50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

I got in 32 miles in 6 days this week of mostly easy running. By the end of the week I finally was starting to feel like the effects of the virus I got three weeks ago were going away. Back to 50 miles is the goal for next week.

Ran 13.6 miles yesterday.

My half marathon is 3/23 - The Southern Illinois Spring Classic.

Then my full marathon is 4/6 The Soouthern Indiana Classic.

Art

http://fitatfifty-art.blogspot.com/

Expecting some good Masters time coming out of that great California spring weather.

Two parts for me: the summary and the details.

A good week to all!

Summary:

Chemo went well until the last day then I hit an unexplained wall. Got re-admitted to hospital after passing out at home with low blood pressure. EKGs good, CT scan - no blood clots, so they kept giving me saline, which I protested after 7 days of continuous saline as I felt electrolytes were diluted, which some were. Finally home after 9 days! Feel near normal yesterday & today.

Details: most likely for Mike Lundgren and any cancer survivors who might be following these posts.

Sun  Pre-exercise BP 128/71, HR 50

5 minute levels:

50 RPMs @ 1KP, RPE 3, BP 124/65, HR 93

60RPMs @ 1KP, RPE 4, BP 124/60, HR 98

70 RPMs @ 1KP, RPE 4.5, BP 125/63, HR 101

80 RPMs @ 1KP, RPE 5, BP 130/48, HR 112

80 RPMs @ 1.5 KP, RPE 6, BP 146/68, HR 126

80 RPMs @ 1.5 KP, RPE 6.5, BP 140/68, HR 131

85 RPMs @ 1.5 KP, RPE 7, BP 163/59, HR 133

On the Monarch bicycle ergometer I felt very slow at lower KP levels, good at the 80 RPMs at 1.5 KP.  I suspect my max HR is higher than aged adjusted, and that my RPE follows closely my ventilatory & lactate thresholds, as I didn't feel like I reached either at RPE of 7 but was getting close on most exercise days near the end of the work bout.

Mon 30+ min bike most @ 1.5 KP and 80 RPMs after warm-up of 5 min at 1 KP & 70 RPMs then 5 min @ 1KP & 80 RPMs.

Tue no exercise, low blood pressure incident in a.m., no cardio problems & no CT scan blood clots detected. Rituxin infusion in afternoon, discharged early evening.

Wed no exercise, readmitted for low blood pressure, walked across room & rested - repeated throughout the day. Poor sleep, neuropathy discomfort.

Thur no exercise, walked hallways, blood pressure coming up, discharged in late afternoon. Poor sleep, neuropathy discomfort & reflux.

Fri walked 1.36 miles on treadmill at 2.7 mph & 0% grade (30 minutes), felt ok, HR ~ 60-65% age adjusted HR max.

Sat walked 2 miles on treadmill, total time 31:04, felt a lot better than yesterday, highest level 4 mph & 4% grade, aHRmax ~ 60-70%, RPE ~ 6.5 @ highest level. Good sleep after 200 mg. Lyrica for neuropathy & Nexium for significant reflux.

Sun walked 2 miles on treadmill, total time 30:00, increase elevation every 5:00 up to 5%, 4 mph entire time. Decent sleep. aHRmax about 70-75% last level, RPE ~ 6. Feel nearly normal.

[quote]Mike Lundgren wrote:

Ken, you are showing great spirit, tenacity and creativeness. I am impressed. It would be interesting to have someone doing a film documentary of your efforts. I am also imagining you in a hospital gown (flapping open in back) while spinning away on the bike, and that BP cuff on your arm :) That'd show cancer who's in charge, right? Hope my "off the cuff" humor doesn't offend, you are certainly showing cancer what it's up against when it faces a world class warrier doing battle with it.

No problem Mike! Humor is rampant among the cancer survivors I know. The psyche ward cycling still makes me laugh!

A reporter for the Indianapolis Star interviewed me and took photos plus video of me on the bike in the hospital. Not sure when the article will come out but I will send the post to Weldon first in case he wants to link it, if not I'll link it on here.

I shaved my head preemptively but the hair is still there, hope tough hair is a good sign!

I posted the cycling photos on the WorkOut Cancer Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/WorkoutCancer.org

Cheers!

Week 93: 12 hours 56 minutes in 11 runs with 3 of them workouts.

