Go ask Dr. Robert Redfield yourself if you are so interested. Surely you must know how to get in contact with him?
-
21
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"robust natural immunity?" jesus. dude. immunity to a coronavirus is measured in months. it's not chicken pox.
what you're really saying is, i want to play the odds i don't die from it, plus push the rules in a direction which increases our risk, eg, bans on mask/vax rules.
and i am going to keep repeating it, what doesn't hurt a 20 year old helps kill an 80 year old. you're upset we do rules that are designed to keep death down but "constrain" the kids.
33 -
Veee Eyee Teee wrote:
FinnJ92 wrote:
I am tired of people on "both sides". I will try to be as objective as I possibly can. Here are facts:
1 Herpevirus are killing more people in the western countries than HIV. What we see is that for every time one get exposed to a virus it increases the change of getting dementia later in life. Why some people don't think the same is true for covid-19 which we know attacks organs is a mystery to me
2 We won't see the long term consequences of covid-19 before most of us are dead. Children who get covid now can die because of it when they are 70+
3 Vaccines protect against severe illness.
4 Vaccinated people can still get infected.
5 The vaccine can make people sick, but the same people would also get sick from covid.
6 There is little reason to get vaccinated if one had covid not to long ago.
7 The 20-25% of the population with apoe4 are twice as likely to get hospitalized as the regular person. Other genetic variants also affect how dangerous it is. An alternative to mass vaccination is to do genetic screening of everyone and have it stored with the pros and cons that have
8 People who did not take the vaccine in the beginning reduced other people's freedom. With less people severely ill society could have opened up much sooner
one of the things i researched when covid was getting rolling was the length of time for immunity for a coronavirus. it's approximately 8 months. this is why you can get colds every year. this is why folks could get covid 3 times.
this is also why the natural immunity concept is idiotic, unless we all get it or vaxed same time. the immunity from getting it doesn't last, doesn't prove you have a strong immune system. and we won't have herd unless everyone is pretty much immune at the same time, same 8 months.
a lot of the problem with opposition to public health concepts is that our self centered country obsesses about "me."
example 1, you refuse to vax and handle it fine, but you visited granddad, and he dies from it.
example 2, kids aren't likely to die from it unless they have immune issues. but schools are known mass spreaders of disease. it bounces between the kids. the kids give it to teachers, staff, who can die from it. they take it home to parents and relatives, who can die from it. the analysis is narrowly focused on is johnny or joanie going to die of it. no. but it would have sped spread around communities.
last, the risk analysis by the hucksters is wrong. tons of people died before any vaccine. 1 million plus died in this country alone. compare that to vax deaths. hmmmm do i want to take the risk of disease death or of pretend vax death. this is so easy a child should get it right.
the reason you folks try to make disease deaths into vax deaths is otherwise your numbers really really suck. so you have to lie. and you're lying because you're speculating and making analytical leaps. it's not connected by science.
it's indicative of how obnoxiously overpoliticized this country is that it's gone this direction.
There is such a thing as cell-mediated immunity. Your myopic eight-month antibody response example shows the degree of your illiteracy on immunology and virology, frankly. You weigh in on all sorts of topics that you really have no clue about, like any good lib.
The real selfish people were the vaccinated ones who went out and superspread it because they thought they were immune. That is how I got it. But if you want to group them w all the “red hats” who deliberately went out to bars and such to get and spread Covid in the early days, fine by me. That wasn’t me. I already told you I played by the rules and, frankly, enhanced community immunity. Haven’t had Covid since 2022. But your multi-vaxxed heroes over at SNL are still getting and spreading it. Very curious.
31 -
Sub-9:00 guy wrote:
Harambe wrote:
So you didn’t get a vaccine that works because some dudes on message boards made you mad?
You sure showed us.
Nope, I didn’t get the “primary” series because I already had natural immunity, which is better, and I didn’t trust the LNP-mRNA vax. I would’ve gotten Novavax, you know, the one the former head of the CDC during Covid recommended after he had an epiphany that the mRNA vaccines came with an inordinate amount of risk, but the same communist tyrant autocrats on here who were just fine with shutting down small businesses and schools and inflationary overstimulus in the wake of Covid we’re not to be trusted. The ones who yelled the loudest with the most amount of hubris, just like our media.
