I have commented throughout on his 21.8 run, it was you who expanded the topic to your certainty he was going to win the indoors - which wasn't the thread topic but your interpretation of it. I have since put his win in perspective. But you won't have to worry about reading views you don't like; the mods always look after those like you who can't cope.
How did discussing the World Champ Workout's implications for Cooper's prospects in the World Indoor Championships expand the topic???
You haven't put his win in perspective. You've tried to diminish it. Embarrassingly so.
I have no coping to do because what I said would happen came to pass. You are obviously the one doing all the coping (and seething).
Is anyone with any knowledge of track arguing that a 21.8 flying start 200 is any faster than a 22.6 FAT 200? How is that supposed to demonstrate superior ability over the distance when every second 800 runner could do that, if not much faster? What is the indication that his top-end sprint speed, as shown by his 200 time, is significantly faster than that? 21 secs - as posed - is simply another order of speed, which he so far hasn't shown. These points have nothing to do with what he ran over 800 at the indoors, which has more to do with his endurance.
How did discussing the World Champ Workout's implications for Cooper's prospects in the World Indoor Championships expand the topic???
You haven't put his win in perspective. You've tried to diminish it. Embarrassingly so.
I have no coping to do because what I said would happen came to pass. You are obviously the one doing all the coping (and seething).
Exactly. Plus, why isn’t he putting it in the perspective of all 17-year olds anywhere around the globe EVER winning a global championship in history rather than just contemporary, late-20 something Brits and Kiwis? Because that would be the fair comparison and the “perspective.” Oh wait.
Why is it so painful for so many here to see that what he has just done at the world's is so far simply match what Beamish has done? It isn't a prediction or comparison of their future careers. But what the thread is about, and what I was more interested in, is what is CL's top end speed and does a flying start 200 tell us much about that. I suggest, not much.
That's what most on this thread don't get. They think his 21.8 flying 200 means he is at least a full second faster. There's no evidence of it.
Right. Just as there’s no evidence that he can’t break 22 FAT just because of a “conversion” from a workout time, and he’s never done it before and is two years removed from doing one as a 15-year old frosh. Nobody here is saying CL can run 44.9. But his coach is. And his coach just steered him to a gold medal.
I'm waiting for his coach to tell us CL has run sub-21 for the 200. Sub-22, which he so far hasn't done, won't enable sub-45 for the 400 or anywhere near it.
How did discussing the World Champ Workout's implications for Cooper's prospects in the World Indoor Championships expand the topic???
You haven't put his win in perspective. You've tried to diminish it. Embarrassingly so.
I have no coping to do because what I said would happen came to pass. You are obviously the one doing all the coping (and seething).
Is anyone with any knowledge of track arguing that a 21.8 flying start 200 is any faster than a 22.6 FAT 200? How is that supposed to demonstrate superior ability over the distance when every second 800 runner could do that, if not much faster? What is the indication that his top-end sprint speed, as shown by his 200 time, is significantly faster than that? 21 secs - as posed - is simply another order of speed, which he so far hasn't shown. These points have nothing to do with what he ran over 800 at the indoors, which has more to do with his endurance.
I already explained that to you. It was Cooper's fastest 200m ever. Doesn't matter what other more speed-oriented 800m runners can do in a 200. The point is that someone who ran 1:42 at 16 is getting faster. The workout boded well for the world indoor championship race it was preparing him for.
Is anyone with any knowledge of track arguing that a 21.8 flying start 200 is any faster than a 22.6 FAT 200? How is that supposed to demonstrate superior ability over the distance when every second 800 runner could do that, if not much faster? What is the indication that his top-end sprint speed, as shown by his 200 time, is significantly faster than that? 21 secs - as posed - is simply another order of speed, which he so far hasn't shown. These points have nothing to do with what he ran over 800 at the indoors, which has more to do with his endurance.
I already explained that to you. It was Cooper's fastest 200m ever. Doesn't matter what other more speed-oriented 800m runners can do in a 200. The point is that someone who ran 1:42 at 16 is getting faster. The workout boded well for the world indoor championship race it was preparing him for.
