Classless act P wrote:
Moronic wrote:Lance doesn't agree with you re doping, and he would know:
"...it's about ALL endurance sports."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lance-armstrong-exclusive-interviewWhat does that have to do with anything.
The anything it has to do with is you saying: "It's ridiculous to try and compare the two.", cycling and running(in the context of this thread), both endurance sports. Idiot.
Wejo,
You are full of crap; and by the disappearing and re-appearing posts tonight my guess is you are drunk, stoned, or scared.
None of your defenses of your behavior towards Rupp get any serious consideration from me UNTIL you acknowledge that your allowing people to call Rupp homophobic names on this website for YEARS, and did not delete such messages when you saw them (unless "2 people or more reported it" in your own words) was wrong, unfair, and bad to the sport.
And then post an open apology to Rupp and his Family.
Otherwise you are just pimping your sad asz on the front page, and making another illustration of what an idiot you are right here.
One question: How many times have you or your brother been in the "mixed zone" and had the chance to ask Rupp a question?
As I said, you never asked a PED question, because you know in your gut he is clean.
Moronic wrote:
The anything it has to do with is you saying: "It's ridiculous to try and compare the two.", cycling and running(in the context of this thread), both endurance sports. Idiot.
We're talking about Lance vs. Rupp. This thread about Rupp was started SOLELY BECAUSE HE RAN FASTER than Patrick White thought he should have.
That I have to point that out to you says far more about the level of idiocy I'm responding to than it does anything else.
post it noter wrote:
wejo wrote:With this thread we are saying it is ok for people to post and discuss whether athlete X or Y is doping. It leads to a cleaner sport.
The point you are missing "A Duck" is that just because you wonder about an improved performance has to mean you conclude it is because of doping. But here is nothing wrong with wondering or having the conversation.
You're just being disingenuous and you know it.
This thread is about DOPING and was created solely because Patrick White couldn't fathom Rupp's long term improvement and the performances of he and Solomon.
That's the ONLY REASON.
Personal insecurity.
Your endorsement of that and then your insinuation that this mud-slinging will somehow "clean up the sport" is flat-out delusional.
You insisting that anyone and everyone should do what YOU want is ridiculous. You treat some people like crap in your interviews. Why would they want to go so far out of their way to satisfy whatever demands you have as far as proving their innocence? It'll NEVER be enough. Ever! Plus the questions posed. Disgusting! Abdi and Rupp both spring to mind last year when you or Rojo or whoever tried one of your asinine "gotcha" moments.
It's sickening, it's horrible form, and it is a disgrace to "journalism".
And that you do that under the pretense of "cleaning up the sport" just shows the lengths that you will go to try and justify your ridiculous behavior.
You SHOULD feel like scumbags because the way you bring it up and the slimy, disgusting behavior you ENCOURAGE on these boards is precisely the work of scumbags.
TOTALLY disingenuous. The thing is, if we were sitting around a pub with 5 knowledgeable runners, having a few beers and Weldon Johnson floated this crap? He'd be shouted down.
Rupp is the most covered American High School phenom EVER. EVERY piece of his progression has been reported.
Okay, IF that wasn't obvious enough (I mean it is all out there on the web...avaialble 24/7) Wheldon and Robert Johnson and Lackey # 3 have written or linked to almost all of it, and certainly all of it in the past 6 years.
So what's the story with the adrenaline vials found in Farah's stuff at the Olympics?
Moronic wrote:
Classless act P wrote:What does that have to do with anything.
The anything it has to do with is you saying: "It's ridiculous to try and compare the two.", cycling and running(in the context of this thread), both endurance sports. Idiot.
You want to talk about who the idiot is?
You.
UCI flip-flopped on Bio Passports.
IAAF did not.
The comparison, you moron, is between UCI and IAAF.
If you had a brain in your head you would get that.
The two sports have nothing to do with each other IN AN INTELLIGENT AND FINAL ANALYSIS, BECAUSE THEY HAVE DIFFERENT GOVERNING BODIES OVERSEEING THE TESTING.
Classless act P wrote:
Moronic wrote:The anything it has to do with is you saying: "It's ridiculous to try and compare the two.", cycling and running(in the context of this thread), both endurance sports. Idiot.
We're talking about Lance vs. Rupp. This thread about Rupp was started SOLELY BECAUSE HE RAN FASTER than Patrick White thought he should have.
That I have to point that out to you says far more about the level of idiocy I'm responding to than it does anything else.
"We're talking about Lance vs. Rupp"
Lance = endurance athlete - Rupp = endurance athlete.
Get it?, idiot.
Seriously?
This thread is not about people accusing you Wheldon, that is your old defense and is disingenuous.
Now, if Salazar had started a website where he let people call you a "Fa_got" for 6 years, and personally attack and trash you -- and create a sub culture of hate on the web on one website...
