If Sage did upper decker at Cam’s crib, would Cam try to take care of it himself? If it were vice versa maybe Sage would hire janitor and call the police to report it?
The conservative mindset tends to value self-reliance and DIY competence, while the liberal mindset is generally more comfortable delegating specialized labor
It really kind of depends on which conservatives you mean. If you mean the conservative wealthy class, they are far more likely to delegate specialized labor and just reap the benefits of others’ work. Remember there are basically two kinds of conservatives: the rich powerful owners of capital who are executives at major companies and majority shareholders in several others, and the conservative poor which is the rich’s labor class who work for peanuts, are easily fooled and taken advantage of, and support the erroneous notion of complete self autonomy, despite the notion never actually benefiting them.
The conservative mindset tends to value self-reliance and DIY competence, while the liberal mindset is generally more comfortable delegating specialized labor
It really kind of depends on which conservatives you mean. If you mean the conservative wealthy class, they are far more likely to delegate specialized labor and just reap the benefits of others’ work. Remember there are basically two kinds of conservatives: the rich powerful owners of capital who are executives at major companies and majority shareholders in several others, and the conservative poor which is the rich’s labor class who work for peanuts, are easily fooled and taken advantage of, and support the erroneous notion of complete self autonomy, despite the notion never actually benefiting them.
How is one a rat if one is reporting someone who is flaunting in plain sight? Please explain kid.
Sage is a rat because he snitched to USADA who not only was unaware of Cam’s doping, but doesn’t even know who Cam is because Cam is not really a professional runner like the ones who compete on the World Athletics circuit. To say that Cam’s participation in ultras and regular small market marathons is somehow akin to what Sebastian Sawe or Jacob Kiplimo does is not only dishonest, it’s insane. Cam is a running influencer, a media personality who happens to run. His 2:39 personal best is slower than the qualifying time for the women’s Olympics marathon trials. USADA should call Sage and put him on speakerphone and have their office of entitled bureaucrats laugh at him, because even they should realize how ridiculous Sage’s report is. Read his posts on this thread. They reek of jealosy and Sage brings up reasons he dislikes Cam which have nothing to do with Cam’s brazen doping, like for instance Cam’s hunting interests and lifestyle. To Cam, he doesn’t consider himself a professional athlete so this is all coming as a surprising shock to him because he never once for a moment thought someone would care enough to actually report him.
If Sage did upper decker at Cam’s crib, would Cam try to take care of it himself? If it were vice versa maybe Sage would hire janitor and call the police to report it?
The conservative mindset tends to value self-reliance and DIY competence, while the liberal mindset is generally more comfortable delegating specialized labor
Nope. The conservative mindset values the delusional idea that they are self-reliant and competent when they actually depend on government handouts. Blue states are the economic engine of the US economy -- and the source of the bulk of US tax receipts -- and red states are the welfare recipients of blue state contributions. And don't get me started on farm subsidies, or that Republican idiots and their political gods have crazy high divorce rates, single-mother births, little-to-no education, drug dependencies, etc yet hold themselves up as paragons of family and righteousness. It would be sad if it wasn't so pathetic and dangerous.
The conservative mindset tends to value self-reliance and DIY competence, while the liberal mindset is generally more comfortable delegating specialized labor
Nope. The conservative mindset values the delusional idea that they are self-reliant and competent when they actually depend on government handouts. Blue states are the economic engine of the US economy -- and the source of the bulk of US tax receipts -- and red states are the welfare recipients of blue state contributions. And don't get me started on farm subsidies, or that Republican idiots and their political gods have crazy high divorce rates, single-mother births, little-to-no education, drug dependencies, etc yet hold themselves up as paragons of family and righteousness. It would be sad if it wasn't so pathetic and dangerous.
Your characterization of the modern conservative family is so grossly inaccurate and backwards that I won’t spend much time on it. All that I will say is that you can switch the word Republican that you used in your mindless description to Democrats, and you will be accurate.
