I understand that some arguments are simply too difficult for some of you to grasp.
You havn't given a single argument to the point in question. You have just had your own discussion with yourself without any connection to the post you replyd to.
I have responded to your arguments. However, I see you can't follow any argument except your own - and they aren't worth following.
You havn't given a single argument to the point in question. You have just had your own discussion with yourself without any connection to the post you replyd to.
I have responded to your arguments. However, I see you can't follow any argument except your own - and they aren't worth following.
You havn't. As in any "discussion" with you, you change the subject in any post. The only way for you to "survive".
What makes Bolt better than Bekele when Bekele is superior in many more events across a longer span of time? The sport of running consists of every event from running 60 meters to running until your legs fall off, and Bolt by his own admission would lose in an 800m run to the best womens 800m runner.
I definitely agree that to be the GOAT you need both WRs and medals, but having either WRs or medals in a vast range of events over a long period of time weighs higher than having both in one event.
I have responded to your arguments. However, I see you can't follow any argument except your own - and they aren't worth following.
You havn't. As in any "discussion" with you, you change the subject in any post. The only way for you to "survive".
To you, any point that you aren't in agreement with is "changing the subject". Since the subject is whether or not Jakob fulfils his ambition to be the GOAT I will say it is, so far, and empty boast and unlikely to happen.
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At age 22, no one in history has done as good as Ingebrigtsen from 1500m to 5k. For a runner who tends to the longer events (he has shown already extremely good endurence) that's a solid basis to seriously challenge his goal of becoming the GOAT distance runner. At the moment for sure he is far from this (nobody has said any different). For me, Olympic titles in the 5k and the 10k as well as more world records (also in at least 1 Olympic event) would be enough (maybe backed up with a steeple or half-marathon success). I don't think he ever will match the longevity of Gebrselassie, Bekele or Kipchoge. But for me, that's not necessary (others might differ) with his already achieved 1500m success, which is a big advantage against the others. For sure Elliott, Snell or Viren are no contenders.
I've not conceded anything, Dumbstrong. I try to explain to you what the discussion is about - so far a failed badly, since you are as far from understanding as at the beginning.
It's not my measure, Dumbliar.
You are a stuck record. I can't be bothered responding to that twaddle.
For sure.
Just facts and my personal view what's necessary to become GOAT for him.
What has Ingebrigtsen to achieve more in his career, that you would call him GOAT distance runner, Dumby?
What makes Bolt better than Bekele when Bekele is superior in many more events across a longer span of time? The sport of running consists of every event from running 60 meters to running until your legs fall off, and Bolt by his own admission would lose in an 800m run to the best womens 800m runner.
I definitely agree that to be the GOAT you need both WRs and medals, but having either WRs or medals in a vast range of events over a long period of time weighs higher than having both in one event.
You don't judge an athlete by the events they DON'T run.
You havn't. As in any "discussion" with you, you change the subject in any post. The only way for you to "survive".
To you, any point that you aren't in agreement with is "changing the subject". Since the subject is whether or not Jakob fulfils his ambition to be the GOAT I will say it is, so far, and empty boast and unlikely to happen.
Why is it unlikely that an Olympic champion and fourth fastest 1500m time in history, which according to himself is his worst event, can be the GOAT?
I didn't misunderstand the subject but you are too intellectually pedestrian to have followed my point. As I keep saying, it is both arbitrary and irrelevant to say Jakob is the best ever at a combination of distances if he is demonstrably not the best at one. That is why I introduced the example of Elliott. (I also didn't include the 880 as a measure of Elliott's superiority over Jakob, only to include it as one of the events he won at the Cardiff Empire Games). I don't agree with your criteria for greatness - and especially as you chose to define it by a certain age.
So I haven't made a mistake; I don't agree with you and the other plodders arguing an all-rounder, who isn't the best at any one event, beats the best specialist for greatness. In any case, it will not be what Jakob means. With his ego he expects to be the best at every event he competes in - until "the next guy" comes along.
What makes Bolt better than Bekele when Bekele is superior in many more events across a longer span of time? The sport of running consists of every event from running 60 meters to running until your legs fall off, and Bolt by his own admission would lose in an 800m run to the best womens 800m runner.