Then you can float that defense.
wejo wrote:
@"post it noter" People discussed on letsrun.com whether I was doping myself because of my own improvement. It comes with the territory. I considered it the ultimate compliment to my improvement.
I don't think it harmed the sport at all. It caused me to want to push for even more stringent testing to show what can be done by clean athletes.
And you think that's acceptable? You think that's okay?
Well that goes a long ways in dissecting your dysfunctional outlook on sport.
But you saying that's a compliment? Yeah. Had you continued to improve you would actually welcome such behavior throughout your career? Baseless accusations slung your way PURELY because you got faster? You don't think that would have an impact on your view of the sport or your running or your own enjoyment of it?
Look how jaded you are now!
And how do you think any potential sponsors would feel knowing that EVERY SINGLE ONE of your performances is cast under a shadow of doping for NO OTHER REASON than someone else couldn't do it so have simply decided you couldn't either?
You guys go on and on about t&f being on the fringe and not taken seriously and sponsors not paying out but why the hell would they when YOU GUYS go out of your way to drag down any and every performance you can find?
What brand wants to be continually associated with that? It's absurd!
Moronic wrote:
"We're talking about Lance vs. Rupp"
Lance = endurance athlete - Rupp = endurance athlete.
Get it?, idiot.
Lance comes back from cancer and wins 7 TdFs at a time when people are coming out of the woodwork describing the drug issue in cycling (Festina & Voet, etc).
Rupp runs a time that he essentially ran last year.
I mean, at this point I don't know if I can make this any clearer to you. I fear a color picture might be necessary to get this through you obviously stunted ability to think critically.
Wheldon get a clue:
Makhloufi vis a vis Manzano has been discussed on this board...for like 30 minutes.
What there isn't here, is an 8 year history of every detail of Makhloufi's career, and your allowing thousands of anonymos posts attacking Rupp as "g_y," attacking his looks, and people posting whole baked slanderous lies about him.
Is A Duck Salazar or something? He is so fervent that he has to be either well connected or an insane fan.
Wheldon,
One at a time: I dare you to answer 100% honestly.
>1. You allowed immature and hateful people to personally attack Rupp as "g_y" because of his first name. You let it go on for years. You both even posted on the same threads without deleting those kinds of personal attacks on the guy. You allowed it to happen when he was technically a child in high school. At that time you also let people accuse him of being on PEDS. You allowed a hate crime type culture of hate to foster here. You did nothing to stop it for years.
Why?
Why no Zero Tolerance towards hate crime level personal attacks on this kid for years?
Why?
^That space above is for your 100% Honest Answer
The space below is for your Personal Apology To Galen Rupp And his Family
@"post it noter" People discussed on letsrun.com whether I was doping myself because of my own improvement. It comes with the territory. I considered it the ultimate compliment to my improvement.
I don't think it harmed the sport at all. It caused me to want to push for even more stringent testing to show what can be done by clean athletes.
So @"post it noter" and @"A Duck" and @"Track Coach" what is the magic formula for when letsrun.com can allow discussions on doping. @"Track Coach" says it's ok to allow it for Makhloufi, but apparently we're crazy if we allow it for Solomon or Rupp.
@"Track Coach" wrote "Solomon is not like a Taoufik Makhloufi who never placed in a major competition and then wins the Olympic gold medal."
For the record, Makhloufi did run 3:32.94 in Monaco in 2010 according to all-athletics. I'm sure many people in Algeria have perfectly good explanations for his improvement.
What about Manzano? Can we allow the discussion for him? Because if Makhloufi is cheating then that would make Manzano the gold medalist. Would he be on limits or off limits?
I guess some magic birdy is supposed to tell us when it is OK?
Or is it we're only not supposed to allow it for athletes we like and "know" are clean ie the Americans?
The point is one I like to reiterate. Paula Radcliffe said at the end of the day you ultimately only know about one athlete being clean or dirty, yourself.
"No generation was exempt or ´clean´." (Lance Armstrong)
Of course it´s impossible to say who is a doper and who is not without a clear test result. We should keep in mind that improvement is the character of sport (though there are limits).
Research scientists say again and again that after a hard workout recovery time is about 24 hours minimum, up to 36 hours average. Contrariwise physiologists still have to work hard to understand the human body.
Look at the workouts of many elites and where they like to train. What the hell is going on? These guys have to accept being asked questions.
Your position on "Andre Dawson" like posts lacks any credibility. It is anonymous lies, and should be deleted. Your explanation / defense is that of a immature child. This is NOT an NFL Forum. (Most of those have been totally if not WAY cleaned up, anyway).Track and Field is a far smaller community. You have a greater responsibility. OR, you are an insult to the sport. WHY?Because if you want to really have any credibility and do any critical thinking, you would take the time stay focused on the athletes performances AND ALL THE PUBLIC DATA ABOUT THEIR TRAINING. IN the case of Rupp you know he is clean. And your excuse for NOT asking him a PEDS question????Lame, disingenuous, and I believe you are lying to cover your real motives.
wejo wrote:
Well this thread shows how you can't make everyone happy. Poster "A Duck" is crucifying us for being unfair to Galen Rupp and his team yet poster "Andrew Dawson" says we have specific information about Mo Farah and are not doing anything with it.