Now for the first part of your ignoramus post. All the public data available shows irrefutably that blue states incur a way higher tax burden for the American taxpayer, to pay for their countless over-spending programs. Blue states have far more food stamp recipients and WIC recipients, the red states aren’t even close. In California alone, the support for homeless programs is in the billions now and they still have over 200,000 homeless so it’s a sunk cost. Minnesota was swindled out of millions from that Somali fraud scheme. And way to knock conservative farmers who wouldn’t have needed subsidies in the first place if it wasn’t for Biden’s horrible policies. Do yourself a favor and quit listening to NPR and watching MSNBC. Instead learn the facts so you know what you are actually talking about.
It really kind of depends on which conservatives you mean. If you mean the conservative wealthy class, they are far more likely to delegate specialized labor and just reap the benefits of others’ work. Remember there are basically two kinds of conservatives: the rich powerful owners of capital who are executives at major companies and majority shareholders in several others, and the conservative poor which is the rich’s labor class who work for peanuts, are easily fooled and taken advantage of, and support the erroneous notion of complete self autonomy, despite the notion never actually benefiting them.
Sage is the kind of kid that reminded the teacher there was homework.
No one takes Hanes's running seriously. Obviously, all the BPN guys (Hopkins included) are on gear. Who cares? If a 55+ age group medal bothers you that bad I will personally buy you one of of Amazon. He, like 99.99% of all runners, is not in the testing pool. He won't get tested, he won't get banned, because no one cares. The juice could not be less worth the squeeze.
As far as media promotion goes, there are worse people than Cam Hanes being lauded as icons of the sport. Sure, Hanes is just some mouth breathing moron with hordes of followers, but he isn't much different than any other non-pro-bro out there.
Take your ball and go home. This act reeks of jealousy and attention. Your time, if you had any, is long gone. Get over it
Hanes, his followers, and his various sponsors take his running very seriously. You can choose not to but the fact remains he’s one of the best in the world at his age group.
The problem is that "nobody cares" holds weight because the offenders know WADA/USADA are resource-limited, and can wait for this to blow over. Maybe I'm being cynical but media/news moves so fast they are just biding their time.
The 2026 Black Canyon was a Golden Ticket race and a World Trail Majors race.
Sage placed 7th overall and 1st overall masters.
Sage is currently #2 on the wait list for a Golden Ticket.
According to Aravaipa policy this was a drug tested event yet Sage REFUSES to answer if he was drug tested at this race.
Sage REFUSES to answer why his name is not listed in the USADA athlete test history database which goes back to 2016.
For someone who is screaming for clean sport, he should be the one leading the charge by getting tested.
I'll answer you: No I was not tested. I wish they had more testing! I would have been 100% clean at Black Canyon and Javelina (and any race I've ever done) though. You keep coming on here trying to somehow "discredit" me (with my past results etc) but it's not logical or relevant to this case really at all. Like are you trying to make some kind of point here (what is it)?
I'm honestly not even sure if they tested the Golden Ticket winners at any of these races (I've been advocating for more testing in general in sport and ranting about how "dirty" ultra-trail running is for the last 10 years. UTMB, Western States etc. Only a very small handful of runners have been caught in ultra-trail (and we know a lot more are doping....at all levels).
In my whole career I was only officially drug tested once by USADA. It was on top of Pikes Peak actually when I won the World Mountain Champs there in 2014 for Team USA. They had some "fake testing" with the Quartz program in Golden Trail World Series (where I made the world finals in 2017-2018)...I called them out on it too because it was the same kind of BS testing they were trying to run at UTMB in Chamonix back then also (at least pre-race "athlete monitoring" as they called it). One guy did pop an EPO positive at UTMB though on a Finish line test I believe (2015), "5th place". Trail-Ultra is for sure the "wild west" still with a general lack of testing and funds etc. But the thing is guys like Cam don't even need to be tested. We already know he has used PEDs because he admitted to it! So at this point maybe race policy could just be enforced better?
I commented with Des Linden and Kara Goucher a bit on this on Des's Instagram post the other day (lack of funds for testing and enforcement, no surprise testing or whereabouts database system, no official (unified at least) governing body in ultra-trail etc). It's a big uphill battle... But if a lot of ultra-trail races (and all those under Aravaipa) are under USADA/WADA code then those are the rules and regulations of the race...for all the runners...and you're simply cheating if you're not following them...
Hi Sage!
Why is Des backing the Satisfy bros? Same with Molly S.