He can’t grasp this. All he can do in his jealousy and grief is grab at what a Kiwi over a decade older has done (in different events lol) and hold that up as some way of saying Lutkenhaus’s win is nothing special while it is in fact extraordinary. Many others have already pointed out his behavior is a mix of envy, jealousy, and a bizarre quirk to constantly be contrarian. They are not wrong.
I already explained that to you. It was Cooper's fastest 200m ever. Doesn't matter what other more speed-oriented 800m runners can do in a 200. The point is that someone who ran 1:42 at 16 is getting faster. The workout boded well for the world indoor championship race it was preparing him for.
He can’t grasp this. All he can do in his jealousy and grief is grab at what a Kiwi over a decade older has done (in different events lol) and hold that up as some way of saying Lutkenhaus’s win is nothing special while it is in fact extraordinary. Many others have already pointed out his behavior is a mix of envy, jealousy, and a bizarre quirk to constantly be contrarian. They are not wrong.
It’s because he has great disdain for America, and, especially, Trump. The weird thing about bringing up Beamish, who I admire greatly, is he has an American coach. Just like Kerr, just like Nick Willis did.
Good post go coop. Nailed it. That’s exactly as many of us thought. But, again, the flying 200 also says nothing about his ultimate 200 ability either. Clearly his coach thinks he’s much faster.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Is anyone with any knowledge of track arguing that a 21.8 flying start 200 is any faster than a 22.6 FAT 200? How is that supposed to demonstrate superior ability over the distance when every second 800 runner could do that, if not much faster? What is the indication that his top-end sprint speed, as shown by his 200 time, is significantly faster than that? 21 secs - as posed - is simply another order of speed, which he so far hasn't shown. These points have nothing to do with what he ran over 800 at the indoors, which has more to do with his endurance.
I already explained that to you. It was Cooper's fastest 200m ever. Doesn't matter what other more speed-oriented 800m runners can do in a 200. The point is that someone who ran 1:42 at 16 is getting faster. The workout boded well for the world indoor championship race it was preparing him for.
You are incorrect. It wasn't his fastest 200 ever. 21.8 flying start is converted to 22.6 FAT. He has previously run just over 22 secs FAT. It didn't show he is getting faster - if he is. He is likely to get better but this training run didn't indicate much but a good level of fitness - for him. But it isn't in any way exceptional for a world class 800 runner. Many are faster than 22-flat and some quite a lot more.
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
I already explained that to you. It was Cooper's fastest 200m ever. Doesn't matter what other more speed-oriented 800m runners can do in a 200. The point is that someone who ran 1:42 at 16 is getting faster. The workout boded well for the world indoor championship race it was preparing him for.
He can’t grasp this. All he can do in his jealousy and grief is grab at what a Kiwi over a decade older has done (in different events lol) and hold that up as some way of saying Lutkenhaus’s win is nothing special while it is in fact extraordinary. Many others have already pointed out his behavior is a mix of envy, jealousy, and a bizarre quirk to constantly be contrarian. They are not wrong.
I didn't say his wc win was nothing special; I simply pointed out the fact that it puts him in a par currently with an athlete like Beamish, who is also an indoor champion (and unlike CL, an outdoor champion). It isn't the same as being a global outdoor champion or even medallist. None of the best in his event were competing.
He can’t grasp this. All he can do in his jealousy and grief is grab at what a Kiwi over a decade older has done (in different events lol) and hold that up as some way of saying Lutkenhaus’s win is nothing special while it is in fact extraordinary. Many others have already pointed out his behavior is a mix of envy, jealousy, and a bizarre quirk to constantly be contrarian. They are not wrong.
It’s because he has great disdain for America, and, especially, Trump. The weird thing about bringing up Beamish, who I admire greatly, is he has an American coach. Just like Kerr, just like Nick Willis did.
Good post go coop. Nailed it. That’s exactly as many of us thought. But, again, the flying 200 also says nothing about his ultimate 200 ability either. Clearly his coach thinks he’s much faster.
We are almost in agreement - on your last paragraph. The flying 200 doesn't necessarily say that much about his potential over that distance, except that he has yet to go below 22secs FAT. His coach may have a view he is faster but if he is then he would have produced a time that showed it. He hasn't.
