The Official D3 XC Thread 2012

condense the nonsense wrote:

Yeah it really makes a difference as to how you peak at nationals???????

If you're a bubble team you still have to run your best race of the year at regionals???

In the past, if you're the 8th best team in the Midwest, you would have to peak for Regionals. Now you can relax a little bit.

Ho Hum wrote:

condense the nonsense wrote:

Yeah it really makes a difference as to how you peak at nationals???????

If you're a bubble team you still have to run your best race of the year at regionals???

In the past, if you're the 8th best team in the Midwest, you would have to peak for Regionals. Now you can relax a little bit.

If you are peaking at regionals you are most likely still peaking at nationals. They are only one week apart.

It has to be approved by the actual NCAA, the coaches-body was the group that approved it. Definitely not being implemented for this season.

It's funny that you say definitely not because... when what follows your because actually has been done by the NCAA.

that's funny wrote:

It's funny that you say definitely not because... when what follows your because actually has been done by the NCAA.

SPEAK ENGLISH. "when what follows your because actually"... really? that's just a random stream of words

I think he was trying to say that the NCAA has approved the motion to remove the cap for this upcoming championships.

TheShepard wrote:

I think getting rid of the 5 team cap makes a lot of sense, but personally I would also like to get rid of the 2 team minimum per region, maybe make it 1 team. Also, if they go based on the national rankings I think their system needs an overhaul. If you ran nationals tomorrow those rankings would be way off. That said, after the conference and regional meets I guess the rankings become much more accurate.

What makes more sense is to kick state funded schools out of D3 and that would fix most of the imbalance issues. The UW schools and SUNY schools do not belong in D3.

Yeah let's make D3 less competitive.

Explain that statement, if you would. Preferably in a way that makes sense, although that might be impossible.

Ho Hum wrote:

Yeah let's make D3 less competitive.

No lets make it what it was supposed to be for small schools.

I personally do not believe schools such as UW Lacrosse, Eau Claire, Oskosh ect whose instate tuition is subsidized with public funds and whose facilities are built with public funds and who have student populations 5-10X that of the average D3 school belong in D3.

This always comes up and I have always found it a really unconvincing argument. There is no way a school like SUNY Fredonia has an advantage over Williams or Amherst who can get anyone they want and have a tremendous endowment, superior academics, and pay their coaches better. Currently, 7/10 top ranked Men's teams and 9/10 top ranked Women's teams are private colleges.

UW schools dominate their region not because they have these inherent advantages, but rather because there are not really many private schools in Wisconsin, not relative to the Northeast at least.

I think the size argument is much more legitimate in the case of a large university. Gotta figure John's Hopkins or Washington (Mo.) have 3 times more undergraduates than Haverford.

D3 Truther wrote:

Ho Hum wrote:

Yeah let\'s make D3 less competitive.

No lets make it what it was supposed to be for small schools.

I personally do not believe schools such as UW Lacrosse, Eau Claire, Oskosh ect whose instate tuition is subsidized with public funds and whose facilities are built with public funds and who have student populations 5-10X that of the average D3 school belong in D3.

You do realize Division I, II, or III has nothing to do with school size right. It is about scholarships and philosophy.They are schools where athletics = extracurricular, not revenue.

The schools that have been top four at the NCAA Championships over the last 10 years: NCC, Haverford, WashU- 7,000, SUNY Geneseo- 4,900, St. Lawrence, UWP-7,500 Williams, Allegheny, NYU (Private)- 19,000, SUNY Cortland-7,200, UWSP- 9,500, Calvin- 4,000, UWL-9,000, UWO- 12,200, NWU- 1,600.

Big State Schools have only snagged 3 Champs (NYU the biggest won in 2007). I think the small schools are doing ok.

I think the small schools are doing ok.

Correction: The small "nationally prestigious schools" are doing ok. The D3 national scene is all about belonging to one of two cohorts (of which the vast majority of the 500+ D3 schools actually do NOT belong):

1). private, prestigious, academically elite institutions with large endowments and 2). state-supported and oftentimes large institutions at a low cost. Both have quality and depth on their XC/T&F teams that the schools that don't fit this criteria rarely see. Both typically have large coaching staffs, well supported budgets, and facilities that make the rest of us shake our heads.

In D3 XC/T&F there is actually little representation from the schools no one has heard of outside the 100 mile radius of said school.

This is from the 2012 Pre Championship manual. There is a cap of 5 for at least this year. Let the complaining begin.Teams (32 per gender) will be selected in the following manner:● 16 teams will automatically qualify (two per region);● 16 at-large teams will be selected by the committee to be determined using the criteria listed below;● Only the top five teams in each regional will be considered; and● Regional performance/place is the primary piece of the criteria, as a team cannot be selected to the championships over a team it finished behind at its respective regional.

Clam Evans wrote:

According to this

http://www.ustfccca.org/division-iii/division-iii-proposals

the cap has been removed. Unless I'm reading it wrong

I don't know where you're pulling your facts but NCC is 3000 and Haverford is 2000- both proving that it really doesn't matter about size at all

Of course school size doesn't matter. It's not high school, where you pool random kids together and hope for some talent. D3 recruit 5-10 kids a year and train them up. What's it matter if there's 15000 other kids besides? Do you know what the odds against a random person running a sub-16 5k are? Hint: check out the results of any major race in your area.

Look at your team and ask yourselves how many guys on the top 7 just showed up without being recruited.

D3 Truther wrote:

What makes more sense is to kick state funded schools out of D3 and that would fix most of the imbalance issues. The UW schools and SUNY schools do not belong in D3.

Cortland is the biggest D3 SUNY school with 7000 students. The bigger ones (Albany, Binghamton, Stony Brook, Buffalo) are D1. Do you think 7000 is too big for D3? Have you ever looked at how many kids NYU has? Just because those conferences have a history of success doesn't mean they shouldn't be D3...

The real story about the best wrote:

I think the small schools are doing ok.

Correction: The small "nationally prestigious schools" are doing ok. The D3 national scene is all about belonging to one of two cohorts (of which the vast majority of the 500+ D3 schools actually do NOT belong):

1). private, prestigious, academically elite institutions with large endowments and 2). state-supported and oftentimes large institutions at a low cost. Both have quality and depth on their XC/T&F teams that the schools that don't fit this criteria rarely see. Both typically have large coaching staffs, well supported budgets, and facilities that make the rest of us shake our heads.

In D3 XC/T&F there is actually little representation from the schools no one has heard of outside the 100 mile radius of said school.

Yeah check out any of the SUNY school facilities, I'm sure you'll be blown away by how amazing they are. Geneseo's locker room looks something look this:

The real story about the best wrote:

staffs

stalves*