Definiton of Aerobic and Anaerobic, lets get up to date here.

Is wellnow really Jon Orange?

wellnow I really want to believe you i hope you are not pulling my leg so to speak

1609 pr around 5:40

1600 pr around 5:38

400 pr 1:15

If I can barely run 1 400 at 1:15 how can it be that I would run 3@ 1:15 and 1 @ 1;14 to break 5 minutes you are telling me something very different. can you explain it like you explain everything else.

either way how much rest after each 400?

will start with 200's today so do I drop the mile repeats?

thanks

Maybe wellnow makes a better coach than I would, but if you can spare the time before track season starts, I'd rather see you taking a 6-week break from speed, running a bunch of stuff between 7:00-8:00 pace, before trying any of his 100's, 200's, 400's...

I'm not pulling your leg, I had similar problems to you when I was young, I didn't know how to make the best of my speed and my endurance.

When I was 16 my best 1500 was 5.17 on a grass track, probably worth about 5.10 on a synthetic surface. When I ran a session of 400's, I can't remember if we did 8 or 10, but my first was 84 seconds and it felt really uncomfortable. I gradually got quicker during the session and it felt easier. My last 400 was 64.

I thought maybe the coach got the time wrong because my best 400 flat out was 68.

But no, I probably did run 64 and I didn't understand that I needed a very good warm up to do a good session or a good race. Doing a flat out 100m was no problem, but runing fast for longer distances was not something I could just switch on, and I have never been able to do that.

The same thing probably applies to you. Certainly, the times you have posted seem to suggest this.

The 100's 200's and 400's I have suggested aren't really speed sessions, they are specific pace workouts for 1600m I have made the assumption that g2 has maintained her endurance base from her previous post:

My concern, which I expressed before in more detail, was that she's still doing a high volume of speed work in the off-season. I think a short break would be beneficial, if she can spare the time, at least according to the principal of periodicity.

About Jan Olbrecht and his ideas on anaerobic/aerobic training.

Olbrecht shows how there is an optimum maximum pace at which to do speedwork, to improve speed endurance (race pace) and beyond which, race pace will decline. Olbrecht refers to this type of training as Anaerobic Capacity training.

This is in line with the common assumption that too much speed ruins endurance pace.

For runners this means that when sprinting, there is an optimum pace for your 100's and 200's which is different for every runner and each different race.

These paces can only be learned through practice, and in fact it is better to run too fast before your serious race preparation starts, in order to find out how fast is too fast, and what your ideal sprinting paces are.

One other very important point to consider is that all experienced and well trained athletes perform better when they are well warmed up and they become more economical in their energy output, i.e. faster for the same effort than before.

This improvement in running economy or swimming economy or cycling economy etc is probably due to optimum muscle tension.

high volume of speed work? what do you mean? I don't follow? She's not doing any speed work.

She said she was doing 4-5 mile repeats at 6:00 pace, and that her best mile was 5:40, and her best 2-mile was 12:10.

5 miles = high volume

6:00 = between 1 and 2 mile race pace = speed

She also said she's doing this once a week in the off-season, along with easy runs at 7:30-7:45 pace.

If the repeats were 7:00 pace, I would call it tempo.

I would also call her easy runs marathon pace.

I have worked with girls at this level and I know the pace requirements.

g2 is not using her aerobic capacity to anywhere near its potential when she is running at 6 mins/1600 at this pace, her fast twitch fibers are only being used to maybe 50% of their aerobic capacity.

To use her aerobic capactity effectively for 1600/3200/5000 she would need to train at what most people here on letsrun refer to as VO2Max interval training paces, which for her would be between about 75 and 80 seconds per 400.

I'm fine with all that. Is a short break the off-season composed of high volume medium and easy miles just a waste of time?

wellnow wrote:

I have worked with girls at this level and I know the pace requirements.

g2 is not using her aerobic capacity to anywhere near its potential when she is running at 6 mins/1600 at this pace, her fast twitch fibers are only being used to maybe 50% of their aerobic capacity.

