50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Desert Rat wrote:

Thanks for the article posting lucKY2b!! Humm Lower back... maybe 90% of the time is due to tight calves and hammys, get 'em stretched real nice and easy before and after.

Thanks, Desert Rat. Hammies sound right. I'm working on it. That was the other area that has been tight since the lay-off.

Also, I don't have personal experience with NY marathon, but my good friend did run it. I concur with what Bushman said, but my friend's main comment about NY was to be prepared to wait around A LOT at the start area before the gun goes off. Even if you are in an early wave. You can expect to be hanging out for 2 hours or so out on Staten Island waiting to go. When he ran it, it was a pretty chilly start, so he had plenty of throwaway coverage, which he charitably gave to a poor soul that had come to the start under-prepared.

Bushman and others on shoes and marathons:

I have never done NYC and have always been somewhat of a minimalist before it was a fad. EVen pre-surgery I was using racing shoes as my main training shoes. I always thought I was doing something wrong when I enjoyed wearing racing shoes in training back all those years ago. However, I bought some "maximalistic" shoes right before my hip surgery in July thinking cushioning might be a good thing once I got back to running again. I really enjoy the Hoka One One Biondi shoes so far as I am getting limited miles in. They are lightweight and give a good stable ride. It will be fun to see how they work out once I can run more and can go farther and hopefully get back into marathons.

My Sunday morning run = 20min jog (the long way to EHS track, an old asphalt thing), 4 strides, 3x1000m starting every 5min, 10min jog. The 1000s started casually, 3:37, then a surprisingly good feeling 3:29, then a somewhat hard feeling 3:23. These are initial steps towards running faster at Bazan Bay 5k (March) than I did last year (17:23). I felt so good this morning (rest day yesterday, just one short run on Friday) that I'll run again late this afternoon, but only one run tomorrow. This afternoon's run will make it another 10-session week...I keep aiming for 11 sessions, but life gets in the way. :)

A good, but non-typical, 45 mile week with a 5k XC race yesterday. Monday I was still back East for a family event, and got a run in before heading for the airport. Tuesday I ran my current regular hard workout, 16x :30hard/:30 moderate up a hill that gains 800ft in 2 miles of road. Wednesday I woke up with a minor sore throat and feeling exhausted, but struggled out for a very slow 4 mile recovery run. Thursday and Friday were a little better. Warm up for yesterday's race felt OK, but not great. I decided to be conservative going out in the race, and I felt somewhat sluggish the first mile. About the end of mile 2 I felt pretty good and I tried to pick it up and push pretty hard the last mile. I ended up at 20:04, good enough to win the 60+ age group, and the exact same time I ran on another 5k XC course two weeks ago when I felt much better in the race. Every race is a surprise at this age.

Kiryea wrote:

Admittedly the 4:30 results are rare, but the 4:40s are routine among the top few finishers in the annual meet. It's not unusual to have the top 10 in the 50-60 age groups run sub 5:00.

I do aplogise for weak googling skills; would you or one of you be kind enought to link me to usa masters (or even world masters, is it still called wava?) sites that list who did what in the mile this year, ages 50+. That;s just astounding what goes on at your annual meet; top 10 under 5 minutes in the 50-60 agre group,, wow. I clearly live in the boonies;0

I'm not sure why anyone would want to help you after your earlier "olde fartes" wisecracks, but if you email me I'll direct you to that information.

ThomY wrote:

I do aplogise for weak googling skills; would you or one of you be kind enought to link me to usa masters (or even world masters, is it still called wava?) sites that list who did what in the mile this year, ages 50+. That;s just astounding what goes on at your annual meet; top 10 under 5 minutes in the 50-60 agre group,, wow. I clearly live in the boonies;0

Also Charlie, thanks but can't the link be p[laced here?

I had no idea that there were so many sub 5 minute milers in the 50-60+ age groups, -as someone else stated.

Great thread everyone; keep it going.

ThomY wrote:

Also Charlie, thanks but can't the link be p[laced here?

I had no idea that there were so many sub 5 minute milers in the 50-60+ age groups, -as someone else stated.

Great thread everyone; keep it going.

I think this will make most sense:

It is current WMA (used to be called WAVA, got changed recently) 1500m rankings to end August 2011. Maybe I'll find 1 Mile for USA soon, but, whoever said that the 50-60+ age groupers are 10 deep in their annual meet is surely exaggerating. I know things don't always get sent to WMA but come on...4:40 equivalent for sub 5min Mile? Look at these lists!

Charlie S wrote:

I'm not sure why anyone would want to help you after your earlier "olde fartes" wisecracks, but if you email me I'll direct you to that information.

