Wow.
As I was when she announced her going pro, I'm amazed at what her parents allowed. The whole thing was just so wrong from the beginning. A train wreck of poor decisions.
We merged two Mary Cain threads into 1. The 2nd one was entitled, "Update: Mary Cain makes another sexual allegation - Alberto Salazar looked at her exposed breasts while she was sleeping"
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Actuallyreadthebook wrote:
Old forum user wrote:
Did Mary mention anyone in the book that she *did* like? Honest question.
Yes, but were people in the NOP likeable? Not a lot of good people to be surrounded with.
I can't speak to Alberto or other staff, but I don't think the runners in NOP were unusually malicious people. From at least my experience with a subset of runners associated with NOP, they were broadly comparable to other runners I've known, although quite a bit faster. (To be clear, I was no where near good enough to be on NOP itself).
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screen name stolen again wrote:
I hope Salazar sues LETSRUN for leaving this crap posted.
You think Salazar can sue us for letting people talk about a Runners World review of Cain's book? That't not how it works. WE live in America. There is a 1st ammendment. We didn't a) publish the book b) publish the review of the book. All we did was c) allow people to talk about a and b.
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room39 wrote:
Can someone please explain. Cain had a sister on the hs team the same time she was running for Bronxville. Why did the sister stay on the team if the coach was so bad? Why didn't her parents allow her sister to stay in such a toxic culture?
I was told the sister wrote an editorial in the school paper or local paper about how awful the experience was. Trying to figure out how to get a copy of it.
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what in the world wrote:
This is the worst of letsrun.
A girl gets abused by a maniac and we blame the teenage girl.
+1
Sadly that was to be expected based on previous threads. People here prefer the abuser over the victim.
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i read it too! wrote:
Mary portrays her coach Jim Mitchell, as horrifically cruel and callous at times. Ignoring the vicious bullying she sustains from her teammates and from their parents...
It's awful behavior from Mitchell...if it is in fact the full story. I believe the parents in Bronxville are nuts, and the kids are probably vicious too.
With all that being said, Mary's side of things shouldn't be entirely discounted..
Ok I've narrowed it down to what I want to get to the bottom of by highlighting the key statements above with the key phrases being "If it is in fact the full story" and "Mary's side of things shouldn't be discounted.
Yes, Marys version of things shouldn't be entirely discounted but neither should Mitchell's/everyone else. Mitchell was a legendary HS coach in NYstate. The idea that he'd ostracize and treat horribly a once in a lifetime talent doesn't make a lot of logical sense. What's his version of the truth? What were the teammates versions?
Yes, I can see upper classmen being jealous of a teen phenom. But that's sports That happen in the NBA, it happens in the NCAA, it happens in H
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Cinderfella wrote:
Mary Cain's recent Runner's World interview gives her parents a pass on not realizing there were serious problems at the Oregon Project because she claims she didn't tell them what was going on. Mary does not want to paint her parents in a disparaging light, but they were part of the problem.
Her parents were the adults and should have been more perceptive about the potential problems and issues that were liable to occur when sending their immature teenage daughter 3000 miles away to train in the hyper-competitive and aggressive environment of the Nike Oregon Project track club. Once she started to struggle, they should have taken charge of the situation and pulled their daughter out of this toxic environment.
But they were caught up in the allure of world class training and coaching without stepping back and being honest about what was going to work for Mary regardless of her remarkable teenage success on the track. They forgot to understand the person and instead allowed their daughter to be defined by competitive running.
She is clearly still resentful and has not moved past this traumatic period in her life even though she is 30 years old. This will continue to hold her back even though many still feel sorry for her.
Yes the parents are to blame. So it the agent. And so is Mary.
I'm not saying what happened to her is great. But the one common thing in all of these stories - HS team not working out, pro team not working out, triathlon not working out, Atalanta NYC not working out, job at tracksmith not working out - is what?
Mary Cain.
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I don't know what happened to her, but I know she's an unreliable narrator. Between the very bizarre pro triathlon experiment, whatever that "Atalanta Track Club" thing was, the complete silence on the role her parents played in all of this, and just the random twists and turns with basically every coach who's ever tried to help her, it's just hard to take anything she says at face value.
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rojo wrote:
i read it too! wrote:
Mary portrays her coach Jim Mitchell, as horrifically cruel and callous at times. Ignoring the vicious bullying she sustains from her teammates and from their parents...
It's awful behavior from Mitchell...if it is in fact the full story. I believe the parents in Bronxville are nuts, and the kids are probably vicious too.
With all that being said, Mary's side of things shouldn't be entirely discounted..
Ok I've narrowed it down to what I want to get to the bottom of by highlighting the key statements above with the key phrases being "If it is in fact the full story" and "Mary's side of things shouldn't be discounted.
Yes, Marys version of things shouldn't be entirely discounted but neither should Mitchell's/everyone else. Mitchell was a legendary HS coach in NYstate. The idea that he'd ostracize and treat horribly a once in a lifetime talent doesn't make a lot of logical sense. What's his version of the truth? What were the teammates versions?
