why does David Roche keep banging on about being in sub-4 at altitude shape?

Podblaster wrote:

It’s all to build a brand and cash in. Nothing more, nothing less. I think after the crash and the Leadville win, David’s narcissism was unleashed. He realized that he and Megan only have a few good racing years left, and those years could disappear in an instant.

So sell yourself now: whore yourself out to Adidas (they clearly didn’t bite though), sell your soul to The Feed, market the hell out of yourself to Wahoo, create a WSER training mini-series that is going to rival Unbreakable (you know that’s where his head is). At this point, if it isn’t nailed down in the Roche household, it’s fodder for negotiating the next sponsorship.

The only problem is, after the Spring fiasco, after shilling AG-1 to all of their athletes, who can believe a word they say about the products they’re endorsing.

Bently wrote:

Podblaster wrote:

It’s all to build a brand and cash in. Nothing more, nothing less. I think after the crash and the Leadville win, David’s narcissism was unleashed. He realized that he and Megan only have a few good racing years left, and those years could disappear in an instant.

So sell yourself now: whore yourself out to Adidas (they clearly didn’t bite though), sell your soul to The Feed, market the hell out of yourself to Wahoo, create a WSER training mini-series that is going to rival Unbreakable (you know that’s where his head is). At this point, if it isn’t nailed down in the Roche household, it’s fodder for negotiating the next sponsorship.

The only problem is, after the Spring fiasco, after shilling AG-1 to all of their athletes, who can believe a word they say about the products they’re endorsing.

Do they really need literal cash though? Strikes me that their lifestyle is already one with plenty of money and privilege. Which makes it even worse that they would mislead people.

I'd say David's antics would have to be driven more by sheer ego and the need for attention instead? Financial stability does not seem to be an issue for them.

Bently wrote:

Podblaster wrote:

It’s all to build a brand and cash in. Nothing more, nothing less. I think after the crash and the Leadville win, David’s narcissism was unleashed. He realized that he and Megan only have a few good racing years left, and those years could disappear in an instant.

So sell yourself now: whore yourself out to Adidas (they clearly didn’t bite though), sell your soul to The Feed, market the hell out of yourself to Wahoo, create a WSER training mini-series that is going to rival Unbreakable (you know that’s where his head is). At this point, if it isn’t nailed down in the Roche household, it’s fodder for negotiating the next sponsorship.

The only problem is, after the Spring fiasco, after shilling AG-1 to all of their athletes, who can believe a word they say about the products they’re endorsing.

Do they really need literal cash though? Strikes me that their lifestyle is already one with plenty of money and privilege. Which makes it even worse that they would mislead people.

I'd say David's antics would have to be driven more by sheer ego and the need for attention instead? Financial stability does not seem to be an issue for them.

Podblaster wrote:

It’s all to build a brand and cash in. Nothing more, nothing less. I think after the crash and the Leadville win, David’s narcissism was unleashed. He realized that he and Megan only have a few good racing years left, and those years could disappear in an instant.

So sell yourself now: whore yourself out to Adidas (they clearly didn’t bite though), sell your soul to The Feed, market the hell out of yourself to Wahoo, create a WSER training mini-series that is going to rival Unbreakable (you know that’s where his head is). At this point, if it isn’t nailed down in the Roche household, it’s fodder for negotiating the next sponsorship.

The only problem is, after the Spring fiasco, after shilling AG-1 to all of their athletes, who can believe a word they say about the products they’re endorsing.

Podblaster wrote:

It’s all to build a brand and cash in. Nothing more, nothing less. I think after the crash and the Leadville win, David’s narcissism was unleashed. He realized that he and Megan only have a few good racing years left, and those years could disappear in an instant.

So sell yourself now: whore yourself out to Adidas (they clearly didn’t bite though), sell your soul to The Feed, market the hell out of yourself to Wahoo, create a WSER training mini-series that is going to rival Unbreakable (you know that’s where his head is). At this point, if it isn’t nailed down in the Roche household, it’s fodder for negotiating the next sponsorship.

The only problem is, after the Spring fiasco, after shilling AG-1 to all of their athletes, who can believe a word they say about the products they’re endorsing.

Ok well wrote:

Podblaster wrote:

It’s all to build a brand and cash in. Nothing more, nothing less. I think after the crash and the Leadville win, David’s narcissism was unleashed. He realized that he and Megan only have a few good racing years left, and those years could disappear in an instant.

So sell yourself now: whore yourself out to Adidas (they clearly didn’t bite though), sell your soul to The Feed, market the hell out of yourself to Wahoo, create a WSER training mini-series that is going to rival Unbreakable (you know that’s where his head is). At this point, if it isn’t nailed down in the Roche household, it’s fodder for negotiating the next sponsorship.

The only problem is, after the Spring fiasco, after shilling AG-1 to all of their athletes, who can believe a word they say about the products they’re endorsing.

They probably were already making over 500k a year without coaching I bet.

