LYDIARD OR DANIELS?

HRE,

I tried to email you however; the email bounced back...

Wetcoast wrote:

HRE,

I tried to email you however; the email bounced back...

Try it on this message. The one you probably tried replying to is missing the "c" in aol.com.

Snookie your the man...what a sweet thread. Does anyone know the record thread? This has to be getting close.

done

This is such a great thread, i've just been reading back.

One thing that made me think hard was the information that Lydiard also worked from the speed end upwards. It's always the simplest answer that proves true and i think the answer here could be this. Balance.

Yes, sorry, 1:44.3 was the time on the grass track. (The memory is the first thing to go...). Dr. Darren - Please forgive my misstep there. Still, very impressive run and well documented.

From Wikipedia:

"Snell's former world records of 1 minute 44.3 seconds for 800 m, set on 3 February 1962, and 2 minutes 16.6 seconds for 1000 m set on 12 November 1964, remain the New Zealand national records for these distances [1].

Snell's 800 m time from 1962 remains the fastest ever run over that distance on a grass track. It is also the oldest national record recognized by the IAAF for a standard track and field event."

Snell himself tends to downplay the fact that it was on grass, because he says it was an excellent running surface. Nevertheless, it was a heck of a run for 1962. My only point was that Lydiard's training approach obviously can work for some 800 meter athletes.

And yes Kaching, right on, Arthur himself said it's all about the proper balance between aerobic and anaerobic development. His athletes "did something about their speed" all year 'round.

Well done HRE. I spent some time with the great Bill Baillie (Kim Stevenson's buddy) at his place in Auckland and he told me an interesting story. He said the highlight of his career occurred when he was racing in Czechoslovakia (thank God for Spellcheck) and was invited to the home of his hero, Zatopek. They sat around drinking tea, telling stories and talking training. Bill said that Zatopek told him his big interval sessions were often run at a pace that was well within his aerobic limits. He simply liked breaking up the runs into sections. Of course, he sometimes ran them very hard too, but the point, according to Bill, was that Emil was actually building up the aerobic side through many moderately paced repeats with short rest intervals. Of course, after Zatopek's incredible success, many track athletes went a bit interval-crazy and started doing them almost every day, but, perhaps, some were missing that key piece of information. Again, Lydiard brought balance back into the equation.

The other highlight of Bill's career was when he wiped Zatopek's last 2 remaining world records from the books - the 1 hour and 20k marks in 1963.

I've thought that doing steady runs over the hilly sort of terrain they have in New Zealand might be like doing fartlek or easy intervals on flat terrain. Maybe what Zatopek was doing wasn't all that different from what Arthur's guys did.

Now let's see if I can get this onto the board with fewer than ten re-posts.

I'd be intereted to know what that hilly terrain is really like. Is the Wiat...ta...ta...era how you pronounce it, gently rolling, with large rollers or are there a lot of long climbs.

I have a routes here, although not for 20 milers, more for 8 - 12 miles but have significant climbs, where I think we are replicating some of the work done during the hill phase.

The steep downs are pain though.

Hotlanta Master wrote:

Dr. Darren - Please forgive my misstep there.

Haha! Wow. ;)

Wetcoast :The name Waiatarua is Maori (our indigenous people named it) you pronounce it WHYA-TA-ROOA.

Lots of \\\'little\\\' hills, one big one on West Coast Road !!

Kim,

Thanks for that. My running friends and I talk 'Lydiard' perpetually, we have an acronym for solving training questions WWiLD + What Would Lydiard Do?

Or more accurately, what do we think he would recommend.

Where we are at apprently is quite similar to NZ...

We have been mis-pronouncing 'Waiatarua' WHY-A-TOO-RA, sacra-lyd!

W

Jon Brown's presentation from Victoria? Can someone post information or link to the website of the club who hosted the event. I'm very interested in reading Jon's remarks.

I would like to add that when a Kiwi like Kim says "hilly," BELIEVE IT. I have run the Waiatarua (2:10!), as has Nobby and it is VERY tough. The one big hill Kim refers to climbs 1200 vertical feet over a few miles. It is long series of switchbacks up a paved mountain road. After you reach the top, you have several big ups and downs to soften you up some more. The last one, as Nobby has mentioned, is known as "rubber legs" for reasons that become quite obvious when you get there. A weekly run on that course would certainly contribute something special to your conditioning.

Runbird,

I kinda hosted it myself, sorta...but my running club is pretty Rock n roll....and have hosted other good speakers etc. Jon is also a member of this club.

You can hear Jon and Nobby speak on a couple of podcasts from two radio interviews that I set up for them.

I think the interviews are both up at facebook. If you go to facebook dot com and type into the search bar 'Arthur Lydiard' a group pops up.

You can check out links and things there and join the group too - it's an open group, so you just need to click on 'Join this group'.

Keep in mind these interviews were leading up to the clinic, whereas at the clinic he said a couple of things that were not in the interviews - dang ! should have recorded the clinic too.

One key thing reiterated in one of Nobby's recent posts in this thread about Gandy getting the already fast Brown to pb at every distance, by training Lydiard style...or something to that effect.

Also minimalist shoes or lightwieght trainers, flats etc are used and NOT the heavy shoe that Americans tend to market and sell and buy. Apparently Lydiard called Plantar Fasciitis 'American shoe disease' because his athletes didn't get PF, yet they ran the big miles - so Jon, Rod, Nobby and a top race walker/medallist Arturo Huerta and another fastee Paul O' Callaghan (13:25 5k) all concurred, that the big heavy shoe is not what these guys train in, rather the lighwieght stuff.

The benefit training in the light, non supportive shoe is the development of all the muscles and soft tissue in the foot, ankle area, where the big heavy shoe stops natural movement, therefore causing the foot to not get development...hence injuries like PF and perhaps rolling off unnaturally perhpas causing other lower leg issues....I could TOTALLY see what they were saying and showing with a shoe where the support is akin to the chaos theory...digressing....digressing....

that for now.

Great. What is the link for the information, podcasts and club membership?

On the CBC ram file, so you will need real Player, which you may download from Google for free.

I am looking for the CFAX one...

I switched to racing flats (!) and developed PF. What the...? I have PF pains pretty much all the time now and, if I run in flats, it just gets worse. I'm stretching and doing the golf ball and all that, too.

Granted I'm past fifty, which may have something to do with it.

Yank wrote:

I switched to racing flats (!) and developed PF. What the...? I have PF pains pretty much all the time now and, if I run in flats, it just gets worse. I'm stretching and doing the golf ball and all that, too.

Granted I'm past fifty, which may have something to do with it.

Don't you think you should switch back?