OMG: What happened in the women's 800? Will they re-run the race?

Any of you who think she raced for all the active pregnant women out there are small minded or ignorant to what really she is about which is herself.

rojo wrote:

OMG: What happened in the women's 800?

Isn't it obvious? Yohan Blake flinched, causing Montano to run up on Martinez.

That or someone is trying to drum up controversy for page hits.

I kind of prefer Moo point.

It's like a cow's opinion. It just doesn't matter. It's moo.

800Great wrote:

[quote]The only thing Montano did was run just far enough on the outside of lane 1 to give Rogers enough room to think that she could pass on the inside. She didn't have enough room to make a clean pass and gets tripped up running into the back of wilson, then stumbling into Martinez. Rogers is the one who initially bumped Martinez who then tripped into Montano who then fell.

Rogers seemed to have caused this who debacle and Montano is taking all the heat for it.

This is nonsense. Rogers didn't just think she had enough room to pass, she had passed Montano, well before they even entered the turn. I have watched this race numerous times (at the track, on TV and video on the computer), focusing on different runners each time. Rogers was not attempting to pass anyone at the time of the fall. In fact, she was drifting back a bit at the time. Both Rogers and Wilson are running smoothly, no bumps or stumbles. The first one to stumble or show any sign of contact is Martinez, at the exact time Montano accelerates. How anyone sees this differently is beyond me. Montano was obviously trying to force her way through where there was no room and clips Martinez left leg as it comes off the ground.

It's racing. Shit happens. But we don't need to invent facts to explain away poor race decisions.

Zap Ruder wrote:

Alysia, on the other hand, just had Brenda trip/veer/slow right in front of her. I'd be annoyed, too. If Brenda hadn't had a panic attack and tried to press into Wilson's back on the bend, we wouldn't have this problem.

I'm a huge Brenda fan, follow her much more than I do Montano, but this is simple stuff when you actually watch the sequence. Nothing happens until after Brenda has clipped Wilson, WHICH WILSON SAID HAPPENED.

I've replayed the video a dozen times and can't see how people have claimed (like Cox via Twitter) that Rogers had moved over into BMart causing this chain-reaction. I wonder if they had a different camera angle.video than the NBC National feed?

It appears that BMart ran up into the right shoulder of Wilson, panicked, stumbled, and then Montano clipped BMart cause she had no place to go.

Oh yes. The poster who is pissed that a runner would make a statement about something. Or... OMG be selfish and bring attention to herself and brand. Who gives a flying crap why she did it. She's a runner. It's her job to run and try to make money. The point is it's ridiculous to say she endangered her baby by doing her job. And it brought a much needed discussion about women's health and encouraging women to stay active during pregnancy.

wiskytangofoxtrotmotherf@$ker wrote:

Barefoot in Kitchen wrote:

Every woman is different. I know women who run races longer than 800 meters 8 months pregnant. Millions of women across the world work in fields until the day the baby is born. Studies show that women who are already active and remain active through the pregnancy have easier births.

Assuming that Montano didn't discuss her training with her doctor is ridiculous. And good for her to bringing attention to how a woman can handle pregnancy and physical activity. Americans are idiots about pregnancy and women's health. We aren't fragile little beings that need to be bedridden for 9 months.

Any of you who think she raced for all the active pregnant women out there are small minded or ignorant to what really she is about which is herself.

I just watched the slow motion version from the nbc replay in further slow motion on youtube. Brenda clips the knee of montano. That causes brenda to begin flailing and jumping. Monano then ran into brenda during the carnage. Montano grabbed rogers as she is falling down. Ajee Wilson is not touched.

I have no idea, but he gave the impression that the video was reviewed in the context of a challenge - and that he was there as Kate Grace's agent. I presume - or, at least I hope -- that they were not limited to the NBC feed.

I guess I don't understand why Montano is so upset. I mean, she's here to do god's work, correct? So clearly god has other things in mind for her.

In fact, if we could just get someone with a direct line to god (the Pope, for example) we could do away with this Olympic Trials nonsense and just get the team roster directly from the man upstairs. That way our athletes would only have to peak once.

At the moment of contact, the relative positioning is as follows:

Wilson: slowing/holding

Rogers: slowing/holding (right behind Wilson and keying off of her)

Martinez: moving up alongside Wilson

Montano: moving up on even faster on Martinez (most acceleration relative to other three).

Wilson and Rogers show no disruption of stride when BMart begins to stagger. Montano is concealed behind Rogers in most camera angles. She is laterally positioned in between Martinez and Rogers, who are inches apart.

It is clear to me from this that Montano ran up on Martinez with no daylight to aim for. Culpability on Montano.

the reason Montano still seems to have her form (while Martinez is stumbling) is because the contact that Montano caused involved Martinez' foot and Montano's leg. You push someone's foot out and their whole leg follows. This is what happened to Martinez. Montano ran up on her and clipped her heel. Montano suffers no immediate affect. Only after Martinez actually stumbles, chops her steps, and loses momentum (speed) did the encroaching Montano cause further contact and which caused Montano to actually fall.

... Wilson and Rogers show no disruption of stride when BMart begins to stagger.

Exactly. Wilson and Rodgers had no stride disruptions both before and when BMart begins to stagger. If you look at their legs they are moving along smoothly and without incident. The disruption occurs after BMart begins to stagger. Case closed.