The point about Beamish, which has so many of you so agitated here, is that it simply puts an indoor title in perspective. It isn't the highest level of the sport. That is the Olympics or the outdoor wc. In that, we shall see as the competition is much more intense and at a higher level.
I already explained that to you. It was Cooper's fastest 200m ever. Doesn't matter what other more speed-oriented 800m runners can do in a 200. The point is that someone who ran 1:42 at 16 is getting faster. The workout boded well for the world indoor championship race it was preparing him for.
You are incorrect. It wasn't his fastest 200 ever. 21.8 flying start is converted to 22.6 FAT. He has previously run just over 22 secs FAT. It didn't show he is getting faster - if he is. He is likely to get better but this training run didn't indicate much but a good level of fitness - for him. But it isn't in any way exceptional for a world class 800 runner. Many are faster than 22-flat and some quite a lot more.
I don't care about flying start conversion. It was the fastest he had ever run 200m, period. It boded well for his race in Poland.
I don't care about flying start conversion. It was the fastest he had ever run 200m, period. It boded well for his race in Poland.
His 21.8 flying start isn't as good as his FAT pr over the distance, which is just over 22 secs. 21.8 converts to 22.6 FAT. You don't understand sprint times if you fail to see that his 21.8 is not his "fastest time". A flying start is never credited with being the same as a FAT time.
It may have boded well for him as a training measure but it wasn't a pr over the distance or even exceptional for an 800 runner.
It was at the end of a workout, idiot. He would certainly be faster if rested.
That isn't the issue. It isn't being disputed. He has already run a faster FAT equivalent of 22-low, as 21.8 flying start converts to 22.6. But so far he hasn't run below 22 secs out of the blocks or he would be credited with that time and his coach would have said so - which he hasn't.
I don't care about flying start conversion. It was the fastest he had ever run 200m, period. It boded well for his race in Poland.
His 21.8 flying start isn't as good as his FAT pr over the distance, which is just over 22 secs. 21.8 converts to 22.6 FAT. You don't understand sprint times if you fail to see that his 21.8 is not his "fastest time". A flying start is never credited with being the same as a FAT time.
It may have boded well for him as a training measure but it wasn't a pr over the distance or even exceptional for an 800 runner.
If the conversion matters that much to you, you can raise your objection with Track: All-Access, who called it his fastest 200m ever in its video title. I was only interested in what the workout indicated for his upcoming race in Poland. That's the last thing I'll say in this thread.
His 21.8 flying start isn't as good as his FAT pr over the distance, which is just over 22 secs. 21.8 converts to 22.6 FAT. You don't understand sprint times if you fail to see that his 21.8 is not his "fastest time". A flying start is never credited with being the same as a FAT time.
It may have boded well for him as a training measure but it wasn't a pr over the distance or even exceptional for an 800 runner.
If the conversion matters that much to you, you can raise your objection with Track: All-Access, who called it his fastest 200m ever in its video title. I was only interested in what the workout indicated for his upcoming race in Poland. That's the last thing I'll say in this thread.
You're entitled to believe it augured well for the indoor champs. I'm not disputing that. I am only saying it doesn't demonstrate yet (not withstanding a headline) that he is significantly faster than 22 secs FAT for the 200, as some have argued he is - up to a whole second. It is a quite specific point and isn't an observation about his career but only what his top end speed appears to be. It is of interest but hardly a contentious topic.
It was at the end of a workout, idiot. He would certainly be faster if rested.
That isn't the issue. It isn't being disputed. He has already run a faster FAT equivalent of 22-low, as 21.8 flying start converts to 22.6. But so far he hasn't run below 22 secs out of the blocks or he would be credited with that time and his coach would have said so - which he hasn't.
His coach said, BASED on his workouts, many of which we are not privy to, one meaningless flying 200 at the end of a session notwithstanding, that Cooper is capable of high 44s for 400 right now. Who are you to tell his coach that he’s wrong, especially when you don’t know what his other workouts are and have zero history with the dude???!!!
He hasn’t run a 200 since he was 15 years old. Only a completely buggered old Kiwi would even entertain speculation that that’s all he’s good for now or that 29-year old Geordie Beamish is a good comparison. When CL is in his late 20s, then you can do a “look back.” The only thing Beamish and Willis and Lutkenhaus have in common are American coaches.