ThomY wrote:

I do aplogise for weak googling skills; would you or one of you be kind enought to link me to usa masters (or even world masters, is it still called wava?) sites that list who did what in the mile this year, ages 50+. That;s just astounding what goes on at your annual meet; top 10 under 5 minutes in the 50-60 agre group,, wow. I clearly live in the boonies;0

Here is USA 1 Mile.

MILE RUN&sort=Asc&sex=Men&pseason=Outdoor&cyear=2011

It would appear that all the sub 5min milers, 50+ (60+??!!) at someone's annual meet are not getting reported. ;)

I'm 52. Having started running at age 14 (2:50 marathon), I ran far too many miles in College (80-100/week) and rarely taking a day off or recovery runs. My best times were at the ages between 30-38. Took it less seriously until age 45, when I broke my back, ankle, ribs, ruptured spleen in a cycling vs. car crash (driver fled.) Took me years to recover. Started running again in January, dropped 40 lbs. and now average 40-50 mpw. I don't run on trails (Portland) because I have balance issues and I fall at least once a week. Couple months ago I ran a Half Marathon in 2 hours (50 minutes slower than my PR) and was extremely depressed. I put in the same effort running as in the past, but I a considerably slower. I realize that I am lucky to run at all, let alone being alive, but it is hard to take. I need to accept what is and not dwell on the past. It's tough.

I think I waited something like 3 or 4 hours at the start of my ill-fated NYC attempt in 2009. It was a long, long time.

4:30 and 4:40 miles are not dime a dozen for 50+ runners in the US, and while 1500s at those times are more common they are not all that frequent. Look at US Masters Championships, Hartshorne Mile, and some of the bigger masters meets in the Northeast and West Coast for the most frequent fast 1500/mile times.

Anyway, seems like this thread is taking a turn in character lately. Some of the very fast but laid-back mainstays have been laying low lately. lucky2b, thanks for keeping this rolling.

I seem to have done something to my PF from the trail race the other week and it bothered me all week so training was sporadic, but I managed 45 to 50 minutes a day. Also incredibly busy with helping out at two high school meets and putting on a little xc race of my own.

Highlight of the week was traveling down south to the biggest meet (all year) in the state on Saturday, where the boys team ran against 20 teams and won. My son ran a PR 16:41, and the younger one (youngest on the team) placed 12th in the JV race with 18:22.

Would the real Charlie S please stand up!

