I don't understand. She ran 4 x mile with hard stops, not a tempo effort where you lock in. She was able to run all 4 within a range of 5 seconds. Horrible pacing? It doesn't get better than that.
I don't understand. She ran 4 x mile with hard stops, not a tempo effort where you lock in. She was able to run all 4 within a range of 5 seconds. Horrible pacing? It doesn't get better than that.
Queen of the World wrote:
I don't understand. She ran 4 x mile with hard stops, not a tempo effort where you lock in. She was able to run all 4 within a range of 5 seconds. Horrible pacing? It doesn't get better than that.
Watch the workout, it was horrible pacing. First 400 at 67-71, 800 at 4:40 to sub 4::40 pace, then slowly dies the last 800. A good coach wants it paced out like a race, not dying at the last half of each rep. Bottom line, anyone with a brain would take Dudek and Starliper over her in a race. Also, Brown was the last elite runner to run a solo/race before everything shut down. Brown ran 3200m in 9:58, Dudek for 3200m weeks before ran 9:56, and Starliper after running a solo effort at Millrose with a 4:37 mile (4th fastest all time), came back the following week with a 9:07 3000m which converts to a 9:47 3200m. Brown had all those extra weeks of training, just imagine what Starliper and Dudek would have done with all those extra weeks.
I dont know. I haven't seen their workouts. But Brown's workouts, including the 9:39 in practice, indicate a 9:29 and 15:25.
Does it occur to you that the point of the workout could possibly be to get better at getting out fast from the start? If anything it makes the workout more impressive. Your argument that running too fast at any point in the race yet still getting a goal time is not good just doesn’t make sense. That’s like saying Tim Cheruiyot had a crappy race in Lausanne and Monaco, even in Doha, because he went out ridiculously quick. Yet he ran 3:28. What gives?
She probably is not thinking about it, but if she gets any faster, she can can bypass college running. She is in 15:25 shape right now. If she gets down to 15:15, somebody will pay for her college while she is not wearing a college uniform.
7empest, I just watched the video. My opinion is this is exactly what a national class high school junior would race like - it shows unbelievable grit and fitness. She is what we term a blue-chip athlete, getting the most of herself in poor conditions (one teammate on a lonely track).
Racing is a skill she has almost perfected, which is why she was able to run a high school record in training. My knowledge of her is that she has never lost to an athlete in the state of Texas, which happens to be one of the most competitive for girls in the country.
Brynn Brown, 9:39 is no joke.
FWIW I plugged her 4xmile session into the Purdy Tables, which are a time-tested system for generating workouts, and that performance was assigned to a level of 9:20 for two miles. She is definitely one of, if not THE most aerobically strong high school girls of all time. And yes that includes Tuohy.
Very impressive time. Not discussed is in a time trial you can run lane one for the entire distance. It's a rare 3200m race where the waterfall starter in lane one manages to lead the entire race. Usually there is some passing, running in lane two or even swinging wide down the homestretch, in other words, extra distance run during a race.
https://youtu.be/tknXRyUEJtUQueen of the World wrote:
I dont know. I haven't seen their workouts. But Brown's workouts, including the 9:39 in practice, indicate a 9:29 and 15:25.
Majority of everyone on this thread is like the media talking to Allen Iverson: “we’re talking about practice, practice man, we’re talking about practice!” Ridiculous. We are talking about Brown and practice, someone who has done nothing in a big race. She has not won a big race (and don’t say Nike Regionals since that region is a joke with no elite runners). Easy ass course as well like all the short, flat, dirt track courses in Texas!!!!!
Practice, we’re talking about practice, not a race, but practice!!!!!?????? You all sound stupid crowning her the queen and saying she is better than Tuohy and all the other elite runners in the class of 2020! Shameful and disrespectful of all those girls who actually perform in races, not practice!!!!!
Jeljo wrote:
7empest, I just watched the video. My opinion is this is exactly what a national class high school junior would race like - it shows unbelievable grit and fitness. She is what we term a blue-chip athlete, getting the most of herself in poor conditions (one teammate on a lonely track).
Racing is a skill she has almost perfected, which is why she was able to run a high school record in training. My knowledge of her is that she has never lost to an athlete in the state of Texas, which happens to be one of the most competitive for girls in the country.
Brynn Brown, 9:39 is no joke.
Oh, the self proclaimed D1 coach, what a joke! If you were you would know Texas sucks when it comes to GIRLS running. All the best competition comes from the Northeast, Midwest, and California.
