Theory strategy was to have Kelati lead. That was the best strategy. They assumed that she would run faster which would have given them an even better chance. There are dozens of things happening simultaneously.
is it just me or btc girls including former btc member infeld all agreed and planned all this...the slow start and an all out mile ... they must have trained for it weeks prior
it seemed like that was their plan going in this because if not, i dont see why they would NOT push the pace knowing they got the best 5k times of the field
Theory strategy was to have Kelati lead. That was the best strategy. They assumed that she would run faster which would have given them an even better chance. There are dozens of things happening simultaneously.
is it just me or btc girls including former btc member infeld all agreed and planned all this...the slow start and an all out mile ... they must have trained for it weeks prior
it seemed like that was their plan going in this because if not, i dont see why they would NOT push the pace knowing they got the best 5k times of the field
it is championship racing, so of course they are prepared for it to happen. they are also the fastest runners in the field, for the most part. maybe this type of race could have played into Elle's hands if she had better fitness. I don't think there were really any other threats out there.
Be glad that Kelat didn't run 14:40 or Tuohy would have gotten lapped.
that was what she was hoping for, a 14:40 pace, if u think she was gonna get lapped, youre exaggerating, stop making yourself look funny, coz shes not.. she will most probably finish with a PR if that was the race because that was the type of race she was training for, not a 3-lane obstacle run
If she wanted a fast race that was not tightly packed nothing was stopping her from going to the front and pushing the pace.
What I don't get is why so many pros let the Bowerman babes get away with controlling the race at such a slow pace. Especially with Schweitzer having run the 1500 the day before. At least make her work for this.
Who do you think could have stopped them? And how?
The sad fact is that the BB are so much better than anyone else in this field that nobody could stop them. Kelati tried, but couldn't.
Maybe if Emily Sisson had been in the race, she could have cranked it up early and run away from the BBs. But Sisson wasn't there, and nobody else was up to the job.
PS I'd say the BB worked for their victory. I'm sure they were hurting after running those last few laps. If you don't believe me, check out the look on Tuohy's face when she is asked whether she was ready for their kick.
I don't know. But it seems like if the first 2 miles are a jog and then it becomes a mile race it should have been a perfect set up for Purrier and Norris. Yet they were nowhere to be found when the racing started.
She didn't run 14:40 pace after jogging the 1st 1/2 of the race. She would have gotten lapped in a 14:40 race without question. She is a good NCAA runner but nowhere near the level of the best US runners. She got dropped bad.
She didn't run 14:40 pace after jogging the 1st 1/2 of the race. She would have gotten lapped in a 14:40 race without question. She is a good NCAA runner but nowhere near the level of the best US runners. She got dropped bad.
i dont see why they would NOT push the pace knowing they got the best 5k times of the field
1) If you want to understand professional races, you have to stop focusing on PRs. They are largely irrelevant in many (maybe most) races, except to the extent they measure overall fitness.
2) Yes, the women who won have the best PRs. Butthey also have the best kicks, as we saw on Sunday.
3) Every track fan knew they would run like this on Sunday. This sort of race, where they start slow, and run as a pack for the early portion of the race, until at some point the faster runners began to wind up the pace and pull away from the others, is called a "tactical race."
4) The opposite of a tactical race is a "time trial." In time trials, there is often a pace-setter, who sets a faster (and more even) pace than in a tactical race. Because the pace is faster, the runners spread out early on. The wind up at the end starts farther out, and is more gradual.
5) The time trial's faster and more even pace makes it easier to run faster times. Most PRs are set in time trials. (The Monaco DL is famous/notorious for its TTs and fast races full of PRs.)
6) For a variety of reasons, most races, especially championship races, are tactical (although few of them are as slow as the women's 5 or the men's 15). Exactly how the race develops depends on the specifics of the race. For example, all of the races Sunday morning were tactical, but only the Women's 5 was this slow (as was the men's 1500, which was so slow it p*ssed off many posters).
7) Generally speaking, running fast PRs and winning tactical races require different skills and abilities. Time trials favor runners who can run faster over longer distances; tactical races favor runners with a good kick who can "see their opportunities and take them."
8) Two of America's most successful mid-d runners, Jenny Simpson and Matt Centrowitz, were not the fastest runners in the world. Yet Centro was such a master tactician, he won gold at the Rio Olympics against a field filled with runners with better PRs. Centro ran 3:50, well over his 3:30 PR. (Centro was so slow that when he set his PR, he finished 10th!). Yet because Centro timed his moves perfectly, he beat everyone in RIo.
9) Right now, the best men's mid-d runner, Jakob Ingebrigtsen, is a time trialer. Because he can't kick as well as his competitors, he can only win if he takes off early, running a faster, more even pace. By end of the race, kickers are either so far behind Ingebrigtsen that they "have run out of track" and can't catch him, or they are closer but have "run their kick out" keeping up with him, and can't catch him. Either way, he wins.
