who will play Mary in the Lifetime movie.
I think it should be Laura Dreyfuss
who will play Mary in the Lifetime movie.
I think it should be Laura Dreyfuss
txRUNNERgirl wrote:
opportunistic pathogen wrote:
I really don't buy this story.
It's complete opposite of what other athletes say about Alberto being like father to them.
Smells fishy here
I've said it once and I'll say it again. It's a red flag for a professional adult athlete to call their coach a father figure.
+1
And there are quite a few emotionally abusive fathers.
NoClue wrote:
The victim blaming that so many posters are engaging in makes me sick to my stomach.
Obviously being lean and at a good racing weight is important - Mary Cain acknowledges that in her comments! But there is an obvious line between staying lean through diet and exercise, and being unhealthy.
To those who say "this is pro running, she shouldn't have gone pro if she couldn't handle it!" are just dead wrong. This is her profession, and was Salazar's profession. IN ANY OTHER WORKPLACE if a supervisor acted how Salazar did towards Cain they would have been fired. Healthy work environments do not involve mental abuse, and pressuring an employee to become physically unhealthy.
Really, as she said there need to be checks and balances in these types of training groups. An independent HR - type person, not just a bunch of sycophants and yes-men surrounding a megalomaniac coach.
So what system are you proposing? Running is not a typical office environment and even though Mary Cain is a Nike runner, she is going to NOP by choice and staying there. I agree, an outside party monitoring a group would be good. What about the law of unintended consequences then? The coach/athlete relationship is not anything like a manager and worker relationship. So what you are proposing is going to be hard to implement.
Her parents should have been the independent observer. They should have been more hands and Mary Cain should have also been more open about what she was going though. Those who cry "victim blaming" are basically saying Cain and her parents have zero accountability and couldn't have stopped things. It is not an all or nothing proposition. This is the real world. Both parties have some culpability and that needs to be talked about. Salazar and Rupp started early and have worked out well. So asserting that AS shouldn't coach any young athletes is a stretch. I think a better vetting process for both parties could have really been helpful. Why not have a trial period for 2-3 months? If it isn't working then at that point you can simply move in other directions. Good for both the coach and athletes. Maybe that needs to become more of a standard practice before people commit into a program that is going to dominate your life.
who will play Mary in the Lifetime movie.
I think it should be Laura Dreyfuss
This is why people don't speak out. She's got nothing to gain. This stuff is painful, she's had time to reflect and I just hope this all brings closure for Mary and that she can move on in whatever the capacity she chooses to.
Leave those kids alone wrote:
Mary Cain? There have been others. Does Caitlin Chick sound familiar?
Caitlin Chock. She moved to Oregon at the same time as Rupp I believe when they were HS athletes. She's been battling eating disorders for years. Not sure she has told her full story but it would be an interesting one.
rcrcb wrote:
This is why people don't speak out. She's got nothing to gain. This stuff is painful, she's had time to reflect and I just hope this all brings closure for Mary and that she can move on in whatever the capacity she chooses to.
they don't speak out because Lifetime might make a movie about it?
Coachy Coach wrote:
This went mainstream so Nike is going to take a hit on this one.
Nike stock up $1.3 billion today!
Ernest wrote:
These days, it's fashionable and easy to dog-pile onto the accused, and doing so can earn you notoriety, acclaim, sympathy, or a pay day.
In this case, trampling the legacy of Salazar and NOP is easy opportunity for some to push questionable agendas, or accusations without close scrutiny - and perhaps motivated due to past, personal differences.
You don't want to be seen as the person who stood up for an accused (or actual) drug-cheat, lest you then be painted with the same tar brush, ruined and ostracised.
This latest, me-too-esque rant is makes for good press, but what's not well assessed here - Cain has significant mental health issues and is not owning that.
She is deflecting - blaming others for failures and problems largely relating to her choices or nature.
Shut up! You know nothing about how hard this situation has been for her. If you’ve been listening, she’s been saying this ever since she quit NOP! She has just finally publicly put them on blast, but if you were listening, you would have known everything that she said she had already revealed, way before this article and Alberto got banned. I’ve been paying attention and nothing she said is new or a surprise.
YATA
Shalane basically just admitted to know and not doing anything on twitter. Can we stop the narrative that she helps and encourage other females?
Ok zoomer
I was giving Salazar some benefit of the doubt in the past, but this latest info did it for me -- he's an abuser and should not be coaching anyone again. I feel sorry that Cain did not have a good support system that could recognize what was going on, and that none of the other older runners there tried to intervene.
Besides abusive running coaches, especially for females, let's also take a close look at figure skating. Another sport where weight is constantly an issue, and female skaters are made to feel like losers unless they can stay ultra light.
And then there's dysfunctional high school football, where many many kids feel like doping/testosterone is just how you play football because it's so rampant. All for what - a concussion that could ruin your life? A trophy for the school? In addition to the doping, players are encouraged to make the "big hits" just like college and pros. It's all abusive and ridiculous.
sour grapes meet Mary Cain.