Mon sleep 6.5 hours resting HR 43.

AM - run easy 46 minutes 51 seconds no GPS (call it 8 km) plus 14:45 walk warmup plus 2:56 walk cooldown.

PM - run easy 45:00 treadmill (8.3 km), plus 5:00 walk wu plus 5:00 walk cd, plus Weights 45 mins.

Tue sleep 6 hrs RHR 45.

AM - run 1:33:58 (17.0 km) with 7x 800m in 3:06 (peak HR 157), 3:16 (159), 3:13 (159), 3:23 (160), 3:23 (157), 3:24 (164), 3:15 (162) plus 15:02 walk wu plus 2:57 walk cd. The even numbered reps were into the wind. Rep five I tried to hold back a little but I guess I held back too much.

PM - run easy to the gym 45:53 no GPS (2.2 km plus 5x 1.27 km in 6:42, 6:32, 6:26, 6:21, 6:14), no walking, plus Core/stretching routune 1 hr, then run easy home 12:59 (2.2 km), no walking. I did the laps in the park by effort and looked up the times on the watch later, looks like I did them just right. I had to talk myself out of doing strides at the end.

Wed sleep 6.5 hrs RHR 43.

AM - run easy 46:42 no GPS (call it 8 km) plus 15:03 walk wu plus 5:18 walk cd.

PM - no running, Yoga 1.5 hrs.

Thu sleep 4 hrs RHR 43.

AM - run easy 1:30:54 (16.4 km) average HR 128 peak HR 140 plus 15:01 walk wu plus 7:05 walk cd.

PM - exact same as Monday PM: treadmill with wu and cd, Weights.

Fri sleep 6.5 hrs RHR 43.

AM - run easy 46:53 no GPS (call it 8 km) plus 15:40 walk wu plus 2:54 walk cd.

PM - run 1:15:00 treadmill (14.6 km) with 16:15 @7:13/mile and 3:45 @7:08/mile, plus 5:00 walk wu plus 5:00 walk cd, plus Core/stretching routine 1 hr. Neglected to pack the HR monitor in the gym bag for the tempo run, oops.

Sat sleep 5 hrs RHR 47.

AM - run long 3:00:00 exact (32.6 km), average HR 131 (started around 118 and finished around 141), plus 18:14 walk cd. Ran mostly with the 9:00/mile pace group but threw in 2x strides (4:50 for the km, peak HR 154) and 8 km solo @4:59-5:23, average HR 143. Notable: On Friday I deviated from the tried-and-true nutrition plan, on Saturday I was fine for the first two hours but really suffered GI-wise the third hour, which of course included most of the faster running.

PM - nothing.

Sun sleep 10.5 hrs RHR 42.

AM - run easy 47:07 no GPS (call it 8 km), out in 24:47 back in 22:10 with 1x steep hill sprint (greater than 50% grade, less than 5 seconds), plus 15:03 walk wu plus 14:49 walk cd.

PM - no running, Yoga 1.5 hrs (okay I haven't done the Yoga yet but it is guaranteed).

I gave all the details for a change in case anyone wonders what 12 hours of running looks like. 139 km was slightly hard but well within my capabilities, I actually could have done more, and feel pretty fresh today. The schedule I have laid out is to do three easier weeks that look like week 92, in between those do two harder weeks that look like week 93 (but with additional reps on Tuesdays), then taper for two weeks.

WOC wrote:

I suspect my max HR is higher than aged adjusted, ...

You have referenced this before. What is an "age adjusted max HR"?

Alan,

220 - age, then use percentage from that number.

For me, 220 - 54 = 166

90% ~ 150 beats per minute (bpm)

80% ~ 132 bpm

70 % ~ 116 bpm

60 % ~ 100 bpm

I don't think it is as precise on me and other long term runners/exercisers, I prefer Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE). There are other heart rate formulas, Karvonen (heart rate reserve) which are a little different but pretty close, except for the lower percents it seems:

http://www.briancalkins.com/HeartRate.htm

It gives me a guide & is something for a few researchers to view when I send them my data.