I don't think someone like Morgan Uceny is going to have any compassion for Martinez or Montano today....yes, it was racing, impossible to ever definitively point out blame- but the weight of evidence goes against Montano for sure. , Everyone racing like this in the future needs to run partially defensively in a Trials setting like this, where so much is at stake.

gonchar wrote:

I don't think someone like Morgan Uceny is going to have any compassion for Martinez or Montano today....yes, it was racing, impossible to ever definitively point out blame- but the weight of evidence goes against Montano for sure. , Everyone racing like this in the future needs to run partially defensively in a Trials setting like this, where so much is at stake.

I think that Montano was concentrating so much on not getting "boxed" in Lane 1 that she actually put herself in a more precarious position... seems to me that she ran on the outside of Lane 1 all the way down the backstretch and heading into the 600m mark where Rogers passed her on the inside. Had Montano stayed on the inside (behind Ajee Wilson) she may have avoided what she was so focused on "avoiding".

smile wrote:

GB knows best wrote:

It's time for the USATF to adopt the Great Britain system so they can address things like this. It is ridiculous that USATF does not pick the third entry with the two automatic entries coming from the trials. They get what they deserve.

The last people we need picking teams is inept, corrupt T&F officials.

Montano was clearly at fault but I liked the part of her post-race interview alleging that the IAAF is corrupt. I would like to take that a few steps further and state that USATF is corrupt, the NCAA is corrupt, and miscellaneous Conference track powers are also corrupted. Are there any real heroes anymore?

Exactly what I saw

I've watched the video in slow mo multiple times and as several others have said, there doesn't appear to have been any contact between Brenda and anyone else until Montano came up behind her. In the end, it doesn't matter as the results are final but still would be interesting to know what caused Brenda to trip.

Here's a write-up from someone who was in attendance and says Brenda's shoe was virtually clipped off. Wish he mentioned where he was positioned at the time of the incident to know if he saw it with his own eyes or, like the rest of us, viewing it over and over on a screen trying to play detective.

http://www.runblogrun.com/2016/07/kate-grace-wins-800-meter-olympic-trials-race-in-race-of-nightmeres.html

patternfinder wrote:

doot doot wrote:

You still have to go around people not through them. She's a total fvcking idiot. Should get her 3:06 "performance" deeq'd.

Hilarious. When that no-name ran into Shaq Walker's trail leg in the men's semi you were all blaming Shaq. Now it's the opposite and you blame the runner who is behind?

Literally this board just blames the darkest person in any situation. It is so predictable. If Murphy had stepped on Jock's heel you'd all be screaming about how bad Jock is for being in the way.

A few things:

The 800m in a lot of ways is like the hurdles, or an indoor 400m. It is unpredictable and all things being equal, it favors the athlete who runs the cleanest race. Most of the 800m world record were set when an athlete lead wire-to-wire, right behind a rabbit or otherwise unimpeded the whole way. People often criticize 800m runners who often go out too quick or run too far in the rear, but most 800m runners do that to avoid being touched. The best 800m runners in a race are not the ones in the pack, they are either up front or in the back. The top athletes will get out fast and whole on or sling off the final curve and walk people down the last 80 meters. The way an 800m runner executes their race is a decision based on each athlete's balance of speed and endurance. A women whose 400m PR is 54x is not going to go out in 57x, 57x would probably be their split if they were in a 600m race. On the other hand, if you have a 52x 400m PR, going out in 57x is somewhat comfortable and makes sense.

The other point, women who are 54x 400m sprinters, running under 60 seconds is a controlled sprint. When you are sprinting, your body spends more time in the air than in contact with the ground. It you are touched while your foot is in contact with the ground, your athleticism well allow your body to recover, but if you are touched while your feet are not in contact with the ground, you body can't adjust and you usually go down. Also, in the last 150 meters, your body is so fatigued that if you are touched, you are likely to go down because all of your remaining energy is focused on getting to the finish line and your coordination is off.

With all of that said, not taking any thing away from Kate, but the 3 best U.S. 800m runners are Montano, Wilson and Martinez. On a good day, these women are capable of running 1:57x, Kate and Williams on a good day are capable of running 1:59x...Kate and Williams on the right day, had a good day. That is the nature of the USOT, your PR does not matter, you have to have a good day when it counts. Wilson did not run that well, but was good enough. Montano ran a horrible race and I'm relatively certain she was not going to win that race. I think she was going to fade to 3rd or 4th the last 50 meters. Montano's first 200m was faster than it needed to be, it looks like Rogers was going to take it out in 57, which is fast enough, why not let her lead and tuck in behind her. Then she runs the entire 400m on the outside of lane one, basically throwing away one of the advantages of leading, then she relaxes too much from 500-600 instead of holding her position she allows 3 athletes to pass her, at 600m she was running almost in lane 2 for some odd reason, which allowed Rogers to pass her on the inside. Then at around 620m she sees athletes pulling away from her and instead of being confident and patient and waiting for things to open up like Williams and Grace did, she panics and runs up on Martinez. With over 150m to go and only Wilson and Martinez (the 1:57x types) were the only threats of beating he, why not swing wide or hold your position until a space opens up instead risking running so close behind Martinez and clipping her. Martinez on the other hand was executing her race like she always does and was probably going to win that race. Montano's clipping Martinez not only prevented her from likely winning the race, but also cased Montano to not pick up that 3rd spot.

Btw, I have watched that race video about a dozen times and Montano's left leg definitely caught the back kick of Martinez's left leg. I am not hating on Montano because I am sure she was not aware of what happened and was caught up in the emotion of not making the team, but she committed an unforced error that hurt herself and another athlete.

Montano ran a stupid race and a dangerous race. And her display at the end was lame.