10) Obviously, I've left out a lot of important details, but this should give you tne general idea. I'm sure other posters will chime in and correct any mistakes or omissions.
11) There are, generally speaking, two kinds of track fans: Those who like TTs, and those who like tactical races. Fans of tactical races consider time trials boring and pointless ("just give th medal to the gal with the best PR!"), while fans of time trials consider tactical races the result of cowardice and moral decay.
12) As for Sunday's race, it seems unlikely the BBs or Infeld trained specifically for this race. As was mentioned several times above, their goal is to develop enough tools that they can react appropriately to a range of moves by their competition during a race.
For example, Infeld came 3d by .2 seconds in the 10,000 at Pre. Since then, she has been working on her speed. As a result, she was able to kick with Cranny and Schweizer on Sunday.
What a fan that you are laughing about Tuohy getting dropped. Yes she and a bunch of runners got dropped bad. She is far behind the top.Americans. A bunch of posters claimed that only 2 runners were superior and that Tuohy was in a group in the hunt for 3rd. As you pointed out, four runners were superior. Add Monson to the list. Tuohy is not close to the top Americans. 4 dropped her and Monson is probably faster than all of them. I am glad that you have realized this but laughing about your former hero is a bit too much.
i dont see why they would NOT push the pace knowing they got the best 5k times of the field
1) If you want to understand professional races, you have to stop focusing on PRs. They are largely irrelevant in many (maybe most) races, except to the extent they measure overall fitness.
2) Yes, the women who won have the best PRs. Butthey also have the best kicks, as we saw on Sunday.
3) Every track fan knew they would run like this on Sunday. This sort of race, where they start slow, and run as a pack for the early portion of the race, until at some point the faster runners began to wind up the pace and pull away from the others, is called a "tactical race."
4) The opposite of a tactical race is a "time trial." In time trials, there is often a pace-setter, who sets a faster (and more even) pace than in a tactical race. Because the pace is faster, the runners spread out early on. The wind up at the end starts farther out, and is more gradual.
5) The time trial's faster and more even pace makes it easier to run faster times. Most PRs are set in time trials. (The Monaco DL is famous/notorious for its TTs and fast races full of PRs.)
6) For a variety of reasons, most races, especially championship races, are tactical (although few of them are as slow as the women's 5 or the men's 15). Exactly how the race develops depends on the specifics of the race. For example, all of the races Sunday morning were tactical, but only the Women's 5 was this slow (as was the men's 1500, which was so slow it p*ssed off many posters).
7) Generally speaking, running fast PRs and winning tactical races require different skills and abilities. Time trials favor runners who can run faster over longer distances; tactical races favor runners with a good kick who can "see their opportunities and take them."
8) Two of America's most successful mid-d runners, Jenny Simpson and Matt Centrowitz, were not the fastest runners in the world. Yet Centro was such a master tactician, he won gold at the Rio Olympics against a field filled with runners with better PRs. Centro ran 3:50, well over his 3:30 PR. (Centro was so slow that when he set his PR, he finished 10th!). Yet because Centro timed his moves perfectly, he beat everyone in RIo.
9) Right now, the best men's mid-d runner, Jakob Ingebrigtsen, is a time trialer. Because he can't kick as well as his competitors, he can only win if he takes off early, running a faster, more even pace. By end of the race, kickers are either so far behind Ingebrigtsen that they "have run out of track" and can't catch him, or they are closer but have "run their kick out" keeping up with him, and can't catch him. Either way, he wins.
10) Obviously, I've left out a lot of important details, but this should give you tne general idea. I'm sure other posters will chime in and correct any mistakes or omissions.
11) There are, generally speaking, two kinds of track fans: Those who like TTs, and those who like tactical races. Fans of tactical races consider time trials boring and pointless ("just give th medal to the gal with the best PR!"), while fans of time trials consider tactical races the result of cowardice and moral decay.
12) As for Sunday's race, it seems unlikely the BBs or Infeld trained specifically for this race. As was mentioned several times above, their goal is to develop enough tools that they can react appropriately to a range of moves by their competition during a race.
For example, Infeld came 3d by .2 seconds in the 10,000 at Pre. Since then, she has been working on her speed. As a result, she was able to kick with Cranny and Schweizer on Sunday.
Great post. You are very patient to explain all of that. I agree with it all, but would add that it is possible to like to watch both kinds of races. In baseball, I like pitcher’s duals and I also like slugfests- and I love watching elite runners in all the ways they battle and express their talent.
Other factors aside genius, Tuohy is a few months past 20 and the the top three are 26, 26 and 32. Not that trolling is particularly clever, but lets give it a couple of years.