We merged two Mary Cain threads into 1. The 2nd one was entitled, "Update: Mary Cain makes another sexual allegation - Alberto Salazar looked at her exposed breasts while she was sleeping"
I started the thread yesterday about how I read in the WSJ review of Cain's memoir that Cain claims her HS coach took a perverse interest in her sex life. Today I've read another review in RW and find out she's accused Salazar of looking at her exposed breasts?
RW wrote:
Sometimes, as Cain slept in the guest room of Salazar’s home, she would awaken in the night to find him watching her sleep, she says, even once when her breasts were exposed. She pretended she was sleeping.
Yet another day. Yet another sexual allegation.
I guess I'm going to have to buy this book. I really didn't want to. But I'm supposed to believe she has like the 3 worse HS coaches ever and then Salazar as well?
There clearly isn't a zero percent chance that she was the problem and the common denominator here, but at least the RW reviewer had some skepticism to begin with.
RW wrote:
Early in the book you might find yourself questioning Cain’s repeated assertions that the world had positioned itself against her in almost every way. Then you get deep enough into the book, and you realize that, of course, it had.
But why would her breasts be exposed? Someone who has read the book, can you write exactly what she has alleged by Salazar and HS coach in terms of sex?
Maybe you should stop creating threads on here about a book you haven't read.
I've read the book and have some skepticism of certain aspects of it, but this part you mention in particular certainly isn't one of them. Seems like prime fodder for a bunch of LetsRun dudes, though, right?
Mary stayed at Alberto's because her actual home base at the time was on the other side of the country in New York. There are a multitude of reasons given in the book for why this setup seemed kosher. Mary was sleeping without a shirt because it was incredibly hot in Portland and she was in a private room inside an altitude tent.
If further reading of media reviews sparks such burning questions in you, maybe you should just read the book.
Full disclosure I haven't read the book yet, but as a healthcare professional licensed to prescribe, I can tell you that you can't just get drugs for anyone, anytime. Not good medicine, unethical and illegal in most states and definitely across state lines and country borders. When someone asks, especially when it is a friend that you feel is taking advantage of your friendship, we call that emotional blackmail. Someone is literally asking you to risk you medical license and your livelihood. So I could see someone reacting strongly to the ask, especially when we are talking about cancer drugs. It was probably triggering, and someone should have been enough of a grown-up to be sure they had the drugs they needed before they left.
That’s an extraordinary overreach. It’s not emotional blackmail to ask for assistance from a medical provider to help a person figure out a way to either get an Rx filled overseas, or find a way to help them have it shipped/get it to them somehow. People without medical backgrounds likely don’t even know the limitations you’re referring to — so, as a seasoned clinician, Mary’s dad should have simply said something like, “Unfortunately, I can’t so that, but let me see if there’s anything else I can do to help you.” As a professional (or a friend), that is the correct “grown-up” response.
Do you all actually not comprehend that perhaps what was being asked of Dr. Cain was to transport banned substances for NOP athletes under the guise of "Pete is out of his cancer meds?"
What often gets forgotten is that Salazar removed Cain from team due poor performance. Cain then begged Salazar to take her back and was refused. Only after this did any of the complaints and issues arise.
Cain's complaints would have had more validity if she had left the team on her own at the peak of her powers.
Sort of:
"Yes, I'm having a lot of success now with Alberto, but there are things happening to me in the program I am unhappy with. Choosing to leave now gives me a chance to help women in sports and to simply do the right thing."
...of course it did not happen like that.
Similarly, despite all the stress, Cain was able to maintain a 4.0 GPA in college, and later be admitted to Stanford Med School. So from a parents perspective, all the suffering under Salazar did not have any impact on her academics, or future career options.
1. People need to actually read the book before trying to comment on the book.
2. People need to understand what it's like for a young teenager to go through abuse and not have anyone help. Then someone comes along and says "I'll help you, you'll be the best in the world!"
If you don't know, you don't know. But read the book.
We get all of that, and I am not trying to sound invalidating like the poster you are responding to. Having said that, the problem I have is that these events didn’t happen yesterday; it’s been over a decade now. And it’s not that Mary didn’t get justice; she made out with what was surely a size-able settlement with Nike and AlSal is completely ruined. He can’t even coach squirrels to run around a tree without being banned now. She has literally won. At this point it’s beating on a dead horse. We all get it. She was treated unfairly. Women go through what she went through and worse all the time. Clearly she still feels that she was betrayed and that she needs to be heard. She needs to let it go. What else could she possibly gain? She has money, Salazar is the most hated man in the running world, and I am positive that other young women have been helped by her story. Time to move on.
