She isn't coached by David, but she's been on the Freetrail podcast and gave a pretty thorough walk through of all of it for whatever that's worth. Interesting for sure
Megan is her coach, I thought. Under the SWAP umbrella.
Roach man teased a 4 min mile on the latest pod… but of course it didn’t happen. Because he can’t do it.
What’s the world record for someone his age? He’s old but not quite a masters right?
He's 37, so he's 3 years-ish away from being a master runner. However, they may start to distinguish records after 35 years old. Lagat holds these records, at 3:51 and 3:54 (I think). I actually find it irksome when he talks about his age.
What’s the world record for someone his age? He’s old but not quite a masters right?
He's 37, so he's 3 years-ish away from being a master runner. However, they may start to distinguish records after 35 years old. Lagat holds these records, at 3:51 and 3:54 (I think). I actually find it irksome when he talks about his age.
In what context does he talk about his age? I know he mentions the Leadville record but my understanding is that the previous record was held by a 41 year old (at time of race) - so he beat an old masters record? I know it’s the legendary Matt, but he was old.
He's 37, so he's 3 years-ish away from being a master runner. However, they may start to distinguish records after 35 years old. Lagat holds these records, at 3:51 and 3:54 (I think). I actually find it irksome when he talks about his age.
In what context does he talk about his age? I know he mentions the Leadville record but my understanding is that the previous record was held by a 41 year old (at time of race) - so he beat an old masters record? I know it’s the legendary Matt, but he was old.
He talks about his age and he’s getting old for western. Which isn’t too objectionable. There may come a point where a 40 year old can’t win western states.
I just wish Leadville wasn't in such a bad time spot so an elite high caliber runner who won't drop out when things get tough would actually run it. Probably drop 30 minutes or more on the record.
David brought high carb fueling to the mainstream. Thank god for him and the feed. Everyone here should be applauding this man. This thread is asinine x50.
He most certainly did not. High carb fuelling (>100g/hr) has been around for a very long time. What he (and many other high profile athletes) did was use his platform to distort and exaggerate the science behind high carb intake during exercise to make money for himself and for his sponsor. Lying to the community he claims to love in order to line his own pockets is sociopathic behaviour and not something we ought to be applauding. He's done the same thing for many other supplements and gadgets. Roche and his fellow influencers are the least reliable source of unbiased scientific information on the internet.
If he had an honest bone in him what he would have said is that elite athletes tolerate high carb intake not because carbs are magic, but because their metabolic systems are highly developed. Copying their intake without having the same capacity is not advanced: it is premature and often unhealthy. High intra-workout fueling has its place, but only if you earn it first by building real work capacity. This is where “science-based” advice fails and becomes pseudoscience: it ignores readiness. High intake is not a goal. It is a consequence of mitochondrial capacity. Without that capacity, more fuel does not mean more performance: it means stress.
Moreover, what the research has found is that very high intakes do not improve performance. Even if you are able to digest, absorb and oxidise 120g/hr, all that happens is the muscles respond by oxidising less fat and more carbs. There is no glycogen sparing (and in fact, some studies have found that very high carb intakes may increase muscle glycogen depletion). So it's a pointless exercise. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul!
In ultra running - and it's mostly ultra runners who pay attention to Roche - exercise intensity is so low that you're using fat preferentially. So why risk gastro problems in an ultra by forcing down large volumes of carbs when there is literally no need to do so?
You’re right, Nikki! what bothers me about Roche is he claimed ultra runners of the early 2000s (when I ran them) only ate “ a few bites” during races, even claiming that while featuring pics of Scott Jurek, Matt Carpenter, and Ann Trason. He’s misrepresenting the truth as all three of them (along with many others, including me) ate a decent amount during ultras. He’s a fraud.
