship with Nike'... is that including the 5 years when you were UK director of Diadora, or not?
He says 'I will meet with whistleblowers and Sepelt'... well yesterday Radio 4 tried to set up an interview with Coe and Sepelt, an open debate.... both accepted independently but when Coe found out Sepelt would be there he insisted on a solo interview.
He lies a new lie every day.
larkimm wrote:
Lovely Seb wrote:Show me "all that has been revealed" about Coe that leads you to describe him as a "scumbag". I don't share that view.
..........
http://insidecroydon.com/2014/10/15/lord-coes-company-behind-plans-to-bulldoze-athletics-stadium/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223283/Lord-Coes-12m-windfall-sells-private-firm-Olympic-advertising-contractor.htmlhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1463242/Coe-affair-claims-will-not-affect-Olympic-bid-leadership.htmlhttp://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/seb-coe-insists-fifa-corruption-scandal-is-worse-than-the-athletics-doping-crisis-a3134491.htmlhttp://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13086490.Seb_Coe_s_last_race_was_fixed_so_he_could_win__says_runner_who_took__10_000_to_lose/http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/lazy-lord-coe-and-tory-nhs-reforms.htmlAre they the best / worst you can do? A couple of stories which show he is a shrewd business man, a marital affair, a race fixing allegation article that explicitly says if it was true Coe knew nothing at all about it and a not unjustifiable comment that the criminality throughout Fifa is worse than the IAAF corruption issues? You could probably find more about me on the internet to deserve the scumbag tag.
My reaction was the opposite. I read the business stuff at first and was like "good businessman arguably with a huge conflict of interest", but wasn't that surprised. The affair and abortion allegation I had no idea about or had forgotten.
Having said that I don't think throwing the term 'scumbag' around serves a positive purpose. Let's stick to facts. We're all humans and make mistakes (not that I'm condoning them), let's evaluate people on their accomplishments and mistakes not whether they are enough to be called a 'scumbag'.