Also, it's probably kinda interesting for Kara, as she and Des share a podcast and they may differ on this topic.
No one, and I truly mean no one, cares about irrelevant age-groupers in B/C-list marathons.
If you buy BPN stuff, you know the guys hocking it are on gear- you can chose whether or not to give them your money (doping ethics aside, the go-gels are actually good)
USADA and the AIU don't have the resources to respond to the doping epidemic in our country for our Olympians and collegians. Why would they waste their time with Hanes?
My issue isn't with Sage calling out doping; my issue is with the target. There are much, much bigger fish to fry
This poster is correct. Cam doping is pretty much a non-issue. I agree with Sage’s post that it isn’t fair to the other masters runners, but asking USADA or AIU to expand their already strained testing resources is unrealistic and too costly. It’s not practical. It is without doubt the case that way more of these guys dope than Cam; he is just someone who brazenly admits it because he knows that consequences are unlikely. The reality is that the sport is moving to a PED tolerated sport where doping is fully accepted and creates an even level playing field. I am ashamed as a fan to admit it, but that is how people are nowadays. Most people have zero integrity and spending millions on an un-winnable battle is pointless.
Cynically from the influencer side, everyone is looking for that one viral video that will boost their channel so they can quit their day jobs in a dying economy. They know PEDs are a risk but they know enforcement is weak (see NCAA and University of Michigan) and are just making a calculated gamble that their enhanced performance will pay off. It's a golden ticket (no pun intended) if their runfluencer channel makes it big. Unfortunately I'd bet that Cam comes out the winner in this and he'll be able to keep racing.
nah, it’s fair game because it’s all about Cam’s alpha hyper-masculine BS. Alpha bro goes out and kills stuff cause he’s a master of the nature world
It’s really ironic that he needs gender affirming care to keep himself at a level that minimizes his insecurity to himself and his followers. Bro isn’t alpha enough to be natty
Also, he has such a huge following of casuals, gym bros, hunters, etc. LRC is fighting the good fight but there aren't enough here, and we are niche already to begin with.
Having Molly Seidel backing him (and also the other bros) is also not a good look and a disappointment after her August 2021 moment in the sun. I know she is transitioning to ultras but still...
This post was edited 33 seconds after it was posted.
Cam has a long history of thinking the rules don't apply to him or his family. One example: He lied about his nepo baby son's age and forced him to run the Eugene Marathon when he was 14, despite the minimum age being 16. All because he thought "kids today are too coddled" or some other weird, Rush Limbaugh-era talking point.
Recently, when he stopped crying and really got cooking on his Cocodona 250 recap (Really Cam, you should have titled this episode as a Cocodona 60 recap, because that's how far you made it champ) he peddled anti-vaccine conspiracy theories and suggested that's why Sage got pulmonary embolisms. The direct quote after making this claim was "The Woke, liberal vegan, they do what they're told, right? I don't. People like me, oh wait, you're telling me to do something? How about f*ck off." So yeah, Cam def doesn't think the rules apply to him.
Honestly, why not use the big guns (Rachel and Killian) and go after this guy? Esp. assuming they are clean. They are already legends in ultra and that would make this go away.
The conservative mindset tends to value self-reliance and DIY competence, while the liberal mindset is generally more comfortable delegating specialized labor
It really kind of depends on which conservatives you mean. If you mean the conservative wealthy class, they are far more likely to delegate specialized labor and just reap the benefits of others’ work. Remember there are basically two kinds of conservatives: the rich powerful owners of capital who are executives at major companies and majority shareholders in several others, and the conservative poor which is the rich’s labor class who work for peanuts, are easily fooled and taken advantage of, and support the erroneous notion of complete self autonomy, despite the notion never actually benefiting them.
This poster is correct. Cam doping is pretty much a non-issue. I agree with Sage’s post that it isn’t fair to the other masters runners, but asking USADA or AIU to expand their already strained testing resources is unrealistic and too costly. It’s not practical. It is without doubt the case that way more of these guys dope than Cam; he is just someone who brazenly admits it because he knows that consequences are unlikely. The reality is that the sport is moving to a PED tolerated sport where doping is fully accepted and creates an even level playing field. I am ashamed as a fan to admit it, but that is how people are nowadays. Most people have zero integrity and spending millions on an un-winnable battle is pointless.
