ALBERTO RELEASES STATEMENT

+1 my respect for Rojo has gone down quite a bit

Here is what's really going on. Travis Tygart is coming after him, just like he came after Lance. The hammer is coming down and Salazar and Nike are trying to same themselves the best they can:

USADA investigating Alberto Salazar; track coach issues rebuttal online

The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency is investigating whether track coach Alberto Salazar encouraged star runner Galen Rupp and others to skirt anti-doping rules, the Associated Press reported Wednesday.

A person with knowledge of the investigation told the AP that more than a dozen witnesses have been interviewed and USADA is actively pursuing documents and other evidence from Salazar, who coached Rupp to the silver medal in the 10,000 meters at the London Olympics.

The person spoke on condition of anonymity because anti-doping investigations are considered confidential.

http://espn.go.com/olympics/trackandfield/story/_/id/13142079/alberto-salazar-hits-back-hard-doping-allegations

This response from Salazar seems to completely disprove the accusations against him. I don't know how rojo can think this doesn't change anything.

hayward102 wrote:

Wrong Score wrote:

[quote]Score Taker wrote:

Al Sal 1

ProPublica/BBC/Gouchers/Mangess 0

Al Sal wins! Written in laymen's terms - great idea. If he has really nothing to hide (and he might) he should sue the lot of them for slander.

Al Sal 1

ProPublica/BBC/Gouchers/Mangess 18+

Serious question. Why does Magness get a free pass at this point? Of the claims in the original article, the only one that he made that wasn't refuted was the 2002 lab document. Did anyone read that an think he wasn't either lying or inaccurate on the Dusseldorf/Mayo Clinic/Prednisone and pills in the book incidents? Salazar did not fully address all claims, but there was a clear chain of emails on both incidents that showed Magness to be inaccurate, a liar, or both on those two items.[/quote

More bizarre and very tellng about Magness's departure is the relationship or possible harassment of a female athlete that he was warned about. Along with being incompetent as coach his character holds little water.

Can you Read?! wrote:

TJR25 wrote:

He quoted studies/statistics in the response from USATF that showed that 21% males running mid distance, long distance and the marathon in 2012 had thyroid issues from the (US), females were 23% and that 20 something percent of all of Great Britain's athletes had thyroid issues. So his rates are actually lower.

Those statistics were for asthma, not for thyroid. He (deliberately?) didn't include any statistics on hypothyroidism in his response.

I was hoping someone would say this. So the asthma rates are normal and there is no faking there, but the fact is Salazar did not abuse the TUE system. The whole argument is based on the fact that 1. TUE's for Thyroid medication would help athletes to train or in competition, this is true (to the best of my knowledge) 2. Salazar's group was abusing the TUE system, this not true. So what if Salazar's athletes were diagnosed? They weren't systematically taking meds for it, so it doesn't matter.

I really think Alberto did a wonderful job here. I watched to doc, read the articles and have been following this really closely, and the evidence, the evidence he pulls from really is what took me by surprise. I mean we all knew he told his athlete's he had documents to refute what all of them had said and wow did he do a great job.

He really, really must not like Steve Magness. Wow did he just rip into that guy. I checked out Steve's twitter for maybe so sort of response, he must not have anything to say. To be called out on be a horrible coach, even at the college level, is harsh, but don't pick the wrong battles?

begging now wrote:

Nike is going to sue all accusers including this irresponsible website. What poor journalism and foolish reporting without facts.

Nothing to sue LRC for. Not a crime in anyone's world to report on other people's reporting.

I think one thing the Salazar letter teaches us that we all need to slow down.

Everyone's already shitting all over Magness and the Gouchers without hearing their response. Like people did against Salazar. They're all probably the same people.

I will say that I think people should take a somewhat skeptical eye to the statements of people, dated this month. For example, Dr. Brown has always struck me as sleazy. And his reputation is closely intertwined with Salazar's. The vague letter with vague language (e.g. "I do not recall") counts for something, but it's hardly a nail in the coffin. He could be lying or parsing his words all the same.

Furthermore, the letter still leaves things out. Salazar denies coaching people to get TUEs. But -- ha! -- that's not what the NOP 17 were saying he did, with the exception of the Goucher story (again, not refuted with evidence by Salazar). Instead, they wrote and said that Salazar trained people how to get prescriptions for drugs that do not require a TUE (ie, asthma, thyroid). Different. Not refuted.

