The Official D3 XC Thread 2012

falsette wrote:

This is from the 2012 Pre Championship manual. There is a cap of 5 for at least this year. Let the complaining begin.

Teams (32 per gender) will be selected in the following manner:

● 16 teams will automatically qualify (two per region);

● 16 at-large teams will be selected by the committee to be determined using the criteria listed below;

● Only the top five teams in each regional will be considered; and

● Regional performance/place is the primary piece of the criteria, as a team cannot be selected to the championships over a team it finished behind at its respective regional.

Clam Evans wrote:

According to this

http://www.ustfccca.org/division-iii/division-iii-proposals

the cap has been removed. Unless I'm reading it wrong

link to the 2012 pre-championship manual? no pics no proof

We don't actually have a locker room. The campus has a public locker room that we also use. We don't have an indoor track either but sometimes if it's awful out we'll jog on the upper deck of the ice rink. We do have an outdoor track (finally) and as long as it hasn't rained and you know where the pot holes are, it's pretty runable. To say that we have an advantage because of the SUNY system which is poorer than shit right now, is a joke.

Not sure what you're complaining about here. Are you complaining about some schools being better than others? You know why some schools are never heard of? Because being good in cross country isn't generally a priority at those schools. That's just the way it is.

Looks fine to me wrote:

At least you HAVE a locker room! Many of us don't. Buy some paint and fix it up. No sympathy should be found for SUNY or WIAC schools.

How about someone name some D3 schools you have NEVER HEARD OF because they have never (or rarely) qualify someone for nationals? Schools whose names have never appeared on Letsrun.com before!

There are 581 D3 programs and it's the same 60 or so schools that get ALL the love.

[quote]Nubsickle wrote:

and Haverford is 2000- [quote]

Actually Haverford is fewer than 1200. This just supports your point more.

As to these supposed state subsidized athletic programs, well

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/137967563.html

-- "Wisconsin’s public universities face the third-largest budget cuts in the country this year, according to an annual survey of higher-education funding." My DIII college's endowment is like 1.5 billion and we completely sucked. Money helps, and size helps, but they're neither necessary nor sufficient. It's about commitment and culture.

and GO HAVERFORD

HELLO EVERYONE, JUST WONDERING WHO IS BETTER, HAVERFORD, NORTH CENTRAL, OR CALVIN. AND I MEAN AT RUNNING, NOT LOCKER ROOMS.

They r all grate schools at runing. grate coaches, grate philosphies. historically NC has been strongest but tradishin always helps that. you cant go rong with any if you want to be the best runner you can be. Tom donely is argubly the best mid distance coach, while Al caris is argubly best cross/distence and their is diemer who is also fantasic.

I agree--kick out all the WIAC, SUNY, and well funded private schools out of D3. We need more representation of the mid-level d3 programs so all those 29min - 8k guys from the crap schools can get laid by the d3 dirty's after making nationals.

That's one reason you focus on your conference meet...so even if you don't have the ability to compete at the national level, you have something to shoot for. Do you know how many D1 schools you've never heard of? Do they complain about not being able to compete with the funding/enrollment of Ohio St., Texas, Oregon? No. They shoot to do well within their conference, and every so often hope to get some individuals to regionals or nationals.

And if you're still bitter...tell your coach to do a better job at recruiting...or pick a more competitive school to run at in the first place.

State funding reduces tuition at these schools to a level that constitutes an unfair advantage and is a defacto scholarship. These schools can recruit athletes that could not qualify for merit aid at most D3 schools. Look at LaCrosse for example in-state tuition was $8,329 for 2011/12 which applies to everyone whether they scored an 18 on their act or a 36. Compare that to current #6 to be left home from in midwest region Augustana whose 2011/12 tuition was $33,363. I wonder how many of their students qualify or $25K in merit and need based aid. I am sure not many.

POLITE ALL CAPS GUY wrote:

HELLO EVERYONE, JUST WONDERING WHO IS BETTER, HAVERFORD, NORTH CENTRAL, OR CALVIN. AND I MEAN AT RUNNING, NOT LOCKER ROOMS.

Are you the same polite all caps guy from reddit?

I just don't understand why half this thread wants d3 to be less competitive. As long as academic integrity seems to be there, I don't see what is wrong with certain competitors having more money- isn't this true at every level (besides salary caps?)

