Ed Cheserek, James Rosa, Marco Langon, Joe Rosa, Jackson Barna
Girls: Angelina Perez, Lilly Shapiro, Emma Zawatski, Charlotte Bednar, Kate Wiser.
what exactly was your source? Norris isn’t even in the top 30. And Pearson isn’t even in the 40.
Incredible job putting all these runners on there over Liquori
Ridiculous.
Liquori who held the Gold Standard at Van Cortlandt Park in 1966. In the early 80s Brad Hudson set the VCP record that lasted 23 years before the course was both changed and paved. The new course barely resembled the one that Brad ran on. Not only did Brad break the VCP record his Junior year, he literally looked like a little kid when he did it!
Marty Liquori sets the high school record of 12:23.2 during the 1966 Eastern States Championships. The record would stand for six years.
Van Cortlandt Park High School - 2.5 Mile Record Progression 1960 Dave Hyland St Peters, NJ 13:09.0 1961 Ted Bendict New Canaan, CT 13:03.2 1962 Jim McDermott Archbishop Molloy, NY 13:01.8 1963 Bill Leahy Catholic Memorial, MA 12:58.6 1964 Pete Randall Stony Brook, NY 12:52.8 1964 Tom Donnelly LaSalle, PA 12:42.2 1964 Pete Randall Stony Brook, NY 12:36.5 1966 Marty Liquori Essex Catholic, NJ 12:23.2 1972 Dave Sandridge Parkdale, MD 12:20.9 1975 Luis Ostolozaga Bishop Loughlin, NY 12:16.4 1983 Brad Hudson North Hunterdon, NJ 12:15.7 2006 Craig Forys Colt Neck, NY 12:10.8
Incredible job putting all these runners on there over Liquori
The job is done through looking at lists. I take this thread to mean the top in terms of fastest times in state championships and course records. As opposed to great runners of their era. I agree Liquori is one of the better NJ past HS XC runners but known more for middle distance. Not listed in the top in current NJ XC ranking or record lists. Sorry
You are both ignorant and wrong. Not only did Liquori set the Gold Standard at Van Cortlandt Park, he was/still the youngest Olympic Finalist in the 1500 meters. 19 years 1 month.
The job is done through looking at lists. I take this thread to mean the top in terms of fastest times in state championships and course records. As opposed to great runners of their era. I agree Liquori is one of the better NJ past HS XC runners but known more for middle distance. Not listed in the top in current NJ XC ranking or record lists. Sorry
You are both ignorant and wrong. Not only did Liquori set the Gold Standard at Van Cortlandt Park, he was/still the youngest Olympic Finalist in the 1500 meters. 19 years 1 month.
You and Liquori guy are wrong. That’s only the VCP record. State champs have been in Holmdel which has records of its own. . And there are other courses with records that these guys didn’t reach. Time moves on and there are more recent records now making the younger generation rise to the TOP and surpass Liquori. You can’t be Top 5 forever. And Malmo, 1500m is not XC. We all know he was an incredible runner after HS. Not what this thread is about
You are both ignorant and wrong. Not only did Liquori set the Gold Standard at Van Cortlandt Park, he was/still the youngest Olympic Finalist in the 1500 meters. 19 years 1 month.
You and Liquori guy are wrong. That’s only the VCP record. State champs have been in Holmdel which has records of its own. . And there are other courses with records that these guys didn’t reach. Time moves on and there are more recent records now making the younger generation rise to the TOP and surpass Liquori. You can’t be Top 5 forever. And Malmo, 1500m is not XC. We all know he was an incredible runner after HS. Not what this thread is about
Holmdel? New Jersey flat out sucks. Get a grip. VCP was THE standard on the East Coast. New Jersey has earned its reputation as the armpit for a reason. It wasn't until they paved the course did anyone beat Brad Hudson's legendary record. Does this look like a crew that strikes fear in the hearts of men? Ed Cheserek, ok there's ONE, the rest are complete nobodies .... James Rosa, Marco Langon, Joe Rosa, Jackson Barna. Only one guy ever did anything. The rest objectively rank in the top none .... Forever. Boo hoo. Holmdel....
John Trautman, Josh McDougal, Nick Ryan, Lopez Lomong, others -Brian Dalpiaz, Ben Petrella, Mike Brannigan
There is no effing way Steve Murdock doesn’t belong on this list. And towards the front of it.
Look,
1. Josh McDougal- VCP 5k record, 4th at FL nats, 205 speed rating. 2. John Trautmann- Saratoga record (14:35), Bear Mountain record (14:24), 2nd at FL nats as a Junior 3. John Gregorek- Sunken Meadow record holder, and won Feds twice I think? 4. Marty Beauchamp- VCP 5k record holder (15:15), 3rd at FL nats 5. Charles Millioen had the Fed record and was 4th behind Ritz, Hall, and Webb at FL nats. (not to mention the others)
Murdock is a NY legend, and I don't think he'd be more than 2-3 seconds behind if they were all at their top, but I don't think I could add him to the top 5.
There is no effing way Steve Murdock doesn’t belong on this list. And towards the front of it.
