199. Here, it was obvious to the Panel that under the relevant provisions of the WADC 2021 dealing with the notion of Fault, it is not just possible but likely that Protected Persons will receive anti-doping sanctions at the level of a reprimand or at the bottom end (a few months) of the 0 to 2 years possible, principally because of their lack of legal capacity and their youth and immaturity. See generally WADC 2021 Definitions: Fault, No Significant Fault or Negligence, and No Fault or Negligence; WADC 2021 Articles 10.3.1, 10.6.3.1. The Panel does not make any findings in this regard; that is to be done by the usual anti-doping results management process given the very narrow remit of this Panel and what it was called upon to consider. Having said that, it is clear that even if that process finds a doping rule violation, the ability to show intention or fault of a minor athlete such as this one might be difficult, and, lacking that intention or fault, the sanction is likely to be on the low end of the range. Strict application of the rules as written for Provisional Suspensions would almost certainly in every case involving a Protected Minor result in a Provisional Suspension longer than the likely period of actual suspension. This is not satisfactory from a legal point of view.
My emphasis. This seems all there is to say at this point.
In the future;
2ng/mL is claimed to be under the detection limit of 10ng/mL. This is surely a factual item. If true then imho she is scot free.
The defence she is able to test is 'contaminated product'. This is different from snogging your grandfather, but that may be alleviated / replaced by the time factor.
The lab is an absolute disgrace. I send stuff to labs all over the world all the time. I dont do business with labs unless i get the report back within 5 working days of receipt of samples. every substance has a known standard, agreed test, and published detection level (and acceptance level). we did expect labs to have problems during covid. to our surprise, none did. there is constant communication between me and my single point of contact at the labs throughout the process. Me; sending and customs; them; customs, receipt, working - report.
Finally; endemic is used to specify that something is limited to that sphere. Therefore ped may be endemic to sport (almost by definition), but is certainly not endemic to russia since it exists outside russian sport. armstrongfails, but i bet he keeps digging.....
Where is the detail that supports the view that the reported concentration was below the detection limit; please.
Agree re explanation of “endemic”.Await an apology from Armstrong.
Liar soorer is back under another name. But the same AXIS-II disorders on display. And his illiteracy.
It doesn't mean that. It can be applied to any situation where a particular problem is widespread, such as the observation that "corruption can be found throughout a given organisation". Pedantry fail.
Not widespread!
To a particular area or type.
Lazy people or those with poor education may use it in the way you have used it.
Anyway are about 1.5 % of targeted tests positive to meaning of widespread.
Unless you mean these low levels are found throughout the world.
From Merriam-Webster.
Definition of endemic (Entry 1 of 2) 1a: belonging or native to a particular people or country b: characteristic of or prevalent in a particular field, area, or environment
2. That the interpretation of the standards of proof are far less for a child and could well resulted in no period of a ban.
3. That the UN declaration of the rights of a child was referenced to possibly, or more so,override WADA.
I read the whole thing. Point 2 is the main takeaway. Even if she is eventually found guilty, it's possible that she would only get a "public reprimand" and not a suspension, which would make her eligible to compete in this year's Olympics.
2ng/mL is claimed to be under the detection limit of 10ng/mL. This is surely a factual item. If true then imho she is scot free.
I have worked with test equipment in the past. The first you do BEFORE you look at the data is make sure the equipment has been calibrated. Then you look at the manufacturer's published accuracy of the result, the lowest reliable value, and the high reliable value. Accuracy tends to be better in middle range values, and less so at the top and bottom ends.
In this case, all results under 10 ng/ml are supposed to be discarded. Result under that value are not reliable.
I read the whole thing. Point 2 is the main takeaway. Even if she is eventually found guilty, it's possible that she would only get a "public reprimand" and not a suspension, which would make her eligible to compete in this year's Olympics.
You guys are living in the past. The CAS released their report and the level of TMZ was 5 times below the detectable limit. Let me restate that in simpler terms: there were no detectable amounts of TMZ in her sample. Nothing.
This is over. When the technical experts testify, the case will be dismissed immediately with prejudice. The best figure skater that ever lived was crucified for nothing. You all were part of it.
2. That the interpretation of the standards of proof are far less for a child and could well resulted in no period of a ban.
