Craig Virgin and Fam have interesting comments on Rupp and NOPe

When virgin and fam say the same things that many of us have been thinking for years, people should listen up.

Dope police wrote:

When virgin and fam say the same things that many of us have been thinking for years, people should listen up.

Agreed. It does seem rather unlikely that they're all jelly, and sending sniper shots in riddles (not so much riddles in virgin's case) that all seem to point in the same direction.

And what reasons would Magness have for doing this if he doesn't believe there is something shady going on?

Dope police wrote:

When virgin and fam say the same things that many of us have been thinking for years, people should listen up.

Why? Virgin pretty much says he doesn't know anything.

I think he had more rest than that before his final mile, wasn't it over 6 minutes? Also, most of that was sitting down and going from flats to spikes.

Hey, pretty sure I made that point before webfoot but w/e. I agree with your post

Again, the below post is spot on.Fascinating that the post about Virgin was taken down.Even if you presume that Rupp is a public figure for a limited purpose, having this entire thread up and on the front page is libelous and reflects malice on the owners' part who benefit from republishing this stuff. The whole purpose of same is to drive traffic to this site. That's the way it is.

"Read the whole thread, Salazar told Malmo that none of his runners are currently on any TUE's."

So this week they're not on TUE's. And a month ago they could have been ,and Magness says that the effect is carried forward

by altering gene expression.

So the words are truthful at this moment.

part of the problem wrote:

Haven't we witnessed enough athletes get busted without testing positive to know that it is not a indication of innocence?

Or guilt, either.

Why bother following the sport if your opinion defaults to "'top performance' are likely to be from PEDs."

afromanmiler wrote:

Look at former Ivy Leaguer Erik Van Ingen's career and reactions to Rupp on Twitter. He gets dropped by Nike out west and then blames everyone else. Now criticizing Rupp.

Are we reading the same tweets? Looks like Van Ingen chose to leave, he wasn't dropped. And he doesn't appear to be criticizing Rupp, seems to be suggesting that the workouts make sense given his fitness level.

And, as Rojo mentioned, Van Ingen went to Binghamton.

Nowadays epo can't be abused like it used to. Nowadays micro-dosing is all the rage. Maybe NOP is micro-dosing in conjunction with their technology. Or maybe the technology is enough.

My apologies--I tried to read all the posts, but my memory is shrinking as I get older.

An article by Steve Magness from 2011 on the benefits of running workouts following a race and when someone might be able to have a workout greater than one would expect:

http://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/how-do-workout-after-race

An article from yesterday by Amby Burfoot on Rupp's workout:

http://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/opinion-galen-rupps-training-is-ridiculously-rational

That's exactly the point. He went from being ONE OF the best AMERICAN high school athletes ever to the flat out fastest caucasian human ever at 10,000 meters by OVER 25 seconds! (Im not counting any fellow NOPers marks, just as one doesn't legitimized Yunxia's 3:50.46 by mentioning its only half second faster than Jiang's 3:50.98) Also, he ran his 13:37 after graduating and running along pro runners in Europe. Several of our best just graduated high school runners could have done that given the same opportunity, including Derrick, Fernandez, and Verzbicas.

And all of that meant squat his first four years of college. He could not even win a conference title. In spite of being essentially a pro runner throughout that time he was stagnating, particularly his "natural speed" that is supposedly the difference between him and all other US runners. Yeah, so natural it didn't show up till fifth year. You can make an argument for him being one of our best college runners in the past decade. But keep in mind, he is now vying to be the best distance runner in the world at the moment.

This is not the way it works. Lets say I was an employee at the Nike Campus, and legitimately saw something. Do I just go to the IAAF Whistle blower Office and thats it, Salazar is arrested and Rupp suspended? Remember when Conseco said he personally injected several players? Remember the trainers who claimed they saw Lance store blood? Many of them got sued.