Cynically from the influencer side, everyone is looking for that one viral video that will boost their channel so they can quit their day jobs in a dying economy. They know PEDs are a risk but they know enforcement is weak (see NCAA and University of Michigan) and are just making a calculated gamble that their enhanced performance will pay off. It's a golden ticket (no pun intended) if their runfluencer channel makes it big. Unfortunately I'd bet that Cam comes out the winner in this and he'll be able to keep racing.
100% correct. There is no bet to be had. Cam has already won. This will blow over and Cam will continue being awesome and Sage will continue being jealous of his awesomeness and angry at his success.
Don't let the pro-doping Rekbots get to you, Sage. Mostly they just hate whistle blowers and USADA and AIU and WADA because of their doping idols.
I reported Cam too. I also reported that Houlihan kept violating the terms of her provisional suspension, but neither the AIU nor USADA cared. LR downvoted me for that, and worse.
How did Houlihan violate the terms of her provisional suspension?
It really kind of depends on which conservatives you mean. If you mean the conservative wealthy class, they are far more likely to delegate specialized labor and just reap the benefits of others’ work. Remember there are basically two kinds of conservatives: the rich powerful owners of capital who are executives at major companies and majority shareholders in several others, and the conservative poor which is the rich’s labor class who work for peanuts, are easily fooled and taken advantage of, and support the erroneous notion of complete self autonomy, despite the notion never actually benefiting them.
This is actually a fair, good take.
I appreciate that. It’s of course a socio-political-economic fact that has existed at least since Nixon devised his campaign southern strategy, and different versions of it exist to this day.
I would be remiss if I didn’t say I find it funny that several posters agree with that factual post, and yet I have drawn their ire on the subject of defending Cam. They are only my opinions and not undeniable facts like the Republican Party composition post, but being my opinions I of course think I’m right. I’m actually surprised how incensed some of these people have gotten at me. It’s like if they hear or read the word doping it triggers in them some kind of irrational categorical hatred, no matter the reason why the person is doing it or any of the details. It’s like they are Mcarthyites and any kind of doping to them is akin to the Mcarthyites detestation of Communism. I can understanding wanting fairness in sport but Cameron Hanes is 58 years old and sure he is making decent money, but it’s not like he is a billionaire in Silicon Valley. He’s just someone pursuing his interests in a side of the sport that is mainly community oriented and supportive; retirees staying in shape. The idea that his brazen doping is somehow commensurate with a serious doping violator like Kibiwott Kandie is downright laughable. And it wouldn’t be a big deal, but Sage Canaday went to the actual lengths of reporting Cam to USADA, which generally doesn’t handle cases for runners nearly in their sixties. It just screams bitterness, especially if you want to take the time to read Sage’s long winded complaint posts on here, which include reasons that are additional to doping. The ire against my takes seem unfounded to me because I feel like these people aren’t weighing both sides. They are just so used to crying foul at doping that who is doing it and for what reasons are irrelevant to them. I can’t accept such an absolutist narrow attitude.
nah, it’s fair game because it’s all about Cam’s alpha hyper-masculine BS. Alpha bro goes out and kills stuff cause he’s a master of the nature world
It’s really ironic that he needs gender affirming care to keep himself at a level that minimizes his insecurity to himself and his followers. Bro isn’t alpha enough to be natty
Also, he has such a huge following of casuals, gym bros, hunters, etc. LRC is fighting the good fight but there aren't enough here, and we are niche already to begin with.
Having Molly Seidel backing him (and also the other bros) is also not a good look and a disappointment after her August 2021 moment in the sun. I know she is transitioning to ultras but still...
There’s been several pros on here that apparently follow Cam that several people on here have demonized. Do you even know if they for sure know that Cam openly admits to doping? Maybe they just like his content and aren’t privy to every single revelation? This is the bizarre doping McCarthyism I referred to. I see no harm in the innocent and benign act of subscribing to or following someone’s content. It doesn’t mean you endorse everything they say and do. Shelby’s name has really been dragged in the mud on this thread and someone even mentioned Hocker, who probably has never even met Cam. So judgmental based on such minuscule bits of information.