I definitely agree that to be the GOAT you need both WRs and medals, but having either WRs or medals in a vast range of events over a long period of time weighs higher than having both in one event.
You don't judge an athlete by the events they DON'T run.
Yes you do, when you argue who the best runner is, not who the best in one event is. A person who can only put up elite times in a handful of distances is not a better runner than a person who can put up elite times in a vast range of distances.
You havn't. As in any "discussion" with you, you change the subject in any post. The only way for you to "survive".
To you, any point that you aren't in agreement with is "changing the subject". Since the subject is whether or not Jakob fulfils his ambition to be the GOAT I will say it is, so far, and empty boast and unlikely to happen.
For sure you are wrong also here. It has nothing to do with not in agreement of subjective things (what's necessary to become GOAT for example).
You have cjanged the subjkect at least 10 times on those last few pages in this thread. Good to see in your latest posts.
You denied the simple statement that Ingebrigtsen's PBs at age 22 are worth much more than Snell's PBs at the same age. You did it with mentioning achievements from Snell he did later in his career.
And it was the same with any single point in this thread. You are just plain stupid. And a pure liar. Nothing new, you act like this since years.
Let's see what Ingebrigtsen can do in the next 10 years.
You are a stuck record. I can't be bothered responding to that twaddle.
For sure.
Just facts and my personal view what's necessary to become GOAT for him.
What has Ingebrigtsen to achieve more in his career, that you would call him GOAT distance runner, Dumby?
He would have to have an Olympic title over the 5000m (as El G had), he would need to successfully defend his 1500m Olympic title (as Coe did), he would need a handful of WC 1500 titles (as El G did), and he would need to have the world marks for the 1500/mile (as El G did) and the 5k (as Viren and Bekele did). That is the minimum. Ultimately, he has to not only match the very best in history, he has to exceed them - or he is not the GOAT.
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Yes, an athlete can be GOAT distance runner based on only 1 event. But at the current moment thats extremely hard (if not almost impossible).
How would you trump Bekele's (or Gebrselassie's or...) achievements with one event? A career stretching two full decades with top achievements at a variety of events?
How can a pure 1500m runner (for example) top this? 4 Olympic titles and various sub 3:24 times? Maybe.
To better Bekele and Gebrselassie, you need several events. Success at the highest level from 1500m to 5k is a solid basis for Ingebrigtsen to achieve his goal. Let's wait to see what he can do in the years to come.
At the moment I'm really sceptical if he will win in Paris.
I think I prefer to be a little undecided and blurry when it comes to comparing athletes from different events… F.ex Bolt -If he ran 9.65 instead of 9.58, and kept his 200m WR and f.ex did 43.60: Would he then still been in the Goat discussion, but based on range more than one excellent event? I think so. But his 9.58 is 0.10 better than number two on the all time list -he doesn’t need Haile’s or Bekele’s range to be competitive…
And what about Rudisha -he ran his WR in a totally unpaced championship. And Elliott -won by 3 seconds on a time that is so good that calibrated to our current conditions (shoes, tracks, pacers, pacing lights, “strung out by the rail running”) clearly would be competitive…
Conclusion: There are 3-4 athletes I see very little point of trying to differentiate between. Maybe even Jakob sees it this way. -That he has to do something huge over multiple events to be The One. He also seems to take it as granted that his best events are 10k / half marathon - we just have to wait and see if he totally is in alignment with reality here, or not at all… Exciting times.
What makes Bolt better than Bekele when Bekele is superior in many more events across a longer span of time? The sport of running consists of every event from running 60 meters to running until your legs fall off, and Bolt by his own admission would lose in an 800m run to the best womens 800m runner.
I definitely agree that to be the GOAT you need both WRs and medals, but having either WRs or medals in a vast range of events over a long period of time weighs higher than having both in one event.
It's much more easy for a distance runner to achieve good results at a variety of distances than for a sprinter. I agree that Bolt "should" have excelled also over 400m, but it's his career.
Who really want's to decide which career was better, Bekele's or Bolt's? Both have good arguments on their side - I maybe would tend to Bekele (most sprint fans might differ).
To you, any point that you aren't in agreement with is "changing the subject". Since the subject is whether or not Jakob fulfils his ambition to be the GOAT I will say it is, so far, and empty boast and unlikely to happen.