And yes, the landscape did change, it changed around the late eighties and it left US in the dust. Remember global hero Auoita? Followed by Morceli, followed by dozens of Kenyans running sub 13? We were all fans and finally Salazar stepped forward and said, "hold on, its all too good to be true folks." And he was probably right. Turns out the explosion of sub 13s and sub 26s was due to drugs. And suddenly, word gets around of the wide spread use of non-banned drugs by US athletes and this coincides with our very own assault on sub 13 with more knocking on the door. And your saying that we should shut up and be fans because unlike when the Moroccans did it, unlike when Spanish did it, unlike the east Africans, unlike when our cyclist did it, this time its because Rupp is injury free and Mo was lazy.

- Rupp is wealthy and can afford whatever PEDs he chooses, if he wanted to dope and the fact that he loses more races than he wins, suggest he's not very good at doping and could certainly do much better than asthma medication.[/quote]

a spade is a spade wrote:

And all of that meant squat his first four years of college. He could not even win a conference title. In spite of being essentially a pro runner throughout that time he was stagnating, particularly his "natural speed" that is supposedly the difference between him and all other US runners. Yeah, so natural it didn't show up till fifth year. You can make an argument for him being one of our best college runners in the past decade. But keep in mind, he is now vying to be the best distance runner in the world at the moment.

Rupp won conferences titles before his senior year, heck, he won Regional titles, he also made WC and Olympic teams, while setting AJRs and collegiate records, while racking up an incredible amount of 2nd, 3rd, 4ths, that he didn't "win" those NCAA titles beforehand is no big thing in the larger never before seen context. He also burned down Solinsky to set a new PR in the same year Solinsky won the NCAA 5k, but Solinsky couldn't come close to making the international USA team, unlike Rupp that year, because Rupp was just already the genuinely national class younger despite being younger.

[quote]Added Perspective wrote:

A thought provoking update was just posted online by Craig Virgin:

[quote]Craig Virgin wrote:

Virgin's clarification to his response in my mind clearly indicates that all he is saying is that we need to keep an open mind about things and that from his own knowledge-base and experience, Rupp's race + workout is worthy of discussion beyond the perspective of just being a fan. (That's fair) Perhaps my response and some others have been a bit too emotional and not completely fair to Virgin.

With that said, I don't have any regrets about the content of my any of my posts; however I should have shown more reverence to Virgin and the fact that he has earned the right to express his opinion. The fact that there have been so many responses is a testament to Virgin's relevance in U.S. distance running; however, Virgin's relevance in U.S. distance running is precisely the problem. He is entitled and earned the right to listened to, but his timing was poor. To express negativity or doubt about a U.S. athlete's performance within hours is not good and even more so coming from someone we hold in high esteem. (That was not fair on Virgin's part and he should have known better.)

I still state that there is nothing about what Rupp has done in his career or recently that can't be accomplished with talent, hard work, good coaching and doing something that other American distance runner has been able to do and that is stay relatively injury free for a decade. I also state that no one knows absolutely certain if Rupp or any elite athlete is clean, but you can't indict or even insinuate someone is dirty just because they are performing well.

Fastest Caucasian on earth at 10,000 by over 25 seconds? Idiot! His PR is 26:48 and Solinsky ran 26:59. My math may be fuzzy but that is only 11 seconds.

It's odd how Malmo led the charge against "A Duck" a mere few months ago while being an admitted drug user/cheat but after a pow wow with Salazar his mind has changed and has done an about face and supporting Salazar.

Alberto coached Slaney who got nailed.

Alberto coached lance who was ingesting more than hunter s thompson and we all know his story.

The adrenaline story comes from somewhere and has been around long before it got tweeted

Whatever is done is done under a dark cloud because of the failure to be forthcoming, Nike's dealings with AW, Salazar's murky past and self admittance that prozac helped his own running. Whether it's fair or not is how it is. Just how Suzy favor may no longer be a hooker...but thats a topic for another thread.

26mi235 wrote:

part of the problem wrote:

Haven't we witnessed enough athletes get busted without testing positive to know that it is not a indication of innocence?

Or guilt, either.

Why bother following the sport if your opinion defaults to "'top performance' are likely to be from PEDs."

Maybe someone cares about the sport. Maybe someone is also disappointed (or even mortified) that the sport seems be have been taken over by drug cheats.

Was that really so hard to understand?