Ranking WI collegiate distance programs

Since we are talking about trends, I want to bring up an observation I’ve seen from Milwaukee.

There distance program has been awful from a historical standpoint. But they had quite a bit of success from the rest of the track program ie: Conference champions, regional qualifiers, even NCAA DI All-Americans.

However, the program as a whole has recently been surpassed by Youngstown and Oakland in the team rankings, and Milwaukee’s sprint powers have dwindled.

With that, they have made a noticeable improvement in their distance roster.

The question at hand for me, is how does Milwaukee allocate their scholarships? Have they had a recent change in philosophy of who they go after (putting more money in distance).

Does anyone have insight on this? Or is this just a strange phenomena?

Nobody here knows. I would speculate that they only give out a few scholarships and they are now evenly distributing those. They don’t attract kids really any better than what are spread across the D3 schools which makes my point. Their best athletes are equal to WI’s worst but if they started giving out 12 scholarships, you would see an immediate increase in the level of recruits. A full ride to a 4:10 guy vs walking on at WI would sound pretty attractive to many kids and Parents.

The more appropriate topic is Ranking WI distance coaches

No telling wrote:

Nobody here knows. I would speculate that they only give out a few scholarships and they are now evenly distributing those. They don’t attract kids really any better than what are spread across the D3 schools which makes my point. Their best athletes are equal to WI’s worst but if they started giving out 12 scholarships, you would see an immediate increase in the level of recruits. A full ride to a 4:10 guy vs walking on at WI would sound pretty attractive to many kids and Parents.

Milwaukee vs. WIAC All-Stars

Cotter, Alex SO-2 1:54.93 2018 Mark Messersmith Invitational Jan 27, 2018

Dueck, Drew JR-3 1:54.97 GVSU Big Meet- Friday Feb 9, 2018

Sippy, Michael FR-1 1:55.69 GVSU Big Meet- Saturday Feb 10, 2018

1 Kuehl, Brian FR-1 Wis.-Whitewater 1:54.59 Leonard "Squig" Converse Invitational Jan 26, 2018

2 LaBracke, Nico SO-2 Wis.-Stevens Point 1:55.61 Midwest ELITE Invitational Feb 10, 2018

3 Zack, Joe SR-4 Wis.-Oshkosh 1:55.65 Midwest ELITE Invitational Feb 10, 2018

McMillan, Terry JR-3 Wis.-Milwaukee 4:10.47 GVSU Big Meet- Friday Feb 9, 2018

Cotter, Alex SO-2 Wis.-Milwaukee 4:12.32 GVSU Big Meet- Friday Feb 9, 2018

Tagliapietra, Noah FR-1 4:17.90 John Tierney Classic Jan 20, 2018

1 Zack, Joe SR-4 Wis.-Oshkosh 4:09.21 UW Oshkosh Early Bird Invitational Dec 2, 2017

2 Rynes, Walker SR-4 Wis.-Platteville 4:17.59 UW-P / UW-EC / UW-SP Triangular Jan 20, 2018

3 Nelson, Jonah SR-4 Wis.-Whitewater 4:17.64 Midwest ELITE Invitational Feb 10, 2018

Tagliapietra, Noah FR-1 8:32.18 2018 Mark Messersmith Invitational Jan 27, 2018

McMillan, Terry JR-3 8:38.34 2018 Mark Messersmith Invitational Jan 27, 2018

Michalowski, Nick JR-3 8:42.47 John Tierney Classic Jan 20, 2018

1 Lau, Darin SR-4 Wis.-Eau Claire 8:23.17 Warren Bowlus Invite Jan 27, 2018

2 Rynes, Walker SR-4 Wis.-Platteville 8:34.13 UW-Platteville Select Jan 27, 2018

3 Zajkowski, Austin SR-4 Wis.-La Crosse 8:39.94 Ted Nelson Classic Feb 3, 2018

Tagliapietra, Noah FR-1 Wis.-Milwaukee 14:32.04 GVSU Big Meet- Friday Feb 9, 2018

Michalowski, Nick JR-3 Wis.-Milwaukee 14:58.54 GVSU Big Meet- Friday Feb 9, 2018

1 Lau, Darin SR-4 Wis.-Eau Claire 14:22.53 The Showcase Feb 9, 2018

2 Rynes, Walker SR-4 Wis.-Platteville 14:31.59 The Showcase Feb 9, 2018

3 Schultz, Thomas JR-3 Wis.-La Crosse 14:50.05 Midwest ELITE Invitational Feb 10, 2018

Jerry Shoemaker wrote:

The more appropriate topic is Ranking WI distance coaches

Pete Corfeld is a prime representation of UW-Milwaukee as a whole . UWM is a failed system which staggers at least two steps backwards before making any strides forward. If you were to get a better WI-native leader in that position--i.e. Dave Uhrich, Thomas Breitbach or Dominic Newman--UWM would yield consistent results and be more competitive as a whole. I think it is important to have a home grown coach for this particular position.

Bruce Pearl as a coach (non-native) did this in one year with basketball. Like him or not, side with the future Tennessee scandals or not, Bruce Pearl energized his student-athletes and got the most out of them. Corfeld is the polar opposite. Pete Corfeld has cost UWM decades of humiliation and the long term damage/stigma for the program is nearly irreparable.

Thank you for the data. Looks like the D3 all stars beat Milwaukee. Maybe that will quiet those who think that Marquette and Milwaukee are D1 colleges. I really don’t think that they are giving out many scholarships when a large population of kids are bypassing them for other local schools. Start recruiting and start giving some money and they can turn it around. I don’t see it happening. When Marquette offered nothing to a 4:13 Junior, they are not going to improve.