Why is it unlikely that an Olympic champion and fourth fastest 1500m time in history, which according to himself is his worst event, can be the GOAT?
There are a lot of other 1500m champions before him who had better times in the context of their era, including being the world record holders. He isn't. He may never be. In a decade or so Jakob's best times could well be surpassed by a bunch of runners.
As a couple of Scottish runners have lately shown, Jakob doesn't dominate the 1500 in the way previous champions have. He has yet to win a WC title.
Although he may think he is better over the 5k he isn't the Olympic champion and he is some distance behind the best times recorded by his competition. The wr is a very long shot. A factor that also needs to be taken into account is that he is injured; he may never be again the runner he was. Nothing is guaranteed in sports.
You don't judge an athlete by the events they DON'T run.
Yes you do, when you argue who the best runner is, not who the best in one event is. A person who can only put up elite times in a handful of distances is not a better runner than a person who can put up elite times in a vast range of distances.
You haven't caught up with the discussion on this thread. It isn't about "elite times" - it is about being the fastest in your era, which includes holding the wr's and the championship titles in your events - to be completely dominant, in other words - the very best. A handful of elite times over a range of events can't match that. Jakob doesn't get near Bolt by that measure.
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Just facts and my personal view what's necessary to become GOAT for him.
What has Ingebrigtsen to achieve more in his career, that you would call him GOAT distance runner, Dumby?
He would have to have an Olympic title over the 5000m (as El G had), he would need to successfully defend his 1500m Olympic title (as Coe did), he would need a handful of WC 1500 titles (as El G did), and he would need to have the world marks for the 1500/mile (as El G did) and the 5k (as Viren and Bekele did). That is the minimum. Ultimately, he has to not only match the very best in history, he has to exceed them - or he is not the GOAT.
Good to see in this short post how utterly stupid this guy is. He has to better the achievements of A in A's events, the achievements of B in B's events and so on...
At least he has made sure that in his world Ingebrigtsen never will be GOAT. That's OK, hate can do a lot.
Top achievements from 1500m to 5k hardly could be enough for me. He needs a 10k Olympic gold. Also a 10k WR definitely would be enough for me.
Viren held the 5k WR for an astonishing 6 days untel broken by 3.4 seconds.
To you, any point that you aren't in agreement with is "changing the subject". Since the subject is whether or not Jakob fulfils his ambition to be the GOAT I will say it is, so far, and empty boast and unlikely to happen.
For sure you are wrong also here. It has nothing to do with not in agreement of subjective things (what's necessary to become GOAT for example).
You have cjanged the subjkect at least 10 times on those last few pages in this thread. Good to see in your latest posts.
You denied the simple statement that Ingebrigtsen's PBs at age 22 are worth much more than Snell's PBs at the same age. You did it with mentioning achievements from Snell he did later in his career.
And it was the same with any single point in this thread. You are just plain stupid. And a pure liar. Nothing new, you act like this since years.
Let's see what Ingebrigtsen can do in the next 10 years.
Snell had a better career than Jakob but at 22 he was not only Olympic champion, he had 3 world records in his specialist events. That puts him ahead of Jakob.
He would have to have an Olympic title over the 5000m (as El G had), he would need to successfully defend his 1500m Olympic title (as Coe did), he would need a handful of WC 1500 titles (as El G did), and he would need to have the world marks for the 1500/mile (as El G did) and the 5k (as Viren and Bekele did). That is the minimum. Ultimately, he has to not only match the very best in history, he has to exceed them - or he is not the GOAT.
Good to see in this short post how utterly stupid this guy is. He has to better the achievements of A in A's events, the achievements of B in B's events and so on...
At least he has made sure that in his world Ingebrigtsen never will be GOAT. That's OK, hate can do a lot.
Top achievements from 1500m to 5k hardly could be enough for me. He needs a 10k Olympic gold. Also a 10k WR definitely would be enough for me.
Viren held the 5k WR for an astonishing 6 days untel broken by 3.4 seconds.
So how does Jakob become the GOAT if he doesn't at least match the achievements of the best in his events if not exceed them? The term GOAT implies - requires - an historical comparison with all the best who have gone before. You are really quite witless.