Let's let Goucher and Magness clarify their statements and let Epstein follow up. I'm sure others will be speaking up, too.

rojo wrote:

Kara Goucher never said she wasn't ever on Cytomel or a patient of Dr. Brown. She simply said that Alberto told her to take Cytomel early in 2011 when didn't have a prescription for it and that allegation stands.

Also incredibly damning to Salazar is his telling Goucher: get it from Galen he has plenty.

How to respond wrote:

Let's see, former athlete who claimed they "love" you make statements that attack your reputation, character, professionalism and ethics and you think that Salazar providing context that includes personal details about those making the accusations to defend himself equals "personal attacks"? Salazar doesn't just claim something regarding Gouchers, he provides evidence and argument to support what he states.

As far as citing a number of 20 people, how many of those provided multiple sources of evidence to back up their claims? Seems to me various unsubstantiated claims and personal opinions were packaged into a story and now that evidence is being provided that rebuts nearly every thread of the assembled story, many don't want to deal with the substance of his rebuttals but continue with name calling, guilt by association, etc. Essentially simply ignoring what they previously demanded Salazar provide.

How many times have we heard the "they're all out to get me" defense from athletes? Lance Armstrong stuck to that story for years. Ryan Braun claimed his positive test happened because the tester sabotaged his sample. I understand this is difficult for Salazar/Rupp fans to handle, but you're the one's burying your heads in the sand I'm sorry to say.

Salazar provided his side of the story, but very little evidence. He used a lot of clever little tricks like the one Rojo just pointed out. Showing that he prescription for androgel does not prove that he was the one using it.

Salazar also failed to address why there was a large bag of needles and refrigerated "allergy" medication in vials at their altitude camp.

Salazar is providing evidence of Cytomel use (or attempted use) in August 2011, and claiming that is the only time. Goucher is claiming Feb-March 2011. Note that Goucher is claiming the Cyotmel use to be before Salazer is, not after. I think that timing is critical. If Goucher's account is correct, and the email documentation is correct, then we have a very strange story where Salazer tried to give Goucher Cytomel in Feb-March, was refused and was rebuked by Goucher's doctor, but then just a few months later in August, Dr. Brown instructed Salazer to give her Cytomel again? If this is the case, why wouldn't Goucher have mentioned it? Why would she only mention the one instance in Feb-March, but not that Salazer tried again in August? Even going off Goucher's account, there only appears to be one instance with Cytomel, and since there is documentation showing August to be correct, my guess is Goucher (or Epstein) got confused about the timing, and there is only one instance.

Also, the doctor said he never rebuked Salazer. Is Adam Goucher's story wrong, or does Kara have a doctor other than Dr. Brown during this time?

TJR25 wrote:

Can you Read?! wrote:

Those statistics were for asthma, not for thyroid. He (deliberately?) didn't include any statistics on hypothyroidism in his response.

I was hoping someone would say this. So the asthma rates are normal and there is no faking there, but the fact is Salazar did not abuse the TUE system. The whole argument is based on the fact that 1. TUE's for Thyroid medication would help athletes to train or in competition, this is true (to the best of my knowledge) 2. Salazar's group was abusing the TUE system, this not true. So what if Salazar's athletes were diagnosed? They weren't systematically taking meds for it, so it doesn't matter.

I would love it if someone would post an evidence based research study about thyroid and performance enhancement. I have taken a plethora of physiological and biochemical college courses and have never heard anything but bad news about over-supplementing your thyroid.

There is no evidence that thyroid medication enhances performance, I dont believe it even requires a TUE.

begging now wrote:

Nike is going to sue all accusers including this irresponsible website. What poor journalism and foolish reporting without facts.

Nike? What? The Salazar claims are posted from a site for the "Oregon Project" that is copyrighted by "Oregon Project." Who exactly owns the "Oregon Project"?

Dr Giggles wrote:

Can you Read?! wrote:

Those statistics were for asthma, not for thyroid. He (deliberately?) didn't include any statistics on hypothyroidism in his response.

I'm reading those statistics completely differently to you guys. It seems like you are interpreting it as 20-some percent of these athletes ACTUALLY HAVE asthma or thyroid issues, or whatever.

My interpretation is that that's how many are CLAIMING TO HAVE, or have prescriptions for, these issues. Not the same thing. If abusing thyroid and asthma prescriptions by athletes is a genuine thing, then you would expect the rates to be higher than the general population.

Regardless of the interpretation of which problem(s) the stats were referring to, isn't Salazar's group the only one to be accused of abusing TUE's? So it would not be widespread in athletics. Correct me if I am wrong.