I can assure you "Andre Dawson's" allegations are false. If anyone has any information on any doping matters you can email me confidentially at
weldonjohnson@letsrun.comNow I guess "A Duck" would say "Andrew Dawson's" post is libelous but we have explained our position on why we let such posts exists.
Now onto some of "A Duck's" arguments:
A Duck wrote:...There is a reason exactly Zero Elite runners will be interviewed here.
...There is a reason exactly Zero Elite USA coaches will be interviewed here.
There is a reason almost every university and high school coach has a policy BANNING their teams from frequenting this website.
The Lojo's can revel in bad faith, bad behavior, and delusion all they want -- the entire nation of organized runners CAN'T be wrong.
This site has exactly ZERO credibility.
"A Duck" I guess you live in your own version of reality.
I'm trying to think if we've ever had an athlete refuse an interview and can't think of an instance.
Then instead of claiming you ask the questions credentialed media don't ask, the next time you are in front of Rupp or whomever you suspect, in the mixed zone, ask the questions like men.
You won't because you are little cowards on the internet, and not credible journalists.
I guess you don't get it.
I did ask Carmelita Jeter about her association with Mark Block at the Olympics. And I had some of the most prominent journalists in the Olympic movement come up and congratulate me on the question.
Everytime I see Galen Rupp I'm not going to ask him about doping. Why would I do that? All I'm doing with this thread is saying it is ok for people to discuss whether they believe athlete X or Y is doping.
I do think someone should do an article on thyroid medication and its possible potential for abuse by athletes in light of Jos Hermen's comments at the Olympics. (Jos Hermens said to Dutch journalist Marco Knippen who translated the quotes into English and emailed them to me, "Science has triumphed over nature. Formally Farah and Rupp are doing nothing illegal. I rather just questioning if Farah during a doping control hands a laundry list of products specified, for which he apparently has a certificate." and "Within the environment knows almost everyone that it is used. Thyroid hormone affects all. I do not understand why it is not on the banned list.") Maybe I'll be the person who does that article. I do think athletes should be asked why they won't make their TUEs public and Marco did ask Galen about his TUEs at the Olympics and reported to me that Galen said, "About my
personal medical record I do not talk." Does that mean Galen is doping? No.
Do I think athletes should reveal their TUEs for medically non-sensitive conditions? Yes.
With this thread we are saying it is ok for people to post and discuss whether athlete X or Y is doping. It leads to a cleaner sport.
People can ask the same questions about Paula Radcliffe who I consider a personal friend.
In these threads people point things out that lead to journalists asking questions. I had no idea Felix Sanchez and Duane Solomon train in the same group. Someone pointed that out and that is worth looking into and asking a question about. Does it mean they are doping? No. Is it worth looking into? Yes. Will it cause Duane hopefully to push for an even cleaner sport? I hope so.
While you think threads like this are slandering your Ducks I think you have it wrong. It lets information be discussed both pro and con whether someone might be doping. In the thyroid thread, I pointed out that Paula Radcliffe and Ryan Hall have indicated they are on thyroid medication as well.
People in threads on this subject often point to the paper Alberto Salazar gave at Duke in 1999 where he said, "I believe that it is currently difficult to be among the top 5 in the world in any of the distance events without using EPO or Human Growth Hormone" and then point out he now has two athletes 1-2 and the world trying to make some sort of connection to doping.
http://law.duke.edu/sites/default/files/migrated_files/dl_file-sportscenter-salazar_4.pdfAt the Olympics after the 10k, Alberto said to me and others, "Another big problem I believe was there's too many people who use the excuse of drugs, that anyone who runs fast is on drugs. The second you start thinking that as a coach or as an athlete you're basically saying you're not good enough to compete with other people unless you cheat. What I've always told our guys is 'Don't believe all that bull. Those are the losers that say that.' Rather than trying to change their own training to get better they use that as excuse and it's a defeatist attitude. A lot of the mind-set for us was 'We can beat these guys. We've just got to train smart."
http://www.letsrun.com/2012/farah-rupp-0804.phpI asked him at the Olympics about the disconnect between what he said after the 10k and what he said at Duke in 1999. And he had a very good point. He noted that WADA did not exist when he spoke at Duke. Anti-doping was in a complete different era. Now anti-doping is much stronger so his views had changed.
The point being threads like this are a discussion and aren't out to slander athletes. They let people be more informed on the issue.