No telling wrote:

Thank you for the data. Looks like the D3 all stars beat Milwaukee. Maybe that will quiet those who think that Marquette and Milwaukee are D1 colleges. I really don’t think that they are giving out many scholarships when a large population of kids are bypassing them for other local schools. Start recruiting and start giving some money and they can turn it around. I don’t see it happening. When Marquette offered nothing to a 4:13 Junior, they are not going to improve.

Once again, you’re comparing the present and not looking ahead. Milwaukee does not have one senior on their team that contributes to their roster. Almost all these D3 all-stars will be gone next year. I can see Tagliapietra dropping under 14:20 outdoors if they take him out to Mt Sac(which they can). That is a serious jump for the program and a potential 10+ second outdoor school record. The reason guys choose D3 over MKE is because D3 coaches constantly rip on Milwaukee and their lack of talent. Guys are gonna see the improvements and want to go there and get $$$$. Sure it’s comparable right now. But two/three years down the road it might not be

I think this is a good point. Leadership must change for UW-Milwaukee to truly make the next step. A native coach is the right call also. You need someone who has a strong tie to the Wisconsin running community. Pete Corfeld's days are numbered at UW-Milwaukee, the guy is pushing 60 and he doesn't look like a healthy young 60. That said, there are a few factors involved with Corfeld's future departure and the next leader.

A mid-major program like UW-Milwaukee is going to want to save money when hiring a new coach. They are going to want a first time head coach who can't leverage any salary demands. They will also want this person to be the head of both men's and women's XC and Track so they don't have to pay multiple coaches to be head coaches. UW-Milwaukee's future in distance running solely depends on the decision of the AD. Suppose the AD likes a candidate that is a non-distance coach, well you can kiss goodbye any possibility of continued forward momentum from UW-Milwaukee. Coaches want to hire people they know and trust, so in this scenario you can figure every coach will get canned. The next piece to this is that a non-distance coach isn't going to put a lot of scholarships into distance (Think SEC type structure).

I like the thought of Dom Newman, he is a well respected coach, but he's probably making better money at Shorewood than what UW-Milwaukee would offer. Plus you have to think about work/life balance, he's not thaaaatt young, and I doubt he wants to be on the road half the weekends out of the year. Tom Breitbach has a good thing going for him at Parkside. His next move has to be assistant at a DI or Director at Eau Claire or something like that. UW-Milwaukee would be a step sideways, not forward. I am not familiar with Dave Uhrich, so I can't comment on that.

Other names to float out there (because its fun to speculate): Dawson Miller, John DeWitt, I'd even say Maverick Darling

UW-Milwaukee's future in distance running depends on getting someone who is a qualified candidate that would work for $30-35k. My prediction is that Corfeld steps away the moment he hits retirement age, and when that happens, UW-Milwaukee will become a revolving door for young coaches to earn their stripes for 3-5 years before taking a better job somewhere else.

This might not be a popular opinion on this board, but if the Milwaukee job opened, all the WIAC coaches would apply for it. Corfeld makes $65-70k, most of the WIAC coaches make like $40-45k.

Watching these Milwaukee/Marquette guys desperately grasp for some relevance is just sad to watch. They say they are better than Wisconsin because they develop runners better, even though their runners are much slower. But then they flip that logic completely backwards and say they are better than WIAC schools because they are faster, even though WIAC schools develop runners better.

That is a good point. There is so much animosity here and at the schools. Wisconsin will always have the best team through recruiting but average guys are probably best to look at D3.

Wiscc wrote:

That is a good point. There is so much animosity here and at the schools. Wisconsin will always have the best team through recruiting but average guys are probably best to look at D3.

Wisco's greatness STOPS at recruiting.

Wiscc wrote:

average guys are probably best to look at D3.

Why? I can’t think of another state where quality runners choose Division Three schools over Scholarship schools. Is this common in other places?

Not quite true. Athletes do not choose to go to a D3 school over getting a scholarship. You said that they choose D3 over scholarship schools. For some athletes that could have walked on at Wisconsin or Marquette, they choose to go D3 but they do it to save money. The state of Wisconsin is unique. Athletes can actually pay slightly less to go to a WIAC D3 school over Wisconsin and can save quite a bit over Marquette. In adjoining states, that is not true. D3 schools in Iowa and Minnesota cost nearly $50k while the D1 schools only cost in the $22-$25k range. In most states, athletes try to walk on at their D1 state school rather than pay $50k and most end up disappearing after a year. Some choose to forgo running altogether if they are not allowed to walk-on at the D1 school because they don't really have the D3 option because it is not affordable. Some of the top D3 running schools such as WashU, U of Chicago, Johns Hopkins, and MIT cost nearly $70k per year.

[quote]Former Badger Great wrote:

Athletes can actually pay slightly less to go to a WIAC D3 school over Wisconsin and can save quite a bit over Marquette.

This definitely does make a difference unless Mom & Dad are wealthy.

You would save way more money going to UWM on scholarship.

WiscoBoi wrote:

Watching these Milwaukee/Marquette guys desperately grasp for some relevance is just sad to watch. They say they are better than Wisconsin because they develop runners better, even though their runners are much slower. But then they flip that logic completely backwards and say they are better than WIAC schools because they are faster, even though WIAC schools develop runners better.

This is a great post

Badgers ran 9:27 today in the dmr. That works out to 2:55-1:48-46-3:58 factoring in about another .5 for each. No other Wisconsin could come within 29 seconds of that.

Mick had 2:57, 47, 1:47, 3:54