3. That the UN declaration of the rights of a child was referenced to possibly, or more so,override WADA.
I read the whole thing. Point 2 is the main takeaway. Even if she is eventually found guilty, it's possible that she would only get a "public reprimand" and not a suspension, which would make her eligible to compete in this year's Olympics.
Her test value was well below what the equipment can accurately measure. This unreliable test result should never have seen the light of day.
Lazy people or those with poor education may use it in the way you have used it.
Anyway are about 1.5 % of targeted tests positive to meaning of widespread.
Unless you mean these low levels are found throughout the world.
From Merriam-Webster.
Definition of endemic (Entry 1 of 2) 1a: belonging or native to a particular people or country b: characteristic of or prevalent in a particular field, area, or environment
I read the whole thing. Point 2 is the main takeaway. Even if she is eventually found guilty, it's possible that she would only get a "public reprimand" and not a suspension, which would make her eligible to compete in this year's Olympics.
Her test value was well below what the equipment can accurately measure. This unreliable test result should never have seen the light of day.
Don’t shoot yourself in the foot. We were not all a part of it.
I would be a part of raising the age limit to 18. They want 17, I say 18. Girls will still suffer for years at the hands of Tutberidze et al, but it would level the playing field.
People in Russia (and elsewhere of course) can be absolutely desperate for their kids to succeed. All they know is the school of hard knocks. It’s brutal, and some of it was again on display. We also saw it in the 90’s/early 00’s with some of their gymnasts.
No the US is not immune. Look at the destruction left in the wake of kids putting all their eggs in the NFL/NBA basket. Equally brutal and destructive of futures. How about Dominican Republic and baseball? They rise to the level of murder.
What to do? As a first step, raise the age to 18. IF Valieva had undetectable amounts of TMZ in her system, then maybe she wouldn’t have melted down, had she been more mature, because it would have been no big deal.
Yes, a cloistered 18-year-old can also be incredibly immature, but it would be a start.
Where are these amounts being reported? If it was below the detectable threshold, then that would not constitute an adverse analytic finding. If that were the case, Russia would not have taken any action in the first place, unless they are completely incompetent.
Something doesn’t add up here. I await more details, while Valieva unjustly continues to suffer.
Definition of endemic (Entry 1 of 2) 1a: belonging or native to a particular people or country b: characteristic of or prevalent in a particular field, area, or environment
This is all about leaking false information to the Western Media knowing they would crucify her . They were correct . ROC should just “Russia “ again , because the West, time and time again prove to play unfair .
1: A single use of this drug would result in concentrations in the range: 966 ng/ml –9000 ng/ml.
2: The amount detected in her sample was 2 ng/ml: about 500 to 5000 times lower than what would be expected if she ingested a full dose.
3: That amount (2 ng/ml) is well below the technical limit of detection, which is 10 ng/ml. [Wait, what? Why did they even consider this a positive result?]
4: Based on 3, RUSADA disputes the positive result and it may be a technical mistake by the laboratory. They requested the B-sample also be tested.
5: In order to derive any benefit from this drug, it must be ingested on a regular basis.
6: Kamila was tested multiple times before and after December and all tests were negative.
7. TMZ is forbidden for use in children and produces side effects like dizziness, which would be counter-productive in a sport like figure skating.
Thank you Bound4Glory, I agree with all the points above. ^^^^^^^
This case is so very similar to Shelby's. Once again, WADA did not provide proper due process, grievously hurt an athlete, and gave us a sporting event in which no one can believe. The result of the lab analysis, delayed beyond WADA's own time limits, should have been ignored/suppressed until after the Games were over. The whole reason why WADA/CAS was created in the first place was to support the timely needs of the Olympic Games. But rather than reform WADA, I think what we are really seeing is the beginning of the end of the modern Olympics. It has simply become too unwieldy to manage.
I am surprised no one has yet mentioned the name of Madisyn Cox. She tested positive for the same drug and eventually proved to CAS that her multi-vitamin was contaminated with it. If Valieva didn't get contaminated from her grandfather's supply, it is also entirely possible the other (legal) drugs she was taking were contaminated. 2 ng/ml is such a tiny amount and the testing equipment today is extremely sensitive.