To use her aerobic capactity effectively for 1600/3200/5000 she would need to train at what most people here on letsrun refer to as VO2Max interval training paces, which for her would be between about 75 and 80 seconds per 400.

wellnow wrote:...she would need to train at what most people here on letsrun refer to as VO2Max interval training paces, which for her would be between about 75 and 80 seconds per 400.

Her mile PB is 5:40, and you are saying 5:00-20 is her VO2max interval pace? Come again? 5:00 would be about 800 pace (or quicker) for her.

I know.... you think she should run 4 x 600 @ 1:54 with long rests, right?

Seriously... did you make a typo? Tell me you made a typo.

wellnow Thanks,

OK I went ahead an read everything you stated. The first time around I was a little confused. I really think I got it now except for three things.

How much recovery on those 400's in 75/76? W

What type of cycle 8 days 9 days?

Do I keep doing my mile repeats?

"Is a short break the off-season composed of high volume medium and easy miles just a waste of time?"

Do you mean an end of season break or a transition from one type of racing to another? I don't really understand your question.

When I take a break from racing, I just do whatever excercise I feel like doing and run whenever and wherever I feel like doing so. I also do some form of speed work more or less all year round.

These are suggestions of training that would help you to have a better track season:

A few weeks of running a few hills of various lengths at a comfortably hard pace would help you transition to faster paced running then:

I would suggest a 7 day cycle for the first three sessions

Day one three miles tempo run at a comfortably fast pace, run the last 50-60 meters fast, then a few minutes rest then 4x 100m in 17-17.5 1-2 minutes recovery is all you will need.

Don't go too fast, these are not really sprints, but fast strides about 90-95% effort, which should feel easier each time. This will help you get used to faster running. 2-3 miles easy straing after

Day 2 2x 4-5 miles easy/steady

Day 3 Three miles warm up starting slow finishing with 100m fast then a few minute rest then 6x200 in 35-36 that is fast but not flat out, take whatever recovery you need.

This is not a hard session. 2-3 miles easy straight after.

Day 4 2x 4-5 easy

Day 5 Three miles warm up then 6x 400 in 75-76 with 90 seconds recovery, of course this is going to be a hard session, but with the previous two sessions to get you used to faster paced running you should be able to manage this. If you run the first one too fast, then run the second one slower than target pace.

If it is breezy add one or two seconds per lap, if it is very windy your times will be slower still. You have to use your judgement.

1 mile jog afterwards.

Day 6 run as you feel or rest

Day 7 2x 4-5 or long run at whatever pace feels comfortable.

on weeks two and three do more or less the same, but add one repetition to each of the sessions so that you are doing 4x 100 7x200 and 7x400 on week two and 4x100 8x200 8x400 in week three. Then in week 4 do a different shedule, with either a road race or your 4-5 times 1600. If you have been recovering well then you will be a lot faster.

As the weeks go by you might find you don't need as much recovery during the sessions, you might want to reduce the recovery by 5 seconds each time if you feel good.

Week 5 4x100 9x200 9x400

week 6 race or your 1600 reps

week 7 4x100 10x200 10x400

week 8 road race or 1600 reps

week 9 track season starts

wellnow and everyone else!

Thank you for taking the time!

Will do and will get back to you!

You're welcome g2. Enjoy your training, and I hope you find that it's much easier to be a fast distance runner than most people realize.

Coach wellnow i seem to have a few other questions?

what day do would be best for these to fall on day1? and so on not really sure?

Week 5 4x100 9x200 9x400

week 6 race or your 1600 reps

week 7 4x100 10x200 10x400

week 8 road race or 1600 reps

week 9 track season starts

this stuff above gets really confusing because i'm supposeed to alternate the road race or 1600 with what workout the 100 200 or the 400's.

I'm assuming you mean to switch off with the 400 day correct? once the track season starts will i no longer so the 400's nor the road race or the 1600 repeats. That probably can't be right it must be some other sequence unless I'm supposed to change sequence once track would start?

thanks

coach wellnow, to clarify can you just put the optimal name of day before each session for the first and second part such as sat sun mon and so forth?

thanks