Caster Semenya has just destroyed her lifetime PB, without any rabbits. 1:54.25!!

Unsound reasoning:. wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

Semenya's advantage maybe be unfair in that it comes from a place that the other women can't compete on.

Women can compete against men but shouldn't have to do that, especially in this modern age.

There now is a women's division for real women.

And there's a men's open division, for men and anyone else who isn't a real woman, like Semenya.

But mathematically and statistically it's not an outlier advantage when you look at Bolt and Dibaba.

Based on that, you must feel that 90 percent of all men should be able to compete with the women, because they aren't really any better. In my opinion, your attitude shows that you have very poor judgment, in addition to a dislike for real women, and poor emotional stability.

Well frankly you're just being an idiot. Where are you getting your numbers from?

Semenya has demonstrated a less than 2 percent advantage over the likes of Ajee and Dibaba has demonstrated a 2.2 percent advantage.

That is the reality of it. The fact that Caster looks so masculine makes you FEEL it is much larger disparity than it is. That's an emotional response. Do the maths instead.

Dibaba is doped to the gills and everyone who cares to know knows it. Just like Harvey Weinstein. "Officially" it was ignored, but everyone knew or had their heads in the sand.

Semenya is naturally doped, which is at least more honorable.

ROIDnato CaCERA wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

Well frankly you're just being an idiot. Where are you getting your numbers from?

Semenya has demonstrated a less than 2 percent advantage over the likes of Ajee and Dibaba has demonstrated a 2.2 percent advantage.

That is the reality of it. The fact that Caster looks so masculine makes you FEEL it is much larger disparity than it is. That's an emotional response. Do the maths instead.

Dibaba is doped to the gills and everyone who cares to know knows it. Just like Harvey Weinstein. "Officially" it was ignored, but everyone knew or had their heads in the sand.

Semenya is naturally doped, which is at least more honorable.

Ok that's fine I won't deny anything you've said.

But again I'll reiterate that Latiskene, Perkovic, Bolt, Rudisha, Ayana and Paula have all shown absolutely the same and sometimes much larger advantage over their competitors than Semenya shows over hers.

The complaints are far, far less however in those other cases. In fact, most of those mentioned are applauded for their dominance.

The difference? I'm gonna say it's to do with the emotional response associated with Semenya's appearance. It's not scientific or logical. Semenya gets beaten in the 400, she gets beaten in the 1500, but she dominates in the 800 specifically, just like Rudisha.

Once more her advantage in the 800 may still come from higher testosterone which in my view is unfair. However her dominance in that event is not an outlier mathematically when compared to others dominant in their events. Nobody has any evidence to suggest otherwise.

Repeating the same vague claim makes you sound insecure in your belief.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

I know EPO works -- if you have severe anemia.

?Yes and everyone else

rekrunner wrote:

Repeating the same vague claim makes you sound insecure in your belief.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

?Yes and everyone else

I'm not sure anyone has long enough to reply to that one Mr Concessions

I'm sure you don't.

ex-runner wrote:

Well frankly you're just being an idiot.

I figured that was all you'd have to say, as all your arguments are just dumb.

By the way my IQ is north of 170.

ROIDnato CaCERA wrote:

Semenya is naturally doped, which is at least more honorable.

A known 10 percent advantage is infinitely greater, compared to one that can't even be measured.

So that's total BS.

Please explain why it's honorable for a man, who knows he's a man, to keep competing in women's events.

Just saying well he's not really a man, with no evidence to prove that he isn't, is nonsense.

She is a WOMAN! She has NOT done anything wrong. She is not CHEATING! Leave this amazing woman alone and let her be great.

Yea Right! wrote:

She is a WOMAN! She has NOT done anything wrong. She is not CHEATING! Leave this amazing woman alone and let her be great.

If you're talking about Semenya, no, he is not a woman.

He has failed several tests already, and is only allowed to compete due to politics.

Anyone who's been paying attention should know this.

Why do people get excited when a man runs 1:54?

I honestly don't get it.

The argument always has to come back to one gender. Transgenders will become prevelant in sports so there really should be no categories. Everyone should be judged by their ability instead of by their gender.

Predictor wrote:

Everyone should be judged by their ability instead of by their gender.

What an ignorant and asinine statement.

Women should form their own national and international organizations, and decide among themselves what the testing and gender requirements should be for woman. At first this can be voluntary, and then will be adopted universally.

There is no reason to wait for the men in charge to decide this, as many of them have the same attitude quoted above. In the U.S., less then 25 percent of men feel that a woman would ever be qualified to be President. Men should NOT be deciding these issues for women. I'm a man, but I fully support women in forming their own organizations, and deciding the standards for who is and who is not a real woman.