Man, I'm tired of hearing about Mary Cain and her accusations. At this point, she is clearly just an attention seeker hoping to stay relevant after the world has moved on from her junior days. Can Letsrun just ban any threads about her accusations for at least two weeks?
I'm finally fed up with this sheet. She is wallowing in drama. She's taking it into as many overtimes (5, 6, 7?) as she can get out of it. Alberto is a strange guy, who was doing creepy things to his female athletes, that is true, but this is just too much. At some point you have to decide who is actually telling the truth, and who is not? She could have quit Alberto/Nike after months, or a year at most. But she didn't. Enough.
This is the take you give when you lack empathy and critical thinking. May you never find yourself or a loved one in an abusive dynamic.
Way to go caaling out every great young runner who failed later. Cain is number 1 in terms of highest potential but Tuohy is number 2.
Yes, and Tuohy hasn't retired yet or written a book or turned 29...
As for Salazar, it is public knowledge that he has a history of publicly commenting on female athletes' chests and butts, that sicko. Plus of course a lifetime ban for egregious sexual misconduct. But LR readers prefer to gang up on Mary for some reason.
Mary's dad was a doctor, pretty ideal for doping, just saying. The Gouchers also had their pre-existing relationship with the shady doc, and then tried to question NOP for other runners using the same guy. Mary, like the Gouchers, gives off big magician/politician "look over" here vibes, so you're not questioning something else about them.
Did Mary mention anyone in the book that she *did* like? Honest question.
Hazarding a guess at Alexi Pappas. I've also gotten far enough in to see she liked the New York State Champion in XC; she didn't name them but the timing and descriptions suggest possibly Aisling Cuffe
That’s an extraordinary overreach. It’s not emotional blackmail to ask for assistance from a medical provider to help a person figure out a way to either get an Rx filled overseas, or find a way to help them have it shipped/get it to them somehow. People without medical backgrounds likely don’t even know the limitations you’re referring to — so, as a seasoned clinician, Mary’s dad should have simply said something like, “Unfortunately, I can’t so that, but let me see if there’s anything else I can do to help you.” As a professional (or a friend), that is the correct “grown-up” response.
Do you all actually not comprehend that perhaps what was being asked of Dr. Cain was to transport banned substances for NOP athletes under the guise of "Pete is out of his cancer meds?"
Duh.
Except you’re wrong. Nothing about his medication would benefit anyone other than a cancer patient.
Did Mary mention anyone in the book that she *did* like? Honest question.
Hazarding a guess at Alexi Pappas. I've also gotten far enough in to see she liked the New York State Champion in XC; she didn't name them but the timing and descriptions suggest possibly Aisling Cuffe
Ah, so she is capable of not naming specific individuals, but only when she's not bashing them.
Isn't Pappas tight with Hasay? That's got to put a bit of strain on the Mary-Alexi friendship when Mary's out there publicly bashing Jordan.
She was so lonely throughout. That part broke my heart. She just didn't have anyone and she was so hopeful that this team would be the team she always wished she had. It was awful to read about her keeping her faith in these people who just so obviously did not care about her.
We talk a lot about Mary and her parents, but what about Salazar? Why on earth would he choose to train a teenager the way he did? That was on him. He wasn't a high school coach.
1. MC seems to have problems with every single teammate and most people she interacted with. There's a constant here. I was friends with some of the folks she ran with at that time [in Portland] and had no issues with them. I recall over beers with one runner at the time him repeatedly asking "what was Alberto thinking bringing her here?" and stating that this was a "trainwreck".
2. Alberto had been a high school boys coach previously with a certain amount of success and no notable issues that I'm aware of.
Stepping back: I don't blame MC for being an entitled, narcissistic, immature, and socially inept child. Mostly blame her parents for that. However, she's an adult now. Writing a book attacking virtually every single person you've crossed paths with and not recognizing that most of them were reasonable, thoughtful people with whom any issues you had were mostly due to your own behavior shows that, unfortunately, MC has not grown as a person in the least since that time. That's too bad and does reflect on her.
