1. Drugs can be easily obtained via the internet and gyms. So this is untrue? 2. There is virtually no testing at school and college level. So this is untrue? 3. There are plenty of athletes who are ambitious and will do whatever they can to succeed, and particularly when they know others are likely doping. So this is untrue? 4. There are athletes who have become aware that teammates and others have doped or who suspect they have doped. So they are making this up? 5. Doping is throughout the sport at elite and professional levels. It is known to be in schools. Athletes don't suddenly become ambitious to succeed when they have left college. This is untrue? But so much "gossip and tall tales". That is the only thing that is true? It is easy to see how denial works. Deny everything inconvenient to your views.
What an awkward way to edit the nested quote with your responses in italics. I almost missed it completely.
Recall the question you attempted to answer was whether there was any general consensus among the fans about what "doping is very common in colllege (sic)" means. It is meaningless if the statement means 100 different things to 100 different people.
Not sure who "they" are in #3 and #4, or what "plenty" really means in #3, or the relevance of #4 (over and above the general relevance of #1-#5) or if #5 shouldn't be separated into three parts, but even if all 5 of these points are 100% true in all of its parts, this brings us no closer to learning if doping is "very common" in college, rather than just rare exceptions.
Yeah, mf-er; they are enough! This isn't criminal court. This is us talking about low stakes for not winning at something, high rewards for succeeding at something
A doping positive won't ruin someone's life. Just like the single time I used a schedule 1 illicit substance that someone placed in my mouth, a little tuft of Mary jane in a cute pipe, no bogeyman came after my rump. It was something I did on a date with a college chick off the campus of NCSU on trailwood when I was 19.
The substances used to dope aren't even fun or addictive, let alone schedule 1.
Yeah, mf-er; they are enough! This isn't criminal court. This is us talking about low stakes for not winning at something, high rewards for succeeding at something
A doping positive won't ruin someone's life. Just like the single time I used a schedule 1 illicit substance that someone placed in my mouth, a little tuft of Mary jane in a cute pipe, no bogeyman came after my rump. It was something I did on a date with a college chick off the campus of NCSU on trailwood when I was 19.
The substances used to dope aren't even fun or addictive, let alone schedule 1.
Discussing what might be possible is not enough to show what college athletes are actually doing.
We aren't (at least I'm not) trying to indict particular athletes a la the anti-doping organizations - we're simply being realistic about the endemic reality of cheating - cheating in many formats.
I've been around college prep students, I've worked for municipal government, I've been a cheater and have spoken to and had former cheaters confide in / try to uplift me when I opened up to them, and I've been involved in bodybuilding forums both as a lurker and as a user of PEDs.
While I did not use PEDs while competing as an athlete, and while the PEDs I used were very ineffectual for performance enhancement, and rather taken as a last ditch effort to try to force height/ clavicle growth at age 21 & to augment my appearance, many of them were on banned substance lists. These include growth hormone secretagogues (subcutaneous & oral), misc peptides (TB-500, BPC-157, GHK-Cu, and melanotan), as well as flurbiprofen (NSAID labeled for ophthalmic use but also rodent studies showing long bone growth) and aromatase inhibitor (exemestane, labeled for ER+ breast cancers with the capacity to reduce estradiol up to 75% and increase FT as a side effect by up to 50%).
I went to a Christian prep school with lots of kids who went to parties to drink underage. Some peers used drugs. Many more peers began these behaviors upon leaving to go to college. I was one of the few naive abstainers and losers of my school who never got any play or used substances, never went to parties, etc.
Nonetheless - I have had a good breadth of experience in life seeing time theft, skeevy self-serving behaviors in retail and at Amazon, various forms of academic integrity violation, various forms of cheating in relationships, and lots of doping, at least within the online fitness community and typical gyms at which I've been a member. People do what they can get away with, generally speaking, and this is probably more pronounced in competitive young folks whose PFCs are still cooking.
We aren't (at least I'm not) trying to indict particular athletes a la the anti-doping organizations - we're simply being realistic about the endemic reality of cheating - cheating in many formats.
I've been around college prep students, I've worked for municipal government, I've been a cheater and have spoken to and had former cheaters confide in / try to uplift me when I opened up to them, and I've been involved in bodybuilding forums both as a lurker and as a user of PEDs.