M50 1 Mile Run

================================================================

    Name                     Age Team                    Finals 

================================================================

  1   284 Craig Fram         M50 Whirlaway Ra,Plaist    4:44.44  

  2   113 Casey Carlstrom    M50 Unattached,Ithaca,     4:45.24  

  3   882 John Tuttle        M50 Atlanta Trac,Villa,    4:46.24  

  4   679 Brian Pilcher      M52 Tamalpa Runn,Ross,     4:47.50  

  5   949 Blake Wood         M50 Unattached,Los Alam    4:51.01  

  6   133 Stephen Chantry    M54 Colonial Roa,Willia    4:52.12  

  7   539 Mark Malander      M51 Potomac Vall,Oak Hi    4:52.15  

  8   233 Rob Duncanson      M53 KM3D Athleti,Trabuc    4:57.52  

  9   109 Stuart Calderwood  M51 Nike Central,New Yo    5:06.63  

 10     8 Mac Allen          M51 D.C. Capitol,Austin    5:07.46  

 11   705 Gary Radford       M52 Genesee  Val,Cicero    5:13.63  

 12   197 Angelo DeCollibus  M51 Team Runners,Orange    5:16.38  

 13   147 Mark Cleary        M50 So Cal Track,Rancho    5:20.77  

 14   190 Curtis Davis       M51 Unattached,Gaithers    5:25.96  

 15   590 Thomas Moran       M51 Unattached,Louisvil    5:35.03  

 16   477 Douglas Labar      M54 Nike Central,New Yo    5:37.11  

 17   188 Jim Darr           M54 Potomac Vall,Falls     5:58.43  

 18   154 John Comiskey      M52 Greater Phil,Pottst    6:05.31  

 19    63 Peter Blank        M54 Potomac Vall,Annand    6:18.62  

 20    80 Eric Braschwitz    M52 Southeastern,Cary,     7:41.26  

M55 1 Mile Run

================================================================

    Name                     Age Team                    Finals 

================================================================

  1   790 Nolan Shaheed      M59 So Cal Track,Pasade    4:49.03  

  2   733 James Robinson     M55 Genesee  Val,Roches    4:59.17  

  3   567 Kevin McMahon      M55 Green Mounta,Essex     5:01.68  

  4    99 Joseph Burno       M55 Unattached,Mitchell    5:02.70  

  5   871 Sam Torres         M56 Unattached,Toledo,     5:06.06  

  6   354 Thomas Hartshorne  M55 The Finger L,Ithaca    5:12.89  

  7   663 Paul Pearson       M57 Unattached,El Paso,    5:15.72  

  8   241 Dan Eddy           M57 Unattached,Alexandr    5:19.69  

  9   908 Jeffrey Weatherhea M58 Unattached,Granby,     5:31.32  

 10   596 Frank Morton       M55 Nike Central,Bronx,    5:39.04  

 11    75 Robert Bowser      M55 Unattached,Warwick,    5:47.34  

 12   747 Spider Rossiter    M57 Unattached,Washingt    5:48.71  

 13     6 *Mark Albouy       M56 Bermuda,Devonshire     5:51.03  

 14   943 Jay Wind           M59 Potomac Vall,Arling    5:54.13  

 15   741 Henry Rono         M57 Unattached,Albuquer    7:11.84  

AK; Huge "HIFIVE" on your team X-C victory. Passing the baton of guts and glory to todays youth is a wonderful accomplishment.

Desert Rat; The wait is indeed long and can be cold. Head for Goodwill, score some active wear that won't be missed, and bundle up for the Staten Island campout. The tossed clothes end usually end up on the back of someone less fortunate.

Just a thought on lodging. The Upper West side of Manhattan has a host of hotels within walking distance of the finish.

If you're without a support crew , a simple walk back to a warm shower and cozy bed may a worthy option.

The week passed found me covering 229 miles the road bike and running once for 45 minutes.

Take a moment of silence and humbly salute all those who lost so much 10 years ago today.

3 longish runs on the trails, 2 reasonable mtn bike rides and 2 kyak sessions. Rested up on sunday with a bit of ITB like stiffness in the left knee area. It's been lingering about for 5-6 weeks.

Out in the kyak after work today. Rested up another day but will go out for a decent run tomorrow (tuesday).

Thanks for the link to the Running Times article lucKY2b. Listening to our bodies and avoiding injury are easier said than done. Apparently I’m not a good listener. Just like you I injured my knee. The cause for me was predictable: I bumped my miles up, got greedy and “went for it”. In March I hit 60 miles, the most ever (as a master). I tweaked it in an early April race and the famous MKoP (moving knot of pain) has had fun with my knee ever since.

But OOOHHH no, I still didn’t listen. I had a goal of hitting 5:30 for a mile this summer. I figured surely I could reduce my miles and just do more speedwork to get it. So I put the blinder’s on, did my quarters and made my goal in August. Big woop. First of all, it’s not all that fast, and secondly, it came with a cost that was greater than the achievement. I set myself back months of training and now I’m finally and very slowly getting better. I’m listening now!

And I saw some discussion and posting of mile times above. One frustration I’ve noticed is simply finding accurate and up to date records for masters is difficult. For instance, in the above quote, I know for a fact it is almost 2 years old since I know those guys. What is confusing is you can go back and dig out lots of good mile times, but they seldom occur in the same season. So, in my humble opinion,50+ ers going sub 4:45 in the mile is still quite rare in the states.

Rtype wrote:

Listening to our bodies and avoiding injury are easier said than done. Apparently I’m not a good listener.

I know that I hadn't been a good listener in the past either (I don't think my knee thing was from not listening; it was a fluke injury, not from something chronic. The hip issue that I posted a lot about last fall and into the spring definitely was my bad.) One thing to be careful of, and this message goes especially to Skuj, is not to get too euphoric about good workouts. You really need to trust the training plan and know how much you can expect to improve as your fitness improves. Then know to back off periodically. If you overdo it, which is easy to do when you're feeling good, you set yourself up for a crash. There is a lot of training road-kill on these boards. I'm thankful I didn't crash too hard, but I was definitely on a roll last summer, running 35:51 (10k), 17:09 (5k), and 4:40 (1500), which were all massive masters PR's for me. My exhuberance had me keeping my training pedal to the metal in the quest for more speed; I lost focus of my long-range plan, and I've been paying for it ever since.

How I've handled the knee thing, on the otherhand, has been a lot more sensible. It's now feeling about 95%, I'm happy to say.

Thanks man, reading this loud and clear!! The 2000s were a problematic decade for me in terms of injury and issues with tissues, and I think (??) I have learned a thing or two, but yeah...at high times like this, it's good to be grounded/reminded.

This blog is getting to be like Romper Room. Come On People 50+ and acting like children. It's too bad, a great place to pontificate on actual Masters athletes training. Get a grip... I was initially interested in who might have race the ING before and what to expect. Then the blog goes way downhill. Okay I guess that's Romper Room tonight.

Well, we've gone along in our 50+ threads for several years with nary a hitch. I'm trying to take the high road and focus on the running, as has been the legacy of this thread. There are a lot of really dedicated runners that have posted on this thread that also want and deserve nothing but the best. Please let us not allow this to devolve. It has been a real joy for me and so many others.