After looking at conference results my top four teams are

1. Haverford

2. North Central

3. Calvin

4. Wisconsin Lacrosse

Thoughts? Lacrosse looks strong to me and seems to have been flying under the radar. These four teams have been four of the programs with very proud traditions, this is shaping up to be an exciting nationals meet. Another team headed in the right direction who has peaked very well on a few occasions is Washington University. Haverford without Schilit and Calvin without Kramer or VanderRoest at their meets, wonder if they will be back because that could be the difference for either team.

I'd sub out Lacrosse for WashU in 3rd-4th. Solid performance at UAAs for them in a rebuilding year

D3 thurt todlm wrote:

I'd sub out Lacrosse for WashU in 3rd-4th. Solid performance at UAAs for them in a rebuilding year

WashU at UAAs-

Lacrosse at WIACs-

Washu's a fine team, but Lacrosse almost beat the rest of the WIAC in a dual meet. Including Eau Claire who beat washu at Oshkosh.

Your line of reasoning is that just because the students in public schools made a "fiscally responsible decision" to attend a cheaper school they should be forced to go DI? You want DIII to be solely made up of brainaics who can get 25K scholarships and rich stuck-up pricks? Preeeeeetty sure that that isn't what DIII is about.

Now that we are through the conference meets, here are my predictions on the # of teams that will qualify to nationals from each region:

Atlantic 5

Central 4

Great Lakes 3

Mideast 5

Midwest 5

New England 5

West 3

South 2

I think Midwest, Mideast, and NE are all locks for 5. South will get the standard 2 spots, and the West is looking like probably 3. There might be some shifts between Atlantic, Central, and Great Lakes but these are my guesses based on what we've seen so far. All of this is obviously still heavily dependent on regional results, because margin of victory at regionals is an important part of the criteria. Regions could be helped or hurt depending on how close the 3-4-5 teams are together.

Discuss...

Poverty-stricken AMERICAN wrote:

Your line of reasoning is that just because the students in public schools made a "fiscally responsible decision" to attend a cheaper school they should be forced to go DI? You want DIII to be solely made up of brainaics who can get 25K scholarships and rich stuck-up pricks? Preeeeeetty sure that that isn't what DIII is about.

Explain to me why poverty stricken students from Wisconsin unlike their neighbors from Michigan, Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois etc., should get state funded de-facto scholarships in in the form of reduced tuition and still get to compete in DIII athletics. Students in other states that need to make a "fiscally responsible decision" have to attend state schools that are mostly D1 with a few D2. The WIAC schools have a recruiting advantage over their DIII peers to keep good talent local in Wisconsin. Not just Cross Country but look at other sports like football etc, these WIAC schools are over represented in the rankings in relation to the number of schools.

I know plenty of kids who are good enough to compete in D3 but could not afford the private school tuition because they did not qualify for enough financial aid that are attending a state school who never qualifies for the D1 national meet but still has walk on standards of 9:30 for 3200 meters and 9:15 to obtain a scholarship, yet similar kids from Wisconsin get to compete in D3. Something is wrong with this picture.

Poverty-stricken AMERICAN wrote:

I know plenty of kids who are good enough to compete in D3 but could not afford the private school tuition because they did not qualify for enough financial aid that are attending a state school who never qualifies for the D1 national meet but still has walk on standards of 9:30 for 3200 meters and 9:15 to obtain a scholarship, yet similar kids from Wisconsin get to compete in D3. Something is wrong with this picture.

Yea what is wrong is the rest of the states should have more D3 state schools. seems like Wisconsin has it figured out pretty well. Give more kids a chance to compete in college sports and win a bunch of national championships...

Where is it mentioned in any description of Division III athletics that the schools have to be expensive? You seem to be confusing "de-facto scholarship" with athletic scholarship. No one at a SUNY or UW school is going to get their tuition raised for not competing well. They're not potentially risking their college career on the money they're granted from sports. It's the decision not to include scholarship that that makes a DIII school DIII. Cost has, again, NOTHING to do with it.

Just a theory: Wisconsin has only ONE Division 2 school, UW-Parkside, and very few NAIA schools.

As a recent athlete to graduate high school in WI, I can honestly say that if you want to compete in state you have to go D1 or D3, and there isn't much option otherwise. That is why WI retains a lot of its in state talent. If you can't go to UW Madison, go D3!