While I did not use PEDs while competing as an athlete, and while the PEDs I used were very ineffectual for performance enhancement, and rather taken as a last ditch effort to try to force height/ clavicle growth at age 21 & to augment my appearance, many of them were on banned substance lists. These include growth hormone secretagogues (subcutaneous & oral), misc peptides (TB-500, BPC-157, GHK-Cu, and melanotan), as well as flurbiprofen (NSAID labeled for ophthalmic use but also rodent studies showing long bone growth) and aromatase inhibitor (exemestane, labeled for ER+ breast cancers with the capacity to reduce estradiol up to 75% and increase FT as a side effect by up to 50%).
I went to a Christian prep school with lots of kids who went to parties to drink underage. Some peers used drugs. Many more peers began these behaviors upon leaving to go to college. I was one of the few naive abstainers and losers of my school who never got any play or used substances, never went to parties, etc.
Nonetheless - I have had a good breadth of experience in life seeing time theft, skeevy self-serving behaviors in retail and at Amazon, various forms of academic integrity violation, various forms of cheating in relationships, and lots of doping, at least within the online fitness community and typical gyms at which I've been a member. People do what they can get away with, generally speaking, and this is probably more pronounced in competitive young folks whose PFCs are still cooking.
You are futilely trying to penetrate concrete denial.
Yeah, mf-er; they are enough! This isn't criminal court. This is us talking about low stakes for not winning at something, high rewards for succeeding at something
A doping positive won't ruin someone's life. Just like the single time I used a schedule 1 illicit substance that someone placed in my mouth, a little tuft of Mary jane in a cute pipe, no bogeyman came after my rump. It was something I did on a date with a college chick off the campus of NCSU on trailwood when I was 19.
The substances used to dope aren't even fun or addictive, let alone schedule 1.
Discussing what might be possible is not enough to show what college athletes are actually doing.
It isn't "possible"; it is happening. In the absence of testing athletes will cheat and they won't be caught. What proves beyond doubt that many will dope is your own fanaticism that they aren't doping; many highly-motivated athletes are as determined to succeed as you are to maintain they don't cheat.
This post was edited 31 seconds after it was posted.
We aren't (at least I'm not) trying to indict particular athletes a la the anti-doping organizations - we're simply being realistic about the endemic reality of cheating - cheating in many formats.
I've been around college prep students, I've worked for municipal government, I've been a cheater and have spoken to and had former cheaters confide in / try to uplift me when I opened up to them, and I've been involved in bodybuilding forums both as a lurker and as a user of PEDs.
While I did not use PEDs while competing as an athlete, and while the PEDs I used were very ineffectual for performance enhancement, and rather taken as a last ditch effort to try to force height/ clavicle growth at age 21 & to augment my appearance, many of them were on banned substance lists. These include growth hormone secretagogues (subcutaneous & oral), misc peptides (TB-500, BPC-157, GHK-Cu, and melanotan), as well as flurbiprofen (NSAID labeled for ophthalmic use but also rodent studies showing long bone growth) and aromatase inhibitor (exemestane, labeled for ER+ breast cancers with the capacity to reduce estradiol up to 75% and increase FT as a side effect by up to 50%).
I went to a Christian prep school with lots of kids who went to parties to drink underage. Some peers used drugs. Many more peers began these behaviors upon leaving to go to college. I was one of the few naive abstainers and losers of my school who never got any play or used substances, never went to parties, etc.
Nonetheless - I have had a good breadth of experience in life seeing time theft, skeevy self-serving behaviors in retail and at Amazon, various forms of academic integrity violation, various forms of cheating in relationships, and lots of doping, at least within the online fitness community and typical gyms at which I've been a member. People do what they can get away with, generally speaking, and this is probably more pronounced in competitive young folks whose PFCs are still cooking.
Of course cheating is real. But this thread starts out saying it is "very common" -- do we all have a common idea of what is "very common"?
Previously you said:
Look; back a few years ago when guys like me were saying that guys like Nick Bare were juicing, some of you guys resisted. Now, it's apparent and without a shadow of a doubt that we were right. Everybody is juicing. Obviously there are exceptions, but the fact is, some of the most competitive-spirited folk who are some of the most successful folk are also some of the best at keeping a secret and trying their damnedest to hide it.
Now you say: "this is probably more pronounced in competitive young folks".