I generally lurk more than post on this thread, but reading the inspiring posts from my fellow "oldies but goodies" puts a little spring into my step. And for those of you battling injury or illness, much love and luck to you. I am coming back from a calf tear in late January. I was in a walking boot for 3 weeks and then had to struggle through PT but I am jogging and have begun to mix in some easy strides. Doing a lot of strength work in order to bring the injured calf up to par with the other one. The elliptical is my new best friend. Looking forward to the outdoor season. Keep posting that good stuff!

Ken, I seem to remember you used a treadmill for a lot of your marathon prep back when we were all younger. Do you feel that enables you to mentally engage your current program? Would a person without a history of running indoors be as likely to duplicate the bike/ treadmill/ infusion routine?

Somewhat sluggish week for me. 52 miles. I'll give it a C.

SUN: 11 miles @ 8:40

MON: 5 on TM at intentional 10 mm pace. Was tired

TUE: 6 miles, fartlek

WED AM: 5.8 relaxing run that wasn't

WED PM: 5 with no watch

THR: 12x200 averaged :41-low

FRI: Off

SAT: 14.3 @ 9:05 pace. Went out solo and ran into a couple of guys I know and ended up longer and slower than intended.

Next week is a down week. Going to get rested and ready for Azalea Trail 10K on Saturday.

@Alan Bennett Thanks for posting up RHR and sleep hours. I log those numbers everyday. At the start of the year I started recording bed time. Poor Richard may have been right about "Early to bed..."

@Art I cringe when I hear or read someone refer to "my marathon" I don't think we own the distance at all.

@lucky, Et al. I flipped tabs to the road marks on the Masters Standards... talk about soft!

Thanks, I've seen the various calculations for max HR, I thought you might be doing some post-adjustment on the max...

Summer 2010 I read up on the internet, got the heart monitor. Read Joe Friels's book, I believe the title was Total Heart Rate Training, not sure since I loaned it out and never got it back. Read John L Parker's book, Heart Monitor Training for the Compleat Idiot (2nd edition). I can recommend that one.

In 2010 at age 49 the formula gave 171. I hopped on the treadmill for a self test and topped out at 185. A month later I was tested in a lab at 175 (Parker said the lab number would be low). The lower max number didn't bother me, the one I cared about was HR at lactate threshold, which I couldn't figure out on my own. A month after that I hit 177 on a hill in a 20k, and a month after that I ran the 2nd half of a half marathon at average 172. Not saying the lab test was "wrong", but something doesn't add up.

Haven't cared to retest myself, RPE and/or McMillan's and/or Daniels's training paces work fine for me.

Alan,

I suspect my max HR may be higher than formulated, as you found out on your tests. Unfortunately when I did the max VO2 test last Nov. the leads for the heart rate monitor would not stay stuck on, so we didn't get any HR numbers.

I used the Garmin on the treadmill a number of weeks back and I felt really comfortable at about 150+ HR and was surprised that would of been close to 90% as per aRHmax. Could of been cancer affect cause I felt comfortable.

I'll be getting my submax test results back soon, a delay from the Nov test. Apparently I was economical at the slow paces but not near max. No surprise to me since my hamstrings were bothering me at the time and faster paces even more so.

It is still cold here so walking outside is a challenge for my hands, plus I'm hovering around 140 lbs with very little body fat so the cold really gets to me. I can crank the Bose ipod docking station in our basement and stay warm, so inside on the treadmill suits me right now but I look forward to walking outside. The only problem is I don't know when I'll be able to do that since I'm not sure about low blood counts and any air borne dangers for me. I'm most likely headed for the transplant in May with the important 100 days post-transplant taking up my summer. I don't want to be in isolation for long and would like to be able to enjoy walking in the summer but we'll see.

When I lived in Santa Fe I ran up hills every morning & most afternoons. I drove an hour to the UNM track 3 x's a week so for my long runs I didn't want to beat myself up on the hills around Santa Fe, and I din't want to make a long morning out of driving somewhere for a long run so I used the treadmill as a comfortable long run. I wanted to get the time/distance on my legs at 7,000 feet and practice drinking. A good stereo system helped the run go well, I'd get up to 6:00 pace by mile three and cruise that or go sub 6:00 as I got more fit.

MikeF is in the March Competitor, "100,000-Mile Checkup: San Francisco's Mike Fanelli still going strong after all these years" by TJ Murphy, pages 11-12. I searched "mike fanelli site:competitor.com -ivan" and found this mention, only tangentially about MikeF but still interesting:

http://running.competitor.com/2011/05/features/once-a-running-shoe-salesman_28662

Not too much to report from me.

