Clemence Calvin - who allegedly refused a doping test last month - sets new French NR of 2:23:41 in Paris

Anyone watch the replay? She's smiling nonchalantly at the start line. No opinion on the thread subject. The commentators didn't mention the controversy.

El Keniano wrote:

So you expect Kenya to fall off the distance running map because testing is now the strictest in the world? Please hold your breath.

No. Never said that. Did you go to the same school as Coevett?

I expect Kenya to fall behind Ethiopia (until they ramp up the testing), but still to remain ahead of us (higher popularity of running, more running talents).

In other words, I expect more races like this one:

Yes he said 1968, just like I said he said -- you can see for yourself. Seems like you are the one saying that this pre-1960 performance jump is interesting, and that blood doping became popular before 1968.

let's be fair wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Sorry but we weren't talking about current world records, but non-African all time bests (the ones I said moved by so little).

"casual obsever" said 1968 -- if my quick calculations are correct, using times from Clarke and Clayton before 1968, is still around 1.5% - 1.9% for those events.

Did (s)he?

casual obsever wrote:

If you were to take a pre-blood-doping era, like up to 1960 or maybe even 1968, and compare it to the blood-doping era, then everything would look very different.

non-African pre 1960 vs. post:

28:30 vs. 26:44 --> 6.5% slower.

2:15 vs. 2:05 post --> 8% slower.

A lot more than your "might" 3%.

Are you saying that there was a huge jump in performance from 1959 to 1967, while blood-doping became increasingly popular? Interesting observation.

Saugy was one of the authors. The 15-22% was for samples, not athletes. The paper says that the testing strategy was nonrandom, and privileged abnormal samples -- meaning the percentage of dopers would be less. "Nonrandom sampling among athletes makes the prevalence in populations of samples higher than the prevalence in populations of individuals." I don't know about 99.9%, and I'm pretty sure you are confusing probability of a false positive with probability of true positive.

Hungry Runner wrote:

Saugy's paper, where he estimates 15% - 22% blood dopers among the IAAF's "endurance athletes"?

That's based on the ABP trial period, with only 23% from ooc, at a time (2001 - 2009), where Kenyans and Ethiopians did no blood-testing in their own countries. The number seems to include only those with an over 99.9% certainty of dopers.

Hmmm - what do you estimate as real number of blood dopers? Twice as much? Three times?

rekrunner wrote:

In 2011, the IAAF wrote a paper, limited to blood doping, with doping estimates (samples) broken down by men, women, distance, and non-distance events.

0.3-0.8% were measures of progress from one era to the next. My doubts about 3% seem to be confirmed by the small progress of the largest group, but originate outside this analysis.

ass u me wrote:

But how can you then conclude that blood-doping helps less than 3%?

That would only be a valid assumption if you postulate that blood doping for non-African men went from nonexistent pre 1990 to everywhere post 1990. If blood-doping remained constant (whether high or low), then your 0.3 - 0.8% say nothing about the efficiency of blood-doping.

bingo mate wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

So you expect Kenya to fall off the distance running map because testing is now the strictest in the world? Please hold your breath.

No. Never said that. Did you go to the same school as Coevett?

I expect Kenya to fall behind Ethiopia (until they ramp up the testing), but still to remain ahead of us (higher popularity of running, more running talents).

In other words, I expect more races like this one:

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8989201

Kenya hasn’t won the 5k for decades. Kenya’s best don’t like it for some reason.

Coevett wrote:

Subway Surfers wrote:

This doesn't negate the fact that they have had too many running positives of recent.

Remember they had, what was it, three in 10 days last summer? We may well see a strike rate of one a week once the outdoor track season gets going.

Actually, rereading Bingo's post, he's actually ridiculing me for suggesting a Kenyan was getting popped once a week, then admits that it's one in every 7 weeks or so...in the off season!!

This guy has no shame.

AIU only updates every few months or so and the only good ones are Kenyan with the odd Moroccan.

After having its first provisional suspension overturned by the State Council, the AFLD has provisionally suspended Clémence Calvin again last Thursday.

https://www.afp.com/fr/infos/335/affaire-calvin-retour-la-case-suspension-pour-la-marathonienne-doc-1g12zd2

This time she was heard by the head of the AFLD. Maybe they think this will make a difference and prevent this new decision from being overturned.

I can't wait to see her Paris marathon performance cancelled. If Christelle Daunay is clean, it will be good for her to see this impostor sanctioned and retain her French record.

Also, yesterday, France 2 aired a short investigation where journalists got a testimony Calvin never stayed in a specific place in Marrakesh she had indicated in ADAMS; and another testimony she fled the doping test in in a gym (and not in the street, as she claimed).

grox wrote:

Also, yesterday, France 2 aired a short investigation where journalists got a testimony Calvin never stayed in a specific place in Marrakesh she had indicated in ADAMS; and another testimony she fled the doping test in in a gym (and not in the street, as she claimed).

Sounds like Costas Kenteris all over again.

El Keniano wrote:

bingo mate wrote:

Yes dude, we are used to this. Tucker actually published nice graphs on this trend: we limit the doses here to remain "clean", and went back from EPO to blood-doping.

Problem is, the lower the dosage, the smaller the effect. Advantage Kenya + Ethiopia in the past, maybe only Ethiopia (and Uganda etc.) in the future.

So you expect Kenya to fall off the distance running map because testing is now the strictest in the world? Please hold your breath.

If the rumours are true, there are another 2 Kenyans from London set to fall soon.

Doubt it. But if true, then maybe another one of these pro-Kenyan PR shills/trolls will disappear! Wouldn't that be awesome?

The 4-year ban for her and her husband have been upheld so I presume that means she'll lose the NR.

However, she called the hearing a "masquerade" and is appealing.

https://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSport/Athletics/french-marathon-runner-to-fight-4-year-doping-ban-20191212

It's interesting, when Europeans dope as much as the East Africans, they are suddenly able to beat the Kenyans.

So much for their "genetic advantage".

Doping levels the playing field.

Apparently in France, if your trainers aren't willing to "admit" to injecting you with EPO on the massage table, they will jump out and block testers while you run away....

Those French trainers...such rascals.

YMMV wrote:

https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2019-11-19---athletics--oph%C3%A9lie-claude-boxberger-tested-positive-for-epo-.rJTiK5b3S.html

Apparently in France, if your trainers aren't willing to "admit" to injecting you with EPO on the massage table, they will jump out and block testers while you run away....

Those French trainers...such rascals.

They apparently also moonlight in the USA. Just ask Tyson Gay.

Awesome bump, letsrun.

Coevett wrote:

Remember they had, what was it, three in 10 days last summer? We may well see a strike rate of one a week once the outdoor track season gets going.

Actually, rereading Bingo's post, he's actually ridiculing me for suggesting a Kenyan was getting popped once a week, then admits that it's one in every 7 weeks or so...in the off season!!

This guy has no shame.

Speaking of no shame, Coevett, if you had any, you would now that the season is over admit that you were wrong and bingo mate was right: we didn't even come close to "a strike rate of one a week once the outdoor track season gets going".

rekrunner wrote:

Looks like a good performance for her and for France. If it is ratified, and she remains eligible, she should keep the record.

Too funny, you are such a jokster (or so I hope).

Huh? When I wrote that, she had a provisional suspension, which was then lifted by France's highest administrative court. Seems like "if she remains eligible" was an appropriate thing to say, considering how it was going back and forth.

egg on the face wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Looks like a good performance for her and for France. If it is ratified, and she remains eligible, she should keep the record.

Too funny, you are such a jokster (or so I hope).