MikeMach1977 wrote:
So what system are you proposing? Running is not a typical office environment and even though Mary Cain is a Nike runner, she is going to NOP by choice and staying there. I agree, an outside party monitoring a group would be good. What about the law of unintended consequences then? The coach/athlete relationship is not anything like a manager and worker relationship. So what you are proposing is going to be hard to implement.
Her parents should have been the independent observer. They should have been more hands and Mary Cain should have also been more open about what she was going though. Those who cry "victim blaming" are basically saying Cain and her parents have zero accountability and couldn't have stopped things. It is not an all or nothing proposition. This is the real world. Both parties have some culpability and that needs to be talked about. Salazar and Rupp started early and have worked out well. So asserting that AS shouldn't coach any young athletes is a stretch. I think a better vetting process for both parties could have really been helpful. Why not have a trial period for 2-3 months? If it isn't working then at that point you can simply move in other directions. Good for both the coach and athletes. Maybe that needs to become more of a standard practice before people commit into a program that is going to dominate your life.
I'm advocating that a coach (or any supervisor) not encourage behavior that is actively detrimental to the health of an athlete - both physically and emotionally. You are right that pro running is not a typical office environment, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be baselines for the well-being of athletes/employees. Its obvious Salazar's behavior well exceed the baseline that most rational and compassionate people would draw.
I think Cain tried to advocate for herself as she could, but realistically how does a 17 year old stand up to one of the most powerful figures in the sport? It sounds like her parents got her out of the situation as quickly as possible once they knew.
Honestly, coaches on the payroll of powerful sponsoring organizations are the issue. Cain could have taken her complaints to Nike, but given their track record they would likely have just protected Salazar and covered up her claims. This also relates to the NOP doping inquiry and Nike's support/resources. If coaches were independent and paid by athletes (or rather, a coaching budget was included in contracts) and athletes of any sponsor could work with coaches, I think the chances of accountability would be much higher.
(Though given the doping suspension and this statement by Cain, I don't think Salazar should be allowed to coach ever again, not just young people.)
There's only one solution to this problem. Mary needs a new mentor/coach, say David Goggins. Life's not easy so "Stay Hard."
T.M.A.D.D.D.H.A.S.F.N.E.
Clearly, a lot of people can muster the courage to kick a man to shreds once he is down and dead on the ground.
Except that this is not courage.
For anybody who cares about the sport, they should take this very serious. It includes serious issues that include training, coaching, parenting, mental health, maturity and more. It also includes culture in the sport and the problem with “win at all costs”.
The first thing that hits me in all of this is how the parents had no clue or thought they could outsmart a proven system (college running). Or they just let their little mary do what she wants without knowing any better. Probably 99% of the people would have predicted failure with the approach taken. They were right.
The story also includes poor coaching. Easily stated- salazar coached her backwards. He failed to understand the needs of an 18 year old girl and how those affect her running success.
The story includes cultural failure in the sport where weight is a contributing factor to running success but way more complex and varied that how much you weigh alone. Clearly the approach to weight loss was unhealthy and unethical.
This story also makes me think of the perfectionism mentality that is damaging to kids. In mary’s case she experienced too much life successs. Same thing happened to maddy holleran at upenn. Their inability to cope with setbacks, unrealistic expectations, poor mentorship becomes a flat out dangerous situation. Its not their fault.
Absolutey positively anyone who dumbs this issue down to “this is what she signed up for” is displaying not only a lack of intelligence but more severe issues of their own
It is no wonder MC waited so long to speak out. Clearly these trolls on this board have been lucky enough to never encounter an abusive relationship of their own. Sorry - news flash - if you are pushing someone so hard mentally/physically/emotionally that he or she is self-harming and contemplating suicide, you are an abuser. If someone tells you the things you are doing and saying are causing this and you do nothing about it and actually continue to do it, you are an abuser. This is NOT normal, acceptable behavior in any relationship, especially one where there is an imbalance of power, ie - coach/athlete. And no, I wouldn't expect an 18 year old who went straight from high school (a child's world) directly into the most high profile, high pressure training group arguably in the world (an adult world) to know or have the tools to immediately speak out against this and leave right away, if for no other reason than the fact that at that age, there would be enough naivety to believe the person in power (the authority figure) has your best interest at heart and speaking out may cost a life long dream.
factsonwheels wrote:
Clearly, a lot of people can muster the courage to kick a man to shreds once he is down and dead on the ground.
Except that this is not courage.
Says the person hiding behind a fake name.
Let's see how well you'd do in the Times with your real identity for everyone to see.
Salazar had one sacred job with Mary Cain. Don't ruin her. He ruined her.
afdsfasd wrote:
Shalane basically just admitted to know and not doing anything on twitter. Can we stop the narrative that she helps and encourage other females?
False.
Mary Cain said:
I got caught in a system designed by and for men which destroys the bodies of young girls
Alberto isn't representative of all men. Why can't it be about making the sport better for everyone?