Can we put "very common" in better perspective? You say "fitness" and "body-building" and "gym", but this is a running site. Are any of us even having the same conversation? I'm wondering, is it very common in college distance running? I'm sure many in college, athletes and non-athletes, have dabbled in recreational drugs which are banned by WADA. Are we talking about that too? I would agree it is not ridiculous for someone to say that smoking pot is common in college -- I know many who did it in high school.
Can you explain to me how you got from "cheating is real" and "probably more pronounced in competitive young folks" to "Now, it's apparent and without a shadow of doubt .... Everybody is juicing." How can you speak for everybody?
Discussing what might be possible is not enough to show what college athletes are actually doing.
It isn't "possible"; it is happening. In the absence of testing athletes will cheat and they won't be caught. What proves beyond doubt that many will dope is your own fanaticism that they aren't doping; many highly-motivated athletes are as determined to succeed as you are to maintain they don't cheat.
Once again you retreat into arguing against things I never said. I have no doubt "many" will dope and "many" are doping. I have no doubt that "many" are "highly motivated" -- that doesn't mean they are all cheating, even if some of them do, and some of them get caught.
How do we give a better perspective in this thread in a running site which is just about college athletes? Recall I'm just asking if there is a consensus here regarding what "very common" means. Are we having 1 conversation, or 100? Are we excluding non-runners and recreational drugs? What does it mean to say "very common" as opposed to just "common", or like you say now, "many"?
It's also true that "many" in college want to compete the right way, without cheating.
Can you participate in a conversation about the realities of the doping problem which is not vague and subjective?
This post was edited 12 minutes after it was posted.
So you can't tell us how many races Valby has run this year. Interesting that you keep talking about her on a doping thread.
Everyone can tell "us" about her races. You are the one who can't.
It took me less than one minute to google find a few headlines. It's the Kenyan world record holders story all over again, where he had trouble counting beyond 2, even after being given the right answer, twice, and instead blamed everyone else for him not making the most minimum effort to support his own statements.
This post was edited 39 seconds after it was posted.
It isn't "possible"; it is happening. In the absence of testing athletes will cheat and they won't be caught. What proves beyond doubt that many will dope is your own fanaticism that they aren't doping; many highly-motivated athletes are as determined to succeed as you are to maintain they don't cheat.
Once again you retreat into arguing against things I never said. I have no doubt "many" will dope and "many" are doping. I have no doubt that "many" are "highly motivated" -- that doesn't mean they are all cheating, even if some of them do, and some of them get caught.
How do we give a better perspective in this thread in a running site which is just about college athletes? Recall I'm just asking if there is a consensus here regarding what "very common" means. Are we having 1 conversation, or 100? Are we excluding non-runners and recreational drugs? What does it mean to say "very common" as opposed to just "common", or like you say now, "many"?
It's also true that "many" in college want to compete the right way, without cheating.
Can you participate in a conversation about the realities of the doping problem which is not vague and subjective?
Everyone can tell "us" about her races. You are the one who can't.
It took me less than one minute to google find a few headlines. It's the Kenyan world record holders story all over again, where he had trouble counting beyond 2, even after being given the right answer, twice, and instead blamed everyone else for him not making the most minimum effort to support his own statements.
So you join those too coy to say how many races she has run this year. Until the Olympics last year there was virtually a weekly thread on Valby. Since then there has been one that talks about her getting a new coach, after months of nothing about her except speculation of injury to account for her apparent disappearance. If that is a professional athlete what has she been doing to earn a living?
Visiting threads like these is a useful reminder that there really is no limit to human stupidity. Your unending denial of doping, wherever it may turn up, tops the bill.
Visiting threads like these is a useful reminder that there really is no limit to human stupidity. Your unending denial of doping, wherever it may turn up, tops the bill.
Maybe you should look in a mirror for stupidity. You are the one who continues to argue with him in every thread. Or maybe just the narcissist in you that thinks you are so much smarter and must have the last word
It took me less than one minute to google find a few headlines. It's the Kenyan world record holders story all over again, where he had trouble counting beyond 2, even after being given the right answer, twice, and instead blamed everyone else for him not making the most minimum effort to support his own statements.
So you join those too coy to say how many races she has run this year. Until the Olympics last year there was virtually a weekly thread on Valby. Since then there has been one that talks about her getting a new coach, after months of nothing about her except speculation of injury to account for her apparent disappearance. If that is a professional athlete what has she been doing to earn a living?
I don't know how many, nor do I generally read Valby threads. But I did find more than 1, and I did see mention of an injury -- that is something that happens to athletes, including professional athletes.