Look,
1. Josh McDougal- VCP 5k record, 4th at FL nats, 205 speed rating. 2. John Trautmann- Saratoga record (14:35), Bear Mountain record (14:24), 2nd at FL nats as a Junior 3. John Gregorek- Sunken Meadow record holder, and won Feds twice I think? 4. Marty Beauchamp- VCP 5k record holder (15:15), 3rd at FL nats 5. Charles Millioen had the Fed record and was 4th behind Ritz, Hall, and Webb at FL nats. (not to mention the others)
Murdock is a NY legend, and I don't think he'd be more than 2-3 seconds behind if they were all at their top, but I don't think I could add him to the top 5.
Yes but there are younger NY runners that surpassed many of these listed from the past. Sorry but years go by and not all of these still hold true. Someone posted a more accurate list including top runners that made nationals and held course records, and at least 3 of the guys mentioned above are no longer in the top 5. But its nice to hold on to the memories you old bros.
Updating the CT boys, adding Ostberg, removing Coombs. Let's add some credentials. State Open champ is a must. Not sure if we should add track times or if that's irrelevant?
Alex Ostberg - won footlocker NE regional. 9th at Nationals. Donn Cabral - won footlocker NE regional. 8th at Nationals. Gavin Sherry - won footlocker NE regional. 3rd at Nationals. Amby Burfoot John J Kelley
I know of Burfoot and Kelley from their post-high school exploits, but couldn't find anything on their high school accomplishments.
1. California 2. Illinois 3. Michigan 4. Indiana 5. Ohio
Utah’s top-5 arguably doesn’t include two NXN champs (Troutner and Jourdon) and a sub 8:40 two-miler (Evans). Utah is a top-5 state.
Now that you mention it, I think you're right about that. The big 3 from Ohio that I see are Kennedy, Scharsu, and Zishka, but I think you're right that Utah would best them.
There is no effing way Steve Murdock doesn’t belong on this list. And towards the front of it.
Look,
1. Josh McDougal- VCP 5k record, 4th at FL nats, 205 speed rating. 2. John Trautmann- Saratoga record (14:35), Bear Mountain record (14:24), 2nd at FL nats as a Junior 3. John Gregorek- Sunken Meadow record holder, and won Feds twice I think? 4. Marty Beauchamp- VCP 5k record holder (15:15), 3rd at FL nats 5. Charles Millioen had the Fed record and was 4th behind Ritz, Hall, and Webb at FL nats. (not to mention the others)
Murdock is a NY legend, and I don't think he'd be more than 2-3 seconds behind if they were all at their top, but I don't think I could add him to the top 5.
You have McDougal way too high, for one thing. He could focus his whole season on the championship races, since he had no team obligations, yet managed only 4th at FL Nats. Murdock was 3rd at FL Nats (204 SR) the week after winning handily at NTN (202 SR)… the culmination of a 7-week meat-grinder of championship races and qualifiers that by itself was better than McDougal’s entire HS XC career.
Charlie M was really good… but doesn’t belong on this list. Same goes for Meindl.
Btw, it is very hard to compare athletes accross eras because athletes train for and compete at the level of their era. There are athletes like Lingren, Pre, Virgin, Eric Hulst, Reuben Reina, Ritz and Mohamud Abdirizak for example who simply didn't lose and if they competed in this era, they would most likely be just as dominant. A final note, perhaps we put too much emphasis on winning Kenny/Footlocker and NXN. Athletes like Rudy Chapa, Galen Rupp, Ryan Hall, Alberto Salazar, Franklin Sanchez and German Fernandez for example. German Fernandez ran Footlocker with a foot injury and was sick 2 days before, Rupp and Hall simply had bad Footlocker races.
It is really hard to evaluate a lot of the pre footlocker guys. They dominated their region but never races XC outside of it.
For fun, you could take the footlocker results and find the top 7 finishers for every state. Could then try and do speed ratings.
True, but some of those pre-footlocker guys did things in HS, in addition to their XC exploits, that no one in the "nationals" era has done. Gerry Lindgren ran 8:40 indoors for two miles (a HS record that stood for 49 years!) and won the US Olympic Trials 10,000 (over the to-be Olympic champion) as a HS senior. He is the greatest HS distance runner ever. Rudy Chapa ran 28:32 for 10,000 meters -- no HSer has ever come close. As another poster notes, multiple 1970s HSers won World Junior XC titles. Those guys absolutely could hold their own against any HS XC runner from any era. People of a more recent "vintage' talk about the fabulous 2001 class of Ritzenheim, Webb, and Hall, but 1976 had Chapa, Eric Hulst (World Junior XC champion), Thom Hunt (2nd in WJR XC that year, 1st the following year as a college freshman), and Alberto Salazar (5th in WJR XC).
I think John & Matt would be joined by Aidan Cox & Eric Jenkins.
#5....Francis Hernandez? Russell Brown? someone obvious I'm missing?
Mortimer, Downin, Thorne, and Cox would be a pretty easy top 4 for me, after that it gets tougher. Moskowitz, O'Brien, LaCoste, Majak would be my top candidates for a 5th, and i would probably go Moskowitz for his track times (8:44 4:09). Jenkins is more notable for what he did after HS.
For girls XC, I'd start with Schiro, Gaughan, Griffin, Robitaille, Doody. I dont know all that much about pre 2000 for the state.
Didnt Matt Downin's brother Andy almost qualify for footlocker as a soccer player?
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