"would've gotten?" then you have no real knowledge on the matter, period.
mrna isn't your DNA. novavax is not your DNA, either. you don't get vaccines. by definition the idea is to send something into your body that is foreign but more benign to trigger your response to non-self, which is enough like the disease that your body's immune response is triggered and prepared for a potential real one. all of it is "non self."
the alternative is we go back to seeing who survives mass plagues. which, the death toll suggests we don't have "robust natural immunity," not really.
what you folks are trying to do is either suggest putting foreign stuff into your body is bad -- saying this in between meals and drinks and snacks and kissing your dog and otherwise dripping in foreign stuff -- or trying to suggest vaccination is worse than disease, which is infantile.
do you not see where we got vaccines and within a year or so, mostly *poof*?
you want me to go down the list of viruses this is true for?
the worst part is a lot of this argument is just libertarian pouting -- "you can't tell me what to do" -- posing as a science discussion. science is usually done by the weight of studies. the weight is on the disease was bad and the vaccines worked.
42 -
Sub-9:00 guy wrote:
Veee Eyee Teee wrote:
one of the things i researched when covid was getting rolling was the length of time for immunity for a coronavirus. it's approximately 8 months. this is why you can get colds every year. this is why folks could get covid 3 times.
this is also why the natural immunity concept is idiotic, unless we all get it or vaxed same time. the immunity from getting it doesn't last, doesn't prove you have a strong immune system. and we won't have herd unless everyone is pretty much immune at the same time, same 8 months.
a lot of the problem with opposition to public health concepts is that our self centered country obsesses about "me."
example 1, you refuse to vax and handle it fine, but you visited granddad, and he dies from it.
example 2, kids aren't likely to die from it unless they have immune issues. but schools are known mass spreaders of disease. it bounces between the kids. the kids give it to teachers, staff, who can die from it. they take it home to parents and relatives, who can die from it. the analysis is narrowly focused on is johnny or joanie going to die of it. no. but it would have sped spread around communities.
last, the risk analysis by the hucksters is wrong. tons of people died before any vaccine. 1 million plus died in this country alone. compare that to vax deaths. hmmmm do i want to take the risk of disease death or of pretend vax death. this is so easy a child should get it right.
the reason you folks try to make disease deaths into vax deaths is otherwise your numbers really really suck. so you have to lie. and you're lying because you're speculating and making analytical leaps. it's not connected by science.
it's indicative of how obnoxiously overpoliticized this country is that it's gone this direction.
There is such a thing as cell-mediated immunity. Your myopic eight-month antibody response example shows the degree of your illiteracy on immunology and virology, frankly. You weigh in on all sorts of topics that you really have no clue about, like any good lib.
The real selfish people were the vaccinated ones who went out and superspread it because they thought they were immune. That is how I got it. But if you want to group them w all the “red hats” who deliberately went out to bars and such to get and spread Covid in the early days, fine by me. That wasn’t me. I already told you I played by the rules and, frankly, enhanced community immunity. Haven’t had Covid since 2022. But your multi-vaxxed heroes over at SNL are still getting and spreading it. Very curious.
first off, i doubt most of them are up to date on their shots. i'm not. did you actually poll them or are you assuming? that's not science.
second, it's laughable to suggest conservatives were less rather than more risky in their behaviors during covid. i knew some who were obnoxious. and i think most of us have flipped the off switch at this point and no one is more risky than the other. are you seriously implying we don't do mass stuff now? right after the super bowl? etc. etc. we ALL got back to normal.
third, all due respect to your half educated nonsense, but in a pandemic, i want my immune system "on," in 8 month increments, not relying on a body that gets a cold every year to "remember" when a fairly different variant shows up.
you don't need to be anywhere near epidemiology or immunology. you'd be like telling people they don't need a flu shot because the last one for another variant suffices, and "you have natural immunity." "your body will remember."
it's a dumb bet.
31 -
2600 bro wrote:
Guy in my town was t-boned by a drunk driver on the way back from his booster. Family is suing Pfizer. Power to the people!!!
Rats are upset. They were expecting chicken bones with scraps of meat. Those rats got into the dumpster and found this:
02 -
you're trying to tell me your body will remember when the virus is spreading enough it's mutating and people are getting it multiple times. self refuting nonsense.
it's not just that the direct response fades, it's the beast changes. if the beast changes, your natural response is less prepared, and the fastest response aspects are gone after the 8 months.
last, your ilk can't seem to decide whether we should all naturally fend off round 1, or whether in some fascistic sense we want the world to select for those who survive it. in other words, that we know x% don't make it.
based on a million dead, we both know it took a chomp out of us, that natural immunity didn't handle it exceptionally -- not like a cold -- in which case you could only be saying people are expendable, and should be left so, even if a vaccine changes the calculus downwards.