A few sessions on the kyak and the mtn bike. My crunched ankle was still a bit bruised and swollen to start the week. I did a solid session of hiking with a weighted pack and the poles over some hilly trails early in the week and this loosened it up a bit. Thursday, 2 weeks since crunching it, I went out for my first tentative run. Just a very gentle jog around the Rochester golf course, about 20 slooow minutes of plodding.

Friday I managed to shuffle around a 4k trail loop in a slow 25 mins but it felt much better. Saturday I "ran" a hilly 9km trail loop in 53 mins and it felt better again. Sunday I ran 2 x 5km trail loops. First one as a gentle 9 x 3 mins with 30 sec walks, second lap as 8 x 3 mins with 30 sec walks. Again it felt improved.

Tonight (monday) I ran 12 x 400m on the golf course starting at 2.20 for the first 2 but finishing off at around 1.50. This was just to test the ankle at it's normal range of motion. Still some stiffness but it felt pretty good.

Edgewood,

Sorry, the treadmill stuff was meant for you.

An oncologist's recommendation would be more likely to get a cancer patient on a bike or treadmill, during infusion or not, but that is occurring infrequently - only about 10 % of the time!

During infusion, I think, will be the last time period investigated. There are a lot of different drugs going into patients so cardiac considerations and co-morbidities (other diseases & conditions) will have to be evaluated first. My experience makes me cautious but hopeful, my blood counts seem to rebound quickly and daily I get better with exercise, which I think is a bood barometer for recovery from the treatment. But there really isn't any study to compare my results to, I'll have to find people online who have done something similar.

This is the only exercise during infusion study I know of:

https://meetinglibrary.asco.org/content/41990-74

Yes, I think my previous times on treadmill does helps me now.

Ken

In the mail today I received my first ever solicitation for a burial plot. So I just made a new goal: to outlive the cemetary manager who signed her name to the letter....

Hey Kevin, We raced at Lisle in the 800/1500. I've been hurt the past month with adductor issues, hope to startup again in a few weeks. I've been riding an elliptigo bike so I'm staying somewhat in shape. No pain on the elliptigo. Anxious to get back on the track.

New around here. Just replied to a post from 2 years ago!

A whirlwind of ups and downs over the past couple weeks.

My son raced junior national championships for xc skiing and got a 1st in the relay for his age bracket and a top 5 and top 10 in individual races. Wow talk about a breakthrough week! Thrilling.

I raced a 20K classic on Sunday and got 2nd overall, feeling pretty good.

Now the not so great stuff.

Alas, the weather has turned cold again and we're mostly in the single digits. Turn up the heat someone!

Had worst skate race ever last week; -17 below windchills probably were a factor, not to mention 10 days post marathon.

Seem to have developed a slight cold, leading up to this week's 50K. Not good but plan to give it the good fight, unless things go bad.

Other than that looking forward to spring, track, and warmer temps.

Got a day off, then another 6 days of work, so catching up. Had about 30 miles last week, with a couple steady, solid runs, but no track and no distance. Then my calf cramped during an attempt at 10 miles, and had to stop at 7.5. The next day I had my first acupuncture treatment, and so was able to run 5 good miles the next day. Had some cramping in it at work after that run, but hope to go again today. Solid runs for me are to get the total run under 9 min/mile, but with a couple miles continuous at/under 8:30. It's been cold here, and more snow forecast this weekend!

Ken, When fatigue is a fairly constant factor, how do you balance what you are able to do throughout your day besides the 1/2 hour of exercise? I don't mean to pry, but it appears that you aren't pressured about returning to work demands and/or keeping insurance paid. That would seem to help you with your focus on getting exercise and cancer treatments more integrated. How do you plan outdoor exercise, when it's not cold? I know there's the wonderful city park west of Indy, but do you regularly wear a face mask of some sort, or only early after chemo, or just with pollen season, or??? You might have mentioned before, but what do you try to do nutritionally, and do you take supplements? Are you able to do any light weight work at home? Able find ways to stimulate your appetite? I hope that somehow a book/kindle/movie can be developed here. So much to learn from you about facing the ultimate challenges!