Ok well wrote:

Podblaster wrote:

It’s all to build a brand and cash in. Nothing more, nothing less. I think after the crash and the Leadville win, David’s narcissism was unleashed. He realized that he and Megan only have a few good racing years left, and those years could disappear in an instant.

So sell yourself now: whore yourself out to Adidas (they clearly didn’t bite though), sell your soul to The Feed, market the hell out of yourself to Wahoo, create a WSER training mini-series that is going to rival Unbreakable (you know that’s where his head is). At this point, if it isn’t nailed down in the Roche household, it’s fodder for negotiating the next sponsorship.

The only problem is, after the Spring fiasco, after shilling AG-1 to all of their athletes, who can believe a word they say about the products they’re endorsing.

If you’re going to use this critique might as well use it for all pro runners. He’s not the only pro athlete coach. Also not the only pro athlete that gives cut and paste plans. Some of this critique is ludicrous. Might as well critique Courtney and Jim for being sponsored by wahoo and the feed. The AG-1 is legitimate critique but as far as I know they dropped them.

bn9149 wrote:

whatsthestory wrote:

They definitely didn't shill AG1 to all of their athletes and I know lots of athletes who are happy with their coaching currently too. I don't think they deserve the pure hatred they get. Sure, maybe some people like to pick apart David's strava data and maybe he's embracing more confidence than he has in the past because he's pumping himself up to swing for the fences at WSER, but I really don't think that writing them off as horrible narcissists is correct. They've done a lot of really positive, life changing things for a lot of people.

Have you ever been a SWAP athlete (genuinely asking, not being combative)? I'm speaking from experience, not speculation FWIW. If all the behind the scenes were exposed I'm pretty sure most people would agree they deserve the hatred they get. Context and influence in the sport is important here and in isolation I really don't care what David, or anyone does, but it's the deceit and toxic behavior that is a problem. David is a narcissist, he always has been. But this is just giving him the platform to really show it.

Regarding the people who are still coached by them, I obviously can't speak to that. But what I can tell you, for certain, is:
1. There's a ton of attrition, many, many with him now will not be with him for the long haul. 2. He's manipulative. He'll say what you want to hear at the time you need to hear it, gaslight you, then business as usual - rinse and repeat. Stockholm syndrome.
3. Many, if not all, of their pros are so talented they could be coached by a brick wall and have the same success.
4. Clearly there's a major cult mentality/following with SWAP and for the average athlete they coach being told 'YOU'RE AMAZING!!! YOU'RE AN ELITE BOSSS!!!!!!!!!!!' is apparently worth whatever they pay per month.

So, no, I don't think all of their athletes are dumb. But I do think there's a massive amount of delusion and also most of their followers now are not their athletes, they're just patreon/podcast listeners, and that's almost worse because so much more can go over their heads.

forRoche Rocks!!! wrote:

bn9149 wrote:

Have you ever been a SWAP athlete (genuinely asking, not being combative)? I'm speaking from experience, not speculation FWIW. If all the behind the scenes were exposed I'm pretty sure most people would agree they deserve the hatred they get. Context and influence in the sport is important here and in isolation I really don't care what David, or anyone does, but it's the deceit and toxic behavior that is a problem. David is a narcissist, he always has been. But this is just giving him the platform to really show it.

Regarding the people who are still coached by them, I obviously can't speak to that. But what I can tell you, for certain, is:
1. There's a ton of attrition, many, many with him now will not be with him for the long haul. 2. He's manipulative. He'll say what you want to hear at the time you need to hear it, gaslight you, then business as usual - rinse and repeat. Stockholm syndrome.
3. Many, if not all, of their pros are so talented they could be coached by a brick wall and have the same success.
4. Clearly there's a major cult mentality/following with SWAP and for the average athlete they coach being told 'YOU'RE AMAZING!!! YOU'RE AN ELITE BOSSS!!!!!!!!!!!' is apparently worth whatever they pay per month.

So, no, I don't think all of their athletes are dumb. But I do think there's a massive amount of delusion and also most of their followers now are not their athletes, they're just patreon/podcast listeners, and that's almost worse because so much more can go over their heads.

So you were a SWAP athlete? When, for how long, how was it, why’d you leave etc

1. Yes
2. 2020-2022/23 (grey area when I officially left...it was a slow burn)
3 & 4. It was honestly terrible? He burnt me out right out of the gate; I was a former elite in a different sport (trying to not dox myself here haha) and had a running background. David saw a lot of potential but instead of a slow build we went from 0-60 (literally) immediately, despite me flagging I was injury prone due to a tumultuous past with my other sport. I was told my "limiting beliefs" were holding me back when I started to mention consistent niggles. Flagged concern it was a bone injury. I was told to rest for 3 days. Came back and said it was worse, he told me it was "impossible to have a bone injury" at my mileage. Sure enough, tibial stress fracture. Told me to rest for two weeks. Got another stress fracture. I was reprimanded for strength training, for cross training, the gaslighting and manipulation was unreal. The list goes on and on.