Joplas wrote:

Why do people get excited when a man runs 1:54?

I honestly don't get it.

I don't either. There is nothing exciting about that.

Unsound reasoning:. wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

Well frankly you're just being an idiot.

I figured that was all you'd have to say, as all your arguments are just dumb.

By the way my IQ is north of 170.

Haha ok, did you get so distracted by your IQ that you forgot to read the rest of my post?

Well frankly you're just being an idiot. Where are you getting your numbers from?

Semenya has demonstrated a 1.2 percent advantage over the likes of Ajee and Dibaba has demonstrated a 2.2 percent advantage over the next fastest today which is Muir.

That is the reality of it. The fact that Caster looks so masculine makes you FEEL it is much larger disparity than it is. That's an emotional response. Do the maths instead.

Latiskene is 3 percent better than her competitors

Bolt is 1.2 percent better in the 100 (whilst celebrating)

Paula is 1.2 percent better

I'd love to see your numbers. Prove how my arguments are 'dumb'.

So it's okay to be a man and compete as a women, as long as I only train or am good enough to make me 1-2% better than women, and not to be as good as elite men. I don't see how this is a good argument. If you want to do "math" then just look at her testerone levels (15 times more than the average female) or testicle count (two more than the average female).

If you're so fond of "percentage-based advantage", than even the IAAF admits

"“This evidence shows clearly that (at least in certain events) DSD athletes with levels of circulating testosterone in the normal male range have a very significant competitive advantage over female athletes with testosterone levels in the normal female range.”

It also uses numbers to back up its case. As it notes: “In particular, increasing testosterone levels in women from 0.9 nmol/L to just 7.3 nmol/L increases muscle mass by 4% and muscle strength by 12-26%; while increasing it to 5, 7, 10 and 19 nmol/L respectively increases circulating haemoglobin by 6.5%, 7.8%, 8.9% and 11% respectively. Taking all available knowledge and data into account, the experts estimate that the ergogenic advantage in having circulating testosterone levels in the normal male range rather than in the normal female range is greater than 9%.”

According to your argument, does this mean that performance enhancing drugs should be completely allowed in sports as long as it only makes opponents a little bit better than their clean counterparts, instead of a whole lot better?　Although I'll give Semenya the benefit of the doubt that he's training as much as her opponents, the thought that posters like you would fully endorse her to not train to her full potential as to not make her "too good" as a basis for whether or not she can compete is a really stupid argument. We already have the numbers on what her testerone advantage is giving her, yet for the sake of your argument you completely ignore it to compare a much more complicated factor which includes much more unknowns like personal training vigor, strategic racing, and saving energy for races, and even the possibility she is sandbagging races to please idiots like you.

Please use the correct words

OFFICIAL LetsRun definitions

transgender

denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex.

intersexuality

: the condition (such as that occurring in congenital adrenal hyperplasia or androgen insensitivity syndrome) of either having both male and female gonadal tissue in one individual or of having the gonads of one sex and external genitalia that is of the other sex or is ambiguous

(Intersexuality, in a variety of forms, occurs in about one of every 2,000 births---11544 athletes took part in the Rio OGs)

transsexual

: a person who psychologically identifies with the opposite sex and may seek to live as a member of this sex especially by undergoing surgery and hormone therapy to obtain the necessary physical appearance (as by changing the external sex organs)

lesbian

: a woman who is sexually attracted to other women : a female homosexual

Definition of male

1 a : a male person : a man or a boy

b : an individual of the sex that is typically capable of producing small, usually motile gametes (such as sperm or spermatozoa) which fertilize the eggs of a female

(2): a plant having stamens but no pistils

Definition of female

1 a (1) : of, relating to, or being the sex that typically has the capacity to bear young or produce eggs

(2) : having or producing only pistils or pistillate flowers

Correct me if I'm wrong, but nowhere has ex-runner argued in favor in favor of Semenya competing unregulated in the women's race, he's simply saying that her advantage on account of her intersex characteristic is on par with the talent/doping advantage that female outliers in other events have possessed. Which on the one hand doesn't really matter, because the fundamental question of fairness in Semenya's case doesn't change whether she runs 1:49 or 1:59. Either way she has a huge advantage over her competitors on account of sex. But he's absolutely right in saying that claiming she could run 1:49 is an emotional response that isn't based on any evidence. The top 800 runner on my college team ran 3:59 in the 1500 and regularly split 50 flat on the 4x4 (also ran low 25s in XC, which I don't think Semenya could do with her body type). Guess what his 800 PR was? 1:53.6. Anyone who's been around male runners at Semenya's level knows that her PRs make perfect sense lined up, and while I think she could get the WR on a perfect day, I have a very hard time seeing her dip under 1:53.