Beth Sullivan making headlines at UT

All Good wrote:

Obviously, in a situation like this all student athletes and staff are encouraged by the University to stay away from the media and other outside sources requesting inside information. All Universities do this when a situation like this occurs.

In the real world that's called intimidation. It is NOT compatible with the mission of a University - which is to educate and encourage social and emotional growth of young adults. ANYONE who doesn't see that does not belong on campus -- anywhere.

malmo wrote:

Has anyone noticed that there are no coaches or athletes that have come out, by name, and stood up in support of this reprehensible person? The UT athletic department won't even do it. They are hoping it will all just go away.

I was thinking about how striking it is that nobody, anonymous or not, has posted on this thread that Sullivan cares about her athletes or is anything other than a selfish, uncaring, fill-in-your-own-word. We've gotten some "defenses" for the current situation -- blaming the students for trusting her or trying to claim that everybody does what she did here -- but nothing in support of her character more generally. At most, a couple of people have tried to say that her ways are effective at winning, which is, frankly, not at all self-evident.

Translated:

I'm a distance runner at UT with little or no knowledge of the sprinters involved in this situation. I would like to continue my training and preparation without the distractions and recruiting impacts of these decisions. I'm not really aware of the cancer BAS will be on our team.

Does anyone like this woman? wrote:te]

I was thinking about how striking it is that nobody, anonymous or not, has posted on this thread that Sullivan cares about her athletes or is anything other than a selfish, uncaring, fill-in-your-own-word.

Striking too the contrast between her and her predecessor, the beloved Harry Groves, who cared about his athletes first, himself last. It wasn't just the studs Harry cared about, it was everyone, including the walk-ons, the students in jogging class, and even those who did not choose Penn State. Pretty much the same psychological profile of every other great coach I've ever known.

If you have a heart, Harry genuinely cared for you. Do you think that Harry cares for BAS, or not? In your heart, you know the answer.

When Harry Groves walks into a room full of other coaches, he's like a magnet, they are drawn to him.

Franquoise wrote:

Positive Contribution wrote:

You all must understand that Sullivan lives in her own world detached from reality.

She was far removed from the world we all occupied when I ran at Penn State that it was comical. We literally had jokes going about how out of touch she was with reality. Her narcissism knows no boundaries.

Like I said earlier the funny thing she should of canned Sam Borchers multiple times and the entire team would have supported it. Yet, she constantly held his hand to the detriment of the team.

And yet you supported her when you were there.

Except I didn't. Couldn't stand her.

malmo wrote:

Alan Scharsu wrote:

Please tell us what school you are attached to so that we can steer our kids away from it. Don't take that personally, because according to you, we will save both our time and energy.

Your silence was deafening while BAS.was at Penn State. Better late to the party then never I suppose.

I can count on one finger the number of alums who spoke out against her. Care to guess which finger?

There was a lot of frustration when she was hired but most came to terms that she was going to be coach and the program would be better off with out alumni constantly complaining.

I would say during her tenure most supported the program and grudgingly put up with Sullivan. Everyone knows most of her success at Penn State was due to her assistants.

Malmo- maybe it's time to end this thread with some harry groves stories. http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php%3Fthread%3D2267960 my favorite all time letsrun thread

javthrowing wrote:

Malmo- maybe it's time to end this thread with some harry groves stories.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php%3Fthread%3D2267960

my favorite all time letsrun thread

Perhaps Stem Stories., A Literary Collection?

If you have time I'd love to hear one or two.

What Happens Behind the Scenes wrote:

The truth of the matter is that the parents out there have no idea what a D1 coaching staff and support staff have to endure during the tenure of an average elite athlete. ...

I can tell you from first hand experience that so many elite athletes show up to campus, locked into a full scholorship, and completely go down hill from there....

...If you are in the SEC or a power 5 conference program, you don't have time to deal with this nonsense. It drains everyone on the team, the staff, and the support staff.

...The truth is that more than likely, a lot of these kids cause more stress than they are worth...not necessarily talking specifically about these 6...just in general.

I'm just catching up on this thread tonight. I can't help but comment on this post, as others already have.

Let me make this perfectly clear: It is YOUR fvcking job as a coach to create a culture of excellence where the athletes and coaching staff want to put in the work to be successful. If that is not happening, it is YOUR fault. You don't think D1 football recruits and their parents have big egos, too? Yet some football programs are very successful at getting everyone to buy into the program and the work that needs to be done. It sounds like you have a toxic environment on your team.

I'm disgusted by the language that you use to describe your experience with this program, like "what a coaching staff has to endure" and "these kids cause more stress than they are worth". I'm serious when I say that you should consider leaving this profession.

I consider myself an optimist, but I've read a lot of negativity about D1 athletics on this thread. There must be some D1 programs out there with great cultures. What track teams have a good reputation for being a place where everyone involved is invested in the success of the team?

I wouldn't want to be a D1 athlete this year, having to travel on airplanes and such..not with the Ebola outbreak and all

It's a relatively new rule. Go read it dumba$$. She cannot offer a freshman money, who has done nothing wrong, in November. It's a fact!