21 -
Sub-9:00 guy wrote:
Harambe wrote:
So you didn’t get a vaccine that works because some dudes on message boards made you mad?
You sure showed us.
Nope, I didn’t get the “primary” series because I already had natural immunity, which is better, and I didn’t trust the LNP-mRNA vax. I would’ve gotten Novavax, you know, the one the former head of the CDC during Covid recommended after he had an epiphany that the mRNA vaccines came with an inordinate amount of risk, but the same communist tyrant autocrats on here who were just fine with shutting down small businesses and schools and inflationary overstimulus in the wake of Covid we’re not to be trusted. The ones who yelled the loudest with the most amount of hubris, just like our media.
To quote you:
”I was still considering getting the Novavax shot as I never though the mRNA/LNP vax was a good idea, but the consistent hubris and narcissism displayed by “scientists” like 2600bro talked me out of it. F these guys.”
Sounds like you turned down a vaccine that works because some guys made you mad online. Interesting rational choice.
41 -
Sub-9:00 guy wrote:
Go ask Dr. Robert Redfield yourself if you are so interested. Surely you must know how to get in contact with him?
Why can none of the antivaxxers ever respond to my questions?
31 -
Sub-9:00 guy wrote:
Veee Eyee Teee wrote:
one of the things i researched when covid was getting rolling was the length of time for immunity for a coronavirus. it's approximately 8 months. this is why you can get colds every year. this is why folks could get covid 3 times.
this is also why the natural immunity concept is idiotic, unless we all get it or vaxed same time. the immunity from getting it doesn't last, doesn't prove you have a strong immune system. and we won't have herd unless everyone is pretty much immune at the same time, same 8 months.
a lot of the problem with opposition to public health concepts is that our self centered country obsesses about "me."
example 1, you refuse to vax and handle it fine, but you visited granddad, and he dies from it.
example 2, kids aren't likely to die from it unless they have immune issues. but schools are known mass spreaders of disease. it bounces between the kids. the kids give it to teachers, staff, who can die from it. they take it home to parents and relatives, who can die from it. the analysis is narrowly focused on is johnny or joanie going to die of it. no. but it would have sped spread around communities.
last, the risk analysis by the hucksters is wrong. tons of people died before any vaccine. 1 million plus died in this country alone. compare that to vax deaths. hmmmm do i want to take the risk of disease death or of pretend vax death. this is so easy a child should get it right.
the reason you folks try to make disease deaths into vax deaths is otherwise your numbers really really suck. so you have to lie. and you're lying because you're speculating and making analytical leaps. it's not connected by science.
it's indicative of how obnoxiously overpoliticized this country is that it's gone this direction.
There is such a thing as cell-mediated immunity. Your myopic eight-month antibody response example shows the degree of your illiteracy on immunology and virology, frankly. You weigh in on all sorts of topics that you really have no clue about, like any good lib.
The real selfish people were the vaccinated ones who went out and superspread it because they thought they were immune. That is how I got it. But if you want to group them w all the “red hats” who deliberately went out to bars and such to get and spread Covid in the early days, fine by me. That wasn’t me. I already told you I played by the rules and, frankly, enhanced community immunity. Haven’t had Covid since 2022. But your multi-vaxxed heroes over at SNL are still getting and spreading it. Very curious.
Infection confers good T cell memory responses. But suspect B cell responses - vaccination confers great (if not super durable) B cell response. B cell response prevents or limits infection, spreading, duration. Ignoring ab responses and claiming T cell response is all that matters is an order of magnitude more myopic and good-lib-coded than Veee's response.
21 -
Harambe wrote:
Sub-9:00 guy wrote:
Nope, I didn’t get the “primary” series because I already had natural immunity, which is better, and I didn’t trust the LNP-mRNA vax. I would’ve gotten Novavax, you know, the one the former head of the CDC during Covid recommended after he had an epiphany that the mRNA vaccines came with an inordinate amount of risk, but the same communist tyrant autocrats on here who were just fine with shutting down small businesses and schools and inflationary overstimulus in the wake of Covid we’re not to be trusted. The ones who yelled the loudest with the most amount of hubris, just like our media.
To quote you:
”I was still considering getting the Novavax shot as I never though the mRNA/LNP vax was a good idea, but the consistent hubris and narcissism displayed by “scientists” like 2600bro talked me out of it. F these guys.”
Sounds like you turned down a vaccine that works because some guys made you mad online. Interesting rational choice.