He most certainly did not. High carb fuelling (>100g/hr) has been around for a very long time. What he (and many other high profile athletes) did was use his platform to distort and exaggerate the science behind high carb intake during exercise to make money for himself and for his sponsor. Lying to the community he claims to love in order to line his own pockets is sociopathic behaviour and not something we ought to be applauding. He's done the same thing for many other supplements and gadgets. Roche and his fellow influencers are the least reliable source of unbiased scientific information on the internet.
If he had an honest bone in him what he would have said is that elite athletes tolerate high carb intake not because carbs are magic, but because their metabolic systems are highly developed. Copying their intake without having the same capacity is not advanced: it is premature and often unhealthy. High intra-workout fueling has its place, but only if you earn it first by building real work capacity. This is where “science-based” advice fails and becomes pseudoscience: it ignores readiness. High intake is not a goal. It is a consequence of mitochondrial capacity. Without that capacity, more fuel does not mean more performance: it means stress.
Moreover, what the research has found is that very high intakes do not improve performance. Even if you are able to digest, absorb and oxidise 120g/hr, all that happens is the muscles respond by oxidising less fat and more carbs. There is no glycogen sparing (and in fact, some studies have found that very high carb intakes may increase muscle glycogen depletion). So it's a pointless exercise. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul!
In ultra running - and it's mostly ultra runners who pay attention to Roche - exercise intensity is so low that you're using fat preferentially. So why risk gastro problems in an ultra by forcing down large volumes of carbs when there is literally no need to do so?
You’re right, Nikki! what bothers me about Roche is he claimed ultra runners of the early 2000s (when I ran them) only ate “ a few bites” during races, even claiming that while featuring pics of Scott Jurek, Matt Carpenter, and Ann Trason. He’s misrepresenting the truth as all three of them (along with many others, including me) ate a decent amount during ultras. He’s a fraud.
I don't know too much about the other two, but Scott has written a lot about his approach to nutrition! One of his most explicit race strategies was constant caloric intake. He’s described snacking roughly every 20-30 minutes during ultras, typically with gels or bars. The goal was to avoid energy deficits rather than correct them later. He was firmly in the high-carb endurance paradigm, especially during racing. The first time I came across this idea of high-carb fuelling for ultras was as a medical student in the early 1990s, via research into the diet of an ultra runner named Yiannis Kouros! https://www.researchgate.net/publication/20437186_Energy_balance_in_ultramarathon_running
I just wish Leadville wasn't in such a bad time spot so an elite high caliber runner who won't drop out when things get tough would actually run it. Probably drop 30 minutes or more on the record.
The organization sucks. Elites won’t join at any point of the year. But there’s not 30 minutes to be had on the course record. That’s a bit of an exaggeration.
I just wish Leadville wasn't in such a bad time spot so an elite high caliber runner who won't drop out when things get tough would actually run it. Probably drop 30 minutes or more on the record.
The organization sucks. Elites won’t join at any point of the year. But there’s not 30 minutes to be had on the course record. That’s a bit of an exaggeration.
Matt Carpenter reported taking 120-140 grams of carbohydrate an hour when setting the Leadville record.
Ann Trason also ate more than "just a bite or two" (as described by Roche)
REDEFINING WHAT’S POSSIBLE FOR ENDURANCE ATHLETES In the ultrarunning scene, Ann Trason needs little introduction. She has won the prestigious 100-mile Western States Endurance Run a mind-boggling 14 times. She has set over t...
I ran ultras in 2003-2010, including WS100, and also volunteered at several 100s. I can tell you with 100% certainty that in that timeframe, most runners ate a decent amount while running ultras. I'm sure science has developed, but Roche acts like high carb is new when it is NOT at ALL.
I ran ultras in 2003-2010, including WS100, and also volunteered at several 100s. I can tell you with 100% certainty that in that timeframe, most runners ate a decent amount while running ultras. I'm sure science has developed, but Roche acts like high carb is new when it is NOT at ALL.
Mere puffery, like playing college football and flying 100 feet.
The organization sucks. Elites won’t join at any point of the year. But there’s not 30 minutes to be had on the course record. That’s a bit of an exaggeration.