The Court of Arbitration for Sport approved a reduction of Madisyn Cox's suspension from two years to six months after her multivitamin tested positive for Trimetazidine.
A case of misleading analysis, inaccurate statements, and bogus evidence For those unfamiliar with the case, American 1500 meter runner Shelby Houlihan revealed in a press conference on June 14th, …
The measurable limit accuracy of the test equipment is 10 ng/ml. A result under that value is not accurate. A 2 ng/ml "result" is disregarded.
says who?
says one supporter of Kimila. If this was true then surely the russians would be shouting this to the rooftops; i havent seen any evidence of this.
I would expect any substance to have a threshold value AND that the limit would be well within the calibrated capabilities of the machine / lab / procedures. And this is all published and agreed in advance.
The measurable limit accuracy of the test equipment is 10 ng/ml. A result under that value is not accurate. A 2 ng/ml "result" is disregarded.
says who?
says one supporter of Kimila. If this was true then surely the russians would be shouting this to the rooftops; i havent seen any evidence of this.
I would expect any substance to have a threshold value AND that the limit would be well within the calibrated capabilities of the machine / lab / procedures. And this is all published and agreed in advance.
so where is it and what is it?
I think the poster who suggested such has withdrawn comment.But others picked up on this first post.
You are right.
What did you think of CAS having a go at WADA over the delay?
The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) has accused the Court of Arbitration for Sport panel in the Kamila Valieva case of rewriting the Code after it dec...
The measurable limit accuracy of the test equipment is 10 ng/ml. A result under that value is not accurate. A 2 ng/ml "result" is disregarded.
If this was true then surely the russians would be shouting this to the rooftops
Yes, I have to agree. The 10 ng/ml was mentioned by the Russians in the CAS report. The applicants (IOC, WADA, ISU) did not challenge it. But since that would so clearly exonerate her, and since the Russians are not screaming about this, something is not right.
The document below lists WADA's Minimum Required Performance Levels (MRPL) for TMZ and other substances. MRPL is defined as the minimal requirement for the lab, but not minimal detectable level. The lab could be more sensitive than the MRPL. The MRPL for TMZ is 10. The same number in the CAS report.
I wonder if the Russians read the MRPL for TMZ and assumed that was the minimum detectable level? If so, we don't know the real minimum detectable level for that lab.
If you are on the "Kamila cheated" side: You can disregard any claims that "her TMZ level was 5 times below the detectable limit" until the detectable limits for this lab are better known.
If you are on the "Kamila is innocent side": Until we better know the lab's detectable limits, you have to rely on the facts that her TMZ levels are extremely low (500 to 5000 times below what normal for TMZ users), that this drug required repeated use to derive any benefit, and all her previous and subsequent tests were negative.
If this was true then surely the russians would be shouting this to the rooftops
Yes, I have to agree. The 10 ng/ml was mentioned by the Russians in the CAS report. The applicants (IOC, WADA, ISU) did not challenge it. But since that would so clearly exonerate her, and since the Russians are not screaming about this, something is not right.
The document below lists WADA's Minimum Required Performance Levels (MRPL) for TMZ and other substances. MRPL is defined as the minimal requirement for the lab, but not minimal detectable level. The lab could be more sensitive than the MRPL. The MRPL for TMZ is 10. The same number in the CAS report.
I wonder if the Russians read the MRPL for TMZ and assumed that was the minimum detectable level? If so, we don't know the real minimum detectable level for that lab.
Could someone give the para ref for the MRPL from within the CAS decision please.
I looked through the various Wada docs for detection level of the machines ( not MRLP) and could not find anything.However looking at other stuff is might be 2ng.
If so ,and it is a big if, then the 2.1 could be challenged.Rather disturbingly, I noted that the B sample does not have to give quantification, so there is no way the A sample level can be checked.
Now in a real court how could they get away with that?
Bit like CAS saying Wada should apply the highest standard to itself like they apply to the athletes and NOT withhold evidence.
Bound4Glory wrote: I wonder if the Russians read the MRPL for TMZ and assumed that was the minimum detectable level? If so, we don't know the real minimum detectable level for that lab.
It's the EQUIPMENT, not the lab. You guys know nothing about equipment accuracy and test results data analysis.
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