Shoebacca wrote:

The massage therapist's claims are the most damning ones left

Is it safe to assume from your wording that you actually see Salazar's letter as having satisfactorily dispensed of the allegations against him (the ones he actually addressed, anyway)?

It's clear that Salazar's letter could have consisted entirely of "Dear Haters: Kiss my ass," and a fair number of people would have treated it as a thorough, ironclad defense.

If anything, the letter only invites more questions because of its just-below-the-surface but undeniable inconsistencies. But thanks to it's dutiful "How dare they!" theme and noncontributory assortment of "Exhibits," it'll suffice for now.

"Both Alberto and Galen have made their position clear and refute the allegations made against them, as shown in Alberto's open letter.

"Furthermore we have conducted our own internal review and have found no evidence to support the allegations of doping."

This is from Nike. People stop being asinine...

TJR25 wrote:

Regardless of the interpretation of which problem(s) the stats were referring to, isn't Salazar's group the only one to be accused of abusing TUE's? So it would not be widespread in athletics. Correct me if I am wrong.

Salazar is the only coach who has his own lab that can run USADA style tests.

Freud wrote:

So far, I am most troubled by the Dr. Brown revelations. From the emails in 2011, it appears Dr. Brown directed Salazar to tell Goucher to take The Cytomel prescribed to Rupp (Salazar mentions in the email he has the Cytomel Brown prescribed for Galen - why mention that?). What doctor tells a third party to instruct one of his patients to ingest someone else's medication, or prescribe mess without performing blood work or a physical exam? What exactly are the rules in regards to this? And is there any proof that Dr. Brown specifically wrote a prescription for Cytomel for Goucher?

Stuff like this is, to me, the essential takeaway from the Salazar rebuttal. AlSal doesn't challenge any of the FACTS of the allegations against him, rather the specifics of the rationale and meaning behind them. He accuses Magness, Gouchers, et al. of lying or exaggerating about the intent behind these actions, but he doesn't ever explicitly say that something they say happened did not happen. To the contrary, he actually confirms a lot of the allegations against him, he just offers his own he said/she said side of the story for why things occurred. The Cytomel stuff, the testosterone study, and the Rupp medical report are all serious accusations that Salazar admits happened but disputes the conclusions the BBC article draws.

Salazar essentially says Dr. Brown told Kara to take Galen's prescription meds-- something that laypeople do all the time but that doctors are forbidden by ethics rules to recommend. That alone (which, again, was confirmed by Salazar himself) calls Brown's character and practices into serious question.

At the end of the day, Salazar and NOP aren't going to get nailed down on any specific charges, but Magness and his exposé team aren't going to back down. What this really brings to light is that the USADA and WADA regulations are loose enough to allow enough bending of the rules to enable elite athletes and coaches to gain some seriously unfair advantages without the explicit label of "cheating."

Rojo wrote: So the Goucher allegation hasn't been proven to be a lie as people are claiming. Salazar is providing a letter from Dr. Brown for a totally different time frame..

You are grasping for straws Robert. What you describe isn't a probable scenario, and, if it were true and the Gouchers were being honest, the Gouchers would have also disclosed, "Oh yeah well there was one time Dr. Brown told us we should use Cytomel after I had cortisone injection and Alberto did legitimate send Cytomel to us."

Also the time frames aren't as far off as you suggest. Five months after Colt's birth is April 25th 2011. The emails in which Alberto is instructed to give Kara Cytomel from Dr. Brown are 3 months later August 20th 2011. That's not as you say, "a totally different time frame."

Misdirection wrote:

TJR25 wrote:

He quoted studies/statistics in the response from USATF that showed that 21% males running mid distance, long distance and the marathon in 2012 had thyroid issues from the (US), females were 23% and that 20 something percent of all of Great Britain's athletes had thyroid issues. So his rates are actually lower.

Those 20+% figures are for ASTHMA, not thyroid

You completely fell for his weasely misdirection.

And putting that kind of obfuscation in there doesn't reflect well on him.

Even though the figures were for asthma, the whole argument is based on the fact that

1. Thyroid TUE's help athletic performance in training and/or racing, this is true (to the best of my knowledge

2. The NOP is abusing TUE's for Thyroids, which is not true, shown by the limited number of TUE's used by the NOP and the way they were used.

So basically a bunch of his runners are diagnosed with thyroid issues, but never use the TUE's. Therefore there is no problem except for some shady medical practice, which is another issue.