Yes, I can see upper classmen being jealous of a teen phenom. But that's sports That happen in the NBA, it happens in the NCAA, it happens in H
But too often high school coaches cave to pressure of powerful families, or admins cave to powerful families and force decisions on the coaches. Just because someone has had a successful career doesn't mean they didn't indulge in the behavior.
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rojo wrote:
screen name stolen again wrote:
I hope Salazar sues LETSRUN for leaving this crap posted.
You think Salazar can sue us for letting people talk about a Runners World review of Cain's book? That't not how it works. WE live in America. There is a 1st ammendment. We didn't a) publish the book b) publish the review of the book. All we did was c) allow people to talk about a and b.
NO, I know he's not going to waste his time with this slander. But I was hoping you'd show some respect for the man and at least change the heading. He's been married for over 25 years with three kids. You really think his marriage would have lasted if he was some type of degenerate pervert. The girl is crazy. And Runner's World is just another liberal rag that should just go away.
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Some of these coaches are creeps. Even if they are innocent, they are putting themselves into situations they shouldn’t. If you are a man coaching girls / women, they should never stay at your house. If you have to do room checks, there should be another adult of the opposite sex to do them with you. These common sense lines exist for a reason. I see some coaches cross these lines and it just baffles me the level of stupidity and ego these guys have. It is not worth the lawsuits and accusations.
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I think Cain is ganging up on herself. She is getting her attention. unfortunately, for her, she also gets bad attention.
Even within this forum, often times, people throw out a bunch of garbage about people…..disparaging others when they don’t know the subject.
Using others as collateral damage just to make one feel good (for 2min) should be criminal.
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wsj reader wrote:
I started the thread yesterday about how I read in the WSJ review of Cain's memoir that Cain claims her HS coach took a perverse interest in her sex life. Today I've read another review in RW and find out she's accused Salazar of looking at her exposed breasts?
RW wrote:
Sometimes, as Cain slept in the guest room of Salazar’s home, she would awaken in the night to find him watching her sleep, she says, even once when her breasts were exposed. She pretended she was sleeping.Yet another day. Yet another sexual allegation.
I guess I'm going to have to buy this book. I really didn't want to. But I'm supposed to believe she has like the 3 worse HS coaches ever and then Salazar as well?
There clearly isn't a zero percent chance that she was the problem and the common denominator here, but at least the RW reviewer had some skepticism to begin with.
RW wrote:
Early in the book you might find yourself questioning Cain’s repeated assertions that the world had positioned itself against her in almost every way. Then you get deep enough into the book, and you realize that, of course, it had.But why would her breasts be exposed? Someone who has read the book, can you write exactly what she has alleged by Salazar and HS coach in terms of sex?
Can someone explain to me why she had to live with him? I understand that this happens or at least isn’t rare. But surely Nike had the money to provide housing for their athletes. Or did her parents genuinely think that she would be safer and her life easier if she stayed with him, presumably because she was still a high schooler and wouldn’t have to worry about cooking for herself and all the household stuff?
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Confusing wrote:
wsj reader wrote:
I started the thread yesterday about how I read in the WSJ review of Cain's memoir that Cain claims her HS coach took a perverse interest in her sex life. Today I've read another review in RW and find out she's accused Salazar of looking at her exposed breasts?
Yet another day. Yet another sexual allegation.
I guess I'm going to have to buy this book. I really didn't want to. But I'm supposed to believe she has like the 3 worse HS coaches ever and then Salazar as well?
There clearly isn't a zero percent chance that she was the problem and the common denominator here, but at least the RW reviewer had some skepticism to begin with.
But why would her breasts be exposed? Someone who has read the book, can you write exactly what she has alleged by Salazar and HS coach in terms of sex?
Yeah I don't really understand this at all. Whatever else he's done, it's not his fault if he looks in a room and someone is for some reason topless? How would he know they were going to be in a state of undress? I don't understand why someone wouldn't be wearing a T shirt at all times at a coach's house either. Don't get it.
Did her guest room door not have a lock? The universal protocol is to lock the door when you want privacy. If there is no lock, you at least close the door shut to indicate need for privacy. The other side of that protocol is to knock and wait for a response, not just barge in.
It’s unclear who violated what etiquette in this alleged mysterious misdemeanor of exposed breast witnessing.
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screen name stolen again wrote:
rojo wrote:
You think Salazar can sue us for letting people talk about a Runners World review of Cain's book? That't not how it works. WE live in America. There is a 1st ammendment. We didn't a) publish the book b) publish the review of the book. All we did was c) allow people to talk about a and b.
NO, I know he's not going to waste his time with this slander. But I was hoping you'd show some respect for the man and at least change the heading. He's been married for over 25 years with three kids. You really think his marriage would have lasted if he was some type of degenerate pervert. The girl is crazy. And Runner's World is just another liberal rag that should just go away.
Most child molesters are married. Research shows that child molesters are often known to the victim and may use a "normal" family life to avoid suspicion.