Boomers wrote:

WRONG! It happens every day. There is no tied up money it's a yearly contract. The girls aid isn't free until next year whether or not they are on the team now. The coach has the right to drop the entire team each year if she chooses. It shows our ignorance of the rules.

Bruinboy wrote:

NCAA rules will not allow you to recruit with tied up money. Early signing this year. Needed the money now to make offers.

Yep. I used to run into Coach Groves from time to time at road races and summer all-comer meets when I was a student at Penn State. He was the kind of man who would talk to a 2:04 800m guy (i.e. me) the same way that he'd talk to a 1:46 guy. To him, whether you were trying to win NCAAs or you were trying to break 17 minutes at some local road race, you were respected as a guy who was working hard at something you loved.

This humility and willingness to treat everyone with respect is one of those life lessons that I've really tried to internalize. If a man with Coach's credentials can treat a 2:04 guy with respect, I sure as he'll don't have standing to look down on anyone. And that is the kind of lesson that a great coach can instill. I have only spoken to Coach Groves maybe two dozen times, and I can say that I am a better person for those few chance run-ins.

I'll say it again. She dropped them now so she can use their money now...November signing.

Bruinboy wrote:

It's a relatively new rule. Go read it dumba$$. She cannot offer a freshman money, who has done nothing wrong, in November. It's a fact!

Boomers wrote:

WRONG! It happens every day. There is no tied up money it's a yearly contract. The girls aid isn't free until next year whether or not they are on the team now. The coach has the right to drop the entire team each year if she chooses. It shows our ignorance of the rules.

Calculated move to:

1) Look good to the UT media and fan base by "keeping the recruiting class intact"

2) Keep the athletes off other schools' rosters without having to tie up her own $$$ long term.

Despicable. Despicable. Despicable.

"Remember the September Six!"

It is possible to defend Sullivan as a coach (albeit in my opinion very difficult and usually based on flimsy evidence that has been manipulated to shine her in the best possible lite), but from my experiences it is impossible to defend her as a person. I wish she would try her hand at coaching professionals (where it is a true business or preferably leave the sport all together) and leave the impressionable minds of college-athletes alone. She is not a leader, she not a role model, she is not a mentor, but she is a great BS'er, manipulator, savvy businesswomen, and opportunist. Although I was very happy to see her leave Penn State, I am saddened that she was given the opportunity to hurt more young men and women. Given Sullivan's past record, I am afraid this will be one of the least damaging and most public situations that will occur during her tenure at UT. However, I hope as a result of the attention that this decision has received her actions moving forward are placed under a greater level of scrutiny by the leaders at UT and the public.

Try again. That sentence is terrible.

I assume you're saying she can't take a freshman's aid in November,and she's not. She's not renewing her scholarship next year. She can't go over her 18.5 allotted scholarships in any given year, but all the aid on the team is fair game for next years class. As soon as the contract ends the aid is open. It's only tied up for the contract period, which in the SEC is still yearly. Even if the athlete was removed from the team for good reasons, or drop out of school the aid can't be given to a new athlete until the contract is over, that prevents coaches from pushing athletes out the door or forcing them to quit. She could however redistribute the aid to athletes already on the squad, if she terminated the contract, which she didn't. You can't read any better than you write.

[quote]Bruinboy wrote:

It's a relatively new rule. Go read it dumba$$. She cannot offer a freshman money, who has done nothing wrong, in November. It's a fact!

[quote]Boomers wrote:

What they are trying to say is the return of the early signing period may have played a role here. She wanted to guarantee she had a bunch of scholarship money to offer NOW to students for NEXT year, so kicking these girls off the team without giving them a chance ensured that money was available.

My thoughts as a collegiate coach.

BAS has done nothing different than many, many male dI track coaches. I know of dozens of examples where male head coaches got rid of athletes sometimes in December of their freshman year. The difference is they did it a little bit more tactfully (if there is a tactful way of doing it). But the end result was the same. Everyone on here criticizing BAS would not be doing so in the same venom if the head coach was Pat Henry (as an example). There still exists a strong double standard. I laughed when some posted about their "beloved" Harry Groves. Harry was the very first college coach I met when I got into the DI progression. I was shocked at his attitude. Harry was vile, vulgar, hated women and I heard him on many occasions talking disgustingly about women track athletes and female head coaches. Harry to men was a "mans man" but as a coach he had many shortcomings. He was classically old school. Throughout her career BAS has manipulated the system just like so many men have, so in that regard I find no difference between her and about half of the top 20 men's track programs head coach.

BAS saw exactly what I saw when I went and reviewed video of Morgan Harvey. She is NOT an SEC athlete under any circumstance. Someone said that she was one of the top HS'ers in the country. That doesn't mean they are SEC worthy. Look at what it took last year to be ranked in the top 8 of the short hurdles (13.18) and long hurdles (58.58). Should BAS given Miss Harvey a year - absolutely positively yes but from a technical standpoint the young hurdler is light years behind the top SEC scorers. And BAS just decided to punt her now.

Sad, but real.