Being a moron and posting about it gleefully online to own the libs! Oh no! He got us!
31 -
bringing it back wrote:
2600 bro wrote:
Sure just ignore the 100k+ studies on COVID-19 and cardiovascular risk from 2020 (pre-vaccine) alone... you are a liar or extremely stupid.
Here is an abstract from March 2020:
Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is a global pandemic affecting 185
countries and >3 000 000 patients worldwide as of April 28, 2020.
COVID-19 is caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2,
which invades cells through the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2
receptor. Among patients with COVID-19, there is a high prevalence of
cardiovascular disease, and >7% of patients experience myocardial
injury from the infection (22% of critically ill patients).I love that Newname bumped the thread and then got absolutely taken to task.
All while 2020420 avoids this thread as if it is a COVID vaccine because of the idiocy he said on here.
March 2020 is when Covid was a "novel" disease that next to nothing was known about.
Yet you believe that it was already known that it caused heart issues.
You need to pay attention when things are happening. In March 0f 2020 when the fear campaign began, there was no mention of heart problems from Covid. None at all. Have you no short term memory? They are rewriting history. These are the people who now claim they never said the jab would stop transmission and the jab are never mandated
12 -
Veee Eyee Teee wrote:
you're trying to tell me your body will remember when the virus is spreading enough it's mutating and people are getting it multiple times. self refuting nonsense.
it's not just that the direct response fades, it's the beast changes. if the beast changes, your natural response is less prepared, and the fastest response aspects are gone after the 8 months.
Yet the jab works? How does it mutate to defeat the Covid mutations?
Could be 7-9 years before the true damage the jab is doing is revealed
22 -
Newname wrote:
bringing it back wrote:
I love that Newname bumped the thread and then got absolutely taken to task.
All while 2020420 avoids this thread as if it is a COVID vaccine because of the idiocy he said on here.
March 2020 is when Covid was a "novel" disease that next to nothing was known about.
Yet you believe that it was already known that it caused heart issues.
You need to pay attention when things are happening. In March 0f 2020 when the fear campaign began, there was no mention of heart problems from Covid. None at all. Have you no short term memory? They are rewriting history. These are the people who now claim they never said the jab would stop transmission and the jab are never mandated
Your revisionist history has been debunked Newname. Wake up and stop being a sheep.
32 -
2600 bro wrote:
Being a moron and posting about it gleefully online to own the libs! Oh no! He got us!
That statement is further proof. The vaxxers have transitioned from denial to anger.
22 -
Viruses suck. Do what you can to keep them at bay.
Measles and pertussis are coming back wtf.
21 -
Newname wrote:
bringing it back wrote:
I love that Newname bumped the thread and then got absolutely taken to task.
All while 2020420 avoids this thread as if it is a COVID vaccine because of the idiocy he said on here.
March 2020 is when Covid was a "novel" disease that next to nothing was known about.
Yet you believe that it was already known that it caused heart issues.
You need to pay attention when things are happening. In March 0f 2020 when the fear campaign began, there was no mention of heart problems from Covid. None at all. Have you no short term memory? They are rewriting history. These are the people who now claim they never said the jab would stop transmission and the jab are never mandated
So you’re claiming the hundreds of medical centers reporting increase CV risk after infection in Mar/Apr 2020 were lying? Or the reports were secretly editing after the fact?
Which one? I’ve sent evidence of mass reported CV risk from COVID well before vaccines.32 -
the_real_DanM_from_Massachusetts wrote:
2600 bro wrote:
Being a moron and posting about it gleefully online to own the libs! Oh no! He got us!
That statement is further proof. The vaxxers have transitioned from denial to anger.
What was I denying and what am I angry about? And how does this post support that claim?
32 -
bringing it back wrote:
Newname wrote:
March 2020 is when Covid was a "novel" disease that next to nothing was known about.
Yet you believe that it was already known that it caused heart issues.
You need to pay attention when things are happening. In March 0f 2020 when the fear campaign began, there was no mention of heart problems from Covid. None at all. Have you no short term memory? They are rewriting history. These are the people who now claim they never said the jab would stop transmission and the jab are never mandated
Your revisionist history has been debunked Newname. Wake up and stop being a sheep.
You really can't even remember five years ago?
04 -
Newname wrote:
bringing it back wrote:
Your revisionist history has been debunked Newname. Wake up and stop being a sheep.
You really can't even remember five years ago?
I can, which is why I called out your revisionist history.
30
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