Matt Carpenter reported taking 120-140 grams of carbohydrate an hour when setting the Leadville record.
Ann Trason also ate more than "just a bite or two" (as described by Roche)
I ran ultras in 2003-2010, including WS100, and also volunteered at several 100s. I can tell you with 100% certainty that in that timeframe, most runners ate a decent amount while running ultras. I'm sure science has developed, but Roche acts like high carb is new when it is NOT at ALL.
Fact also is Carpenter didn’t run Leadville in his prime and he wasn’t a 100 mile specialist. If he focused on Leadville I’m sure his time would be much better. There really weren’t many athletes ever like Carpenter. But doesn’t David admit that?
Fact also is Carpenter didn’t run Leadville in his prime and he wasn’t a 100 mile specialist. If he focused on Leadville I’m sure his time would be much better. There really weren’t many athletes ever like Carpenter. But doesn’t David admit that?
I believe Carpenter’s only 100 mile finish, well after prime pikes peak days (where he’s most famous).
While you can't compare the courses 1:1, I would argue WSER is the harder course due to environment and greater elevation change (it does have more decent, but also more elevation gain then Leadville). Yes, Leadville has some higher elevation, but the performance decline is roughly in line with decline in performance you get from WSERs heat, and the elites are already so fast they barely spend any time at peak elevation on the course. Killian's pace as WSER 2025 alone would have been almost 58 minutes faster if ran the same pace at Leadville and Killian placed 3rd at WSER. Perhaps I am underestimating Leadville's course, but it seems like Killian on a bad day is breaking the CR by only 30 minutes.
While you can't compare the courses 1:1, I would argue WSER is the harder course due to environment and greater elevation change (it does have more decent, but also more elevation gain then Leadville). Yes, Leadville has some higher elevation, but the performance decline is roughly in line with decline in performance you get from WSERs heat, and the elites are already so fast they barely spend any time at peak elevation on the course. Killian's pace as WSER 2025 alone would have been almost 58 minutes faster if ran the same pace at Leadville and Killian placed 3rd at WSER. Perhaps I am underestimating Leadville's course, but it seems like Killian on a bad day is breaking the CR by only 30 minutes.
Lucky for us old Dave ran them both so we can compare his times on the two courses….
Is there any universe in which Roach gives it a go this year?
With such a stacked field and his legendary blowup last year (after all the big talk and #science) can he afford another DNF? Who would take that clown seriously
Is there any universe in which Roach gives it a go this year?
With such a stacked field and his legendary blowup last year (after all the big talk and #science) can he afford another DNF? Who would take that clown seriously
I don't think so. He's injured and hasn't been resting properly, IMO.
Fact also is Carpenter didn’t run Leadville in his prime and he wasn’t a 100 mile specialist. If he focused on Leadville I’m sure his time would be much better. There really weren’t many athletes ever like Carpenter. But doesn’t David admit that?
I believe Carpenter’s only 100 mile finish, well after prime pikes peak days (where he’s most famous).
So much false information about ultrarunning here. Carpenter ran the Leadville 100 twice. In 2004 he bonked and walked it in. In 2005 he won it in record time which stood for 19 years.
For the most part Matt Carpenter was a mountain running specialist and not a ultrarunner.
Ultrarunners always fueled themselves well. David Roche has no clue what he is talking about. Just because you didn't see it happening or saw a post on social media that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Kouros was famous for getting feed Greek sweets in his multiday races.
You have to keep in mind that people raced modern day ultras since the 1980ies but social media was invented in the 2000s.
Is there any universe in which Roach gives it a go this year?
With such a stacked field and his legendary blowup last year (after all the big talk and #science) can he afford another DNF? Who would take that clown seriously
Him and Megs are experts at dodging big competition with all of their excuses. Megan conveniently has “heart issues” whenever it’s time to throw down and David picks one of many excuses (ankle, knee, foot, brain)…