7empest wrote:
Jeljo wrote:
7empest, I just watched the video. My opinion is this is exactly what a national class high school junior would race like - it shows unbelievable grit and fitness. She is what we term a blue-chip athlete, getting the most of herself in poor conditions (one teammate on a lonely track).
Racing is a skill she has almost perfected, which is why she was able to run a high school record in training. My knowledge of her is that she has never lost to an athlete in the state of Texas, which happens to be one of the most competitive for girls in the country.
Brynn Brown, 9:39 is no joke.
Oh, the self proclaimed D1 coach, what a joke! If you were you would know Texas sucks when it comes to GIRLS running. All the best competition comes from the Northeast, Midwest, and California.
By the way Brown would not even have one state title right now if she raced in NY, PA, MI, IL, or California
She is the best. Way ahead of Tuohy now. Forget what she ran months ago or last year. People improve or Schweizer and Houlihan would still be running 10 minutes for 3000. This is not basketball practice. This is running which has objective metrics. Dahbach ran 3:59. Whether you saw it or not, you would sign him to run on your college team. Running a time trial in practice in 9:39 with male pacers, still don't need to watch the video to see how she looked. But recruiting somebody who has great basketball practices? You would want to watch a bunch of film to see how he dribbles and shoots and runs. The clock does not lie. So the calculator says that Brown's workout puts her at 9:20. Then that is what I would expect she can run in a race. Records will get smashed next year.
I am sure you are being respectful. She has the #3 All-Time Underclassman 2 Mile Record in American History. #Learn the Sport.
2 MILES
9:38.68i *Mary Cain (Bronxville, New York) 2013
9:51.05i *Katelyn Tuohy (North Rockland, Thiells, New York) 2019
9:51.29+ ————**Tuohy 2018
9:51.35 Brie Oakley (Grandview, Centennial, Colorado) 2017
9:52.01+ Kim Mortensen (Thousand Oaks, California) 1996
9:53.00 Ericka VanderLende (Rockford, Michigan) 2019
9:53.54 Bethan Knights’ (Northwood, Irvine, California) 2014
9:54.22 Aisling Cuffe (Cornwall, New Windsor, New York) 2011
9:54.95 Camila Noe (Bozeman, Montana) 2018
9:55.05 **Hannah DeBalsi (Staples, Westport, Connecticut) 2014
**10 performances by 9 performers**
9:55.46+ **Katelynne Hart (Glenbard West, Glen Ellyn, Illinois) 2018
9:57.33 **Brynn Brown (Denton Guyer, Denton, Texas) 2019
Well technically Hart ran 9:56.13 at the same meet. Vanderlande ran 9:53.
Have you found anyone that fits my criteria? Tempest you make look as well. Until then I consider this conversation as brown has proven she is a 9:39 runner. End of discussion
Jeljo wrote:
My knowledge of her is that she has never lost to an athlete in the state of Texas,
Completely false. She lost to multiple girls in Texas as a FR and SO. It is true that she did not lose to any Texas girls during her JR year (this year).
cheesewiz wrote:
Have you found anyone that fits my criteria? Tempest you make look as well. Until then I consider this conversation as brown has proven she is a 9:39 runner. End of discussion
I just checked the MileSplit data base, Brown is a 9:58 runner, and #18 on the all time list. End of discussion!!!! I’m not talking about practice anymore. This conversation is getting stupid and boring. Tuohy is the best Outdoor Track 3200m runner in high school history until someone can step up on the line in a race and take her down! Those are the facts and what history says right now. Good luck to all runners until next year and we will see if Brown can stay healthy enough to toe the line and actually do it in a race unassisted, not practice. 7empest is going to go spiral out with some Tool!
Didn't Aschbrenner just do exactly that?
I know a girl who ran 10:18 in a real meet but Milesplit lists her best as 10:32 so that isn't the ultimate authority. Maybe we should contact them to add Brown's time. You would then discredit them and move onto some other way to downplay this girl's accomplishment. You will be unhappy next year when she wipes out Tuohy and Cain from the record boards.
alright I'm just getting to the point where I'm done with both sides.
The time trial definitely sped her up for what a time trial could do, but it was probably close to a competitive race time.
My predictions for the start of next track season would be around a 9:53 or so solo, getting faster and faster as the season goes on. Once at the nationals level with real competition, then times like that one will probably go down.
But at this point, we have no way of knowing if any other girls could do this, they haven't shown us they can, but they also haven't shown they can't.