I think Bill Simmons of ESPN/Grantland said it best in today's QOD: "I believe we need to fix this disconnect between our private conversations and our public ones. Cheating in professional sports is an epidemic. Wondering about the reasons behind a dramatically improved performance, or a dramatically fast recovery time, shouldn't be considered off-limits for media members. We shouldn't feel like scumbags bringing this stuff up. It's part of sports."
So if it's ok for journalists to ask questions then it's ok for fans to discuss the issue as well.
The point you are missing "A Duck" is that just because you wonder about an improved performance has to mean you conclude it is because of doping. But there is nothing wrong with wondering or having the conversation.
ADUck- It's funny, you manage to write in a manner where you alienate people who try to agree with you on some points. Try less words.
Some people do not like Rupp - I am not sure why. But you can't pin all of that on the Brojos. I would say that it went on for too long on this site without editing. And it is the case that Letsrun took time to edit out other topics. That said, if Salazar can talk to them, I think we can move forward..
The broader point is that the doping assertions should not be made so casually. There is no value in that. We need thoughtful discussion, not name calling.
You can state you can't remember the last time an elite refused you an interview -- but let's look at the facts.
From memory, the last time you had a decent dedicated real interview with an athlete, it was Shadrick Kiptoo-Biwott. 4 years ago.
Getting to ask a question or two in the mixed zone when an athlete may not know who you are...is not an interview in this context.
You NEVER have regular interviews with elites the way EVERY OTHER LEGIT TRACK AND RUNNING NEWS OUTLET DOES.
So you can say you can't remember the last time an elite refused you an interview -- and it MEANS NOTHING.
1.) Because you never really have such interviews.
2.) You don't remember being refused, BECAUSE YOU STOPPED ASKING, because they all AVOID YOU LIKE THE PLAGUE.
3. I have actually seen you post a video "interview" from the mixed zone where an athlete is answering questions to the journalists around you...things thin out a little and you or your brother asks the athlete a question THE ATHLETE ANSWERED, LOOKED DOWN, READ YOUR CREDENTIAL, SAW WHERE YOU WERE FROM and split, LOL. In Your Face, Wheldon. Shut down.
Over the last 5 years I have read NUMEROUS athletes refer to this place as a "must avoid" on their blogs. OF course they use the generic "internet message boards," but EVERYONE knows it is you they are talking about.
I laughed my asz off when you guys posted that mixed zone clip of your own, and the athlete looked down, red your badge and then split. Hahaha. FU buddy was the message.
Now, what is important about that -- is it shows what a low member of the track and running community you really are.
Lauren Fleshman stated recently how elites AVOID this website.
Read this essay:
http://www.propellermag.com/Summer2012/Heald1Summer12.html
See how you are depicted? THAT'S YOUR REP.
"Onto my arguments?"
You don't answer arguments, as I have stated you reply with straw man argument bs, and mis-direction.
Let me make this beyond obvious for you (and really the fact that you can't, won't or don't answer these things directly just makes you look stupid).
"asking Carmelita Jeter about her association with Mark Block at the Olympics." Is a gimme.
Mark Block has a ten year ban.
She's been seen with Mark Block.
The question should be "Carmelita have you ever used Performance Enhancing Drugs?"
Now, was that clear?
PS, my version of reality is damned straight different than yours.
It's logical and evidence based.
I've paid attention over the years. You guys, as former runners, could have had a really great site, and done so much service and good for running and track. The access you could have had.
Instead you run this delusion that you are helping the sport by providing an anonymous hole, encouraging insecure and juvenile noodnicks like yourself to trash athletes.
As I've said before, because of the environment you've created, just about every athlete gets accused by some poster over time.
What you don't do...if you really wanted to be vigilante journalist, is do the work of the real journalists who first accused Lance Armstrong.
Wheldon:
"Everytime I see Galen Rupp I'm not going to ask him about doping. Why would I do that? All I'm doing with this thread is saying it is ok for people to discuss whether they believe athlete X or Y is doping."
CONTEXT is everything.
1. Neither you nor your brother has ever asked Rupp or Salazar ONCE.
2. You claim to be "asking the questions that credentialed journalists don't ask."
I proved you are lying with that claim.
This is what I mean about your BS or misdirection. Did I SAY you should ask Rupp EVERYTIME you see him. No, what I said is YOU NEVER ask him.
And, when you jump on a thread fueling this crp and support others to slander and post false accusations ("now this is the kind of post I don't like*") you have a higher responsibility.
You like others "speculating and asking questions," then nut up and have the balls to ask Rupp yourself, AT LEAST ONCE.
It blows my mind that all your little coward fan boys let that one slip. You got access, ask the question, big guy.
You don't, because you and I both know that you have seen Rupp so many times since he was a teenager, that you know he is clean. He pasts the sniff test totally, and you know it.