A girl gets abused by a maniac and we blame the teenage girl.
No one is saying that Cain or more so her parents don't have some responsibility for turning a blind eye.
But the amount of cope on this thread is unbelievable. Salazar was watching a teenage girl sleep. Salazar, the man who sexually assaulted one of his other athletes. No, this isn't some weird I'm just checking on the altitude tent. It's creepy, by a man who got banned from the sport after an investigation for being beyond creepy with women.
The bottom line is that Cain was put in a horrible situation. Her parents should have done more. But most of the blame resides on Salazar, Treasure, Julian and the other adults for bringing a teenage girl into an abusive environment. I mean, when she was cutting herself they did F all about it. They just didn't care.
And as far as the cancer medication. Wake up people. We have multiple documented attempts of Salazar trying to smuggle drugs into other countries. What were those drugs, we only have what Salazar said. But anyone with a brain knows that if you're going on an overseas trip you bring enough of your cancer drugs to last the whole time. The real reason is almost certainly more nefarious.
No one is saying that Cain or more so her parents don't have some responsibility for turning a blind eye.
No one? Did Cain herself acknowledge her own mistakes and especially those of her parents? If so, I haven't heard of it.
Two things can be true at once: 1) Salazar and his program (e.g. Treasure) were horrible and toxic, and 2) Cain and her parents made terrible decisions about her life, up to and including Cain's decision to write this book and bash tons of people by name. Everyone already knows about #1, it's not as notable, but #2 is becoming more and more obvious as the years go by.
What often gets forgotten is that Salazar removed Cain from team due poor performance. Cain then begged Salazar to take her back and was refused. Only after this did any of the complaints and issues arise.
Cain's complaints would have had more validity if she had left the team on her own at the peak of her powers.
Sort of:
"Yes, I'm having a lot of success now with Alberto, but there are things happening to me in the program I am unhappy with. Choosing to leave now gives me a chance to help women in sports and to simply do the right thing."
...of course it did not happen like that.
Similarly, despite all the stress, Cain was able to maintain a 4.0 GPA in college, and later be admitted to Stanford Med School. So from a parents perspective, all the suffering under Salazar did not have any impact on her academics, or future career options.
1. People need to actually read the book before trying to comment on the book.
2. People need to understand what it's like for a young teenager to go through abuse and not have anyone help. Then someone comes along and says "I'll help you, you'll be the best in the world!"
If you don't know, you don't know. But read the book.
“People don’t want to read the book” or for that matter give to Caine’s slush fund. We’ve seen all we need to see on this thread.
I have read both Kara’s and Des’s books and hated how they perceived themselves. If not for LETSRUN both of them think they are popular. I have not read Mary’s book and probably never will because I feel like I’m getting the same vibes.
There is never a chapter in any of these books about when they made a teammate better. Every failure has to do with poor teammates, poor coaching, and abuse. Every success is what they overcame and all credit goes to them.
This speaks volumes about how they view themselves. I have very little respect for any of them.
Thank you for saying this about the Julian story. That’s how I interpreted it. Prednisone is a “cancer medication” y’all. Cancer patients take it to keep their energy levels up during chemo treatments. her story falls in line with others stories of the Salazar camp transporting drugs.
Mary never came forward about sketchy drug use stories until now. Her stories in the book sometimes are not stated but heavily implied but they are there.
It's well known by now that Salazar was abusive, so that is not Cain's or her parents' fault. Blaming them for joining a prestigious (at the time) professional running coach and group doesn't change or help anything. In the book she says she didn't really follow professional running much beforehand and her parents definitely didn't. They probably weren't digging through a niche message board for what at the time were rumors about NOP. A lot of us here, myself included, thought it was a bad idea for her to join/go pro, but at the end of the day we have no real influence outside of this little echo chamber.
As for my personal opinion about her book, I'm glad she shared her experiences, however it doesn't seem like she has fully processed/healed. There is a lot of bitterness towards nearly every person she mentions in the book. As much as she writes about others bullying her, there is a lot of projection going on. For example, is Shalane Flanagan really a bully for looking at her the wrong way (based on her own perception)? She throws so many people under the bus and names names. Even those she does not name are easy to figure out. She even complains about running *fans* and media.
There just doesn't feel like there's any resolution or overall message to her story other than negativity and hate, especially for the sport of running.
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