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kuundi wrote:
wsj reader wrote:
I started the thread yesterday about how I read in the WSJ review of Cain's memoir that Cain claims her HS coach took a perverse interest in her sex life. Today I've read another review in RW and find out she's accused Salazar of looking at her exposed breasts?
Yet another day. Yet another sexual allegation.
I guess I'm going to have to buy this book. I really didn't want to. But I'm supposed to believe she has like the 3 worse HS coaches ever and then Salazar as well?
There clearly isn't a zero percent chance that she was the problem and the common denominator here, but at least the RW reviewer had some skepticism to begin with.
But why would her breasts be exposed? Someone who has read the book, can you write exactly what she has alleged by Salazar and HS coach in terms of sex?
Can someone explain to me why she had to live with him? I understand that this happens or at least isn’t rare. But surely Nike had the money to provide housing for their athletes. Or did her parents genuinely think that she would be safer and her life easier if she stayed with him, presumably because she was still a high schooler and wouldn’t have to worry about cooking for herself and all the household stuff?
Pretty sure Caitlin Chock lived with him for a little bit when she was working with him about 20 years ago. If I recall correctly, it was partially to make sure she was getting healthy, home-cooked meals. I don't think it's anything too troubling in and of itself assuming Mrs. Salazar and maybe his kids were around. Invading a young girl's bedroom at night is much weirder*.
*I'm giving Mary the benefit of the doubt that Salazar didn't tell her in advance that he'd be coming into her room to mess with the altitude tent, hence why she had an expectation of privacy and wasn't fully clothed.
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Given the allegations against Salazar, including sexually assaulting Kara Goucher and penetrating a runner with a finger while giving an athletic massage, it seems inconsistent to treat it as surprising or out of character that he would look at a runner’s breasts while she slept. Why is that being framed as the unlikely part?
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All so very disturbing.
A guy I was teammates with lived in Bronxville, his daughter ran on the 4x8 with Mary in High School.
The girls all got along, enjoyed Mary, and the coach was a good guy.
Not sure why it’s all so different now.
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i read it too! wrote:
as critical as I am of Mary with certain competitors etc, this book was actually a difficult and heartbreaking read. Whatever you think of Mary or her parents and their choices, this was a horrible situation for a teenager to be in. And Mary is SO naive, and SO innocent, and I think she's well meaning too. She just had no idea what she got herself into. I feel like she stepped into quicksand.
She was exposed to so much at such a young age; drug testing having to be chaperoned by Galen while peeing, flying across the country during the school year to stay in her coaches house and having him walk in on you while you were sleeping...skipping classes to be go to Europe and to be surrounded by unfriendly adults...hearing about your teammates getting shots in the backseats of cars, going to weird Nike parties, and having to train with a drug cheat, going to fake doctors who don't diagnose your very real stress fracture, and that was all before he destroyed her confidence and she started her ED.
She was so lonely throughout. That part broke my heart. She just didn't have anyone and she was so hopeful that this team would be the team she always wished she had. It was awful to read about her keeping her faith in these people who just so obviously did not care about her.
We talk a lot about Mary and her parents, but what about Salazar? Why on earth would he choose to train a teenager the way he did? That was on him. He wasn't a high school coach.
Bring out the little violin. It’s not Salazar’s job to find her little girlfriends to hang out with. And if she was so miserable why didn’t her parents step in and pull her away from this life, and as a so called intelligent young woman why didn’t she say enough and go home?! Because there were tons of zeros behind the $$$$
1213 -
There are stats wrote:
i read it too! wrote:
as critical as I am of Mary with certain competitors etc, this book was actually a difficult and heartbreaking read. Whatever you think of Mary or her parents and their choices, this was a horrible situation for a teenager to be in. And Mary is SO naive, and SO innocent, and I think she's well meaning too. She just had no idea what she got herself into. I feel like she stepped into quicksand.
She was exposed to so much at such a young age; drug testing having to be chaperoned by Galen while peeing, flying across the country during the school year to stay in her coaches house and having him walk in on you while you were sleeping...skipping classes to be go to Europe and to be surrounded by unfriendly adults...hearing about your teammates getting shots in the backseats of cars, going to weird Nike parties, and having to train with a drug cheat, going to fake doctors who don't diagnose your very real stress fracture, and that was all before he destroyed her confidence and she started her ED.
She was so lonely throughout. That part broke my heart. She just didn't have anyone and she was so hopeful that this team would be the team she always wished she had. It was awful to read about her keeping her faith in these people who just so obviously did not care about her.
We talk a lot about Mary and her parents, but what about Salazar? Why on earth would he choose to train a teenager the way he did? That was on him. He wasn't a high school coach.
Bring out the little violin. It’s not Salazar’s job to find her little girlfriends to hang out with. And if she was so miserable why didn’t her parents step in and pull her away from this life, and as a so called intelligent young woman why didn’t she say enough and go home?! Because there were tons of zeros behind the $
I question Mary’s parents but I also question Galen’s parents for the record. They handed their son to Alberto to control.
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