"The Boston Marathon Was Fixed" thread.

Some good points in this post. Like this one;

...."Other things to consider: In a thrown race, would those in on the fix run in the manner they did? Would they not have been more likely to hang with Meb for much longer so that they could monitor his progress and have a better understanding of how the race was going, and then fall off one by one or something?".....

Totally agree

Tadpole wrote:

Some good points in this post. Like this one;

...."Other things to consider: In a thrown race, would those in on the fix run in the manner they did? Would they not have been more likely to hang with Meb for much longer so that they could monitor his progress and have a better understanding of how the race was going, and then fall off one by one or something?".....

Totally agree

Yeah, that is a really, REALLY good point. Basically you are saying that the race looked so blatantly fixed that it obviously was not fixed.

Totally love your logic!

This is very simple - like paying a rabbit to do his job.

Here is a bag of money. Run for second place.

Star wrote:

This is very simple - like paying a rabbit to do his job.

Here is a bag of money. Run for second place.

In races with one or a handful of pace-setters, the identity of these runners and the nature of their task is known to spectators and athletes beforehand and throughout the race. No subterfuge, shenanigans or conspiracies.

Also, pace-setters don't typically "run for second." In the vast majority of cases they don't even finish.

Other than that, your analogy is hauntingly accurate.

Yes it was fixed. It's so easy to coach runners. Especially non-English speaking runners. They'll do what ever a coach asks of them.

*for those concrete thinkers. It's called sarcasm.

cat herder wrote:

Yes it was fixed. It's so easy to coach runners. Especially non-English speaking runners. They'll do what ever a coach asks of them.

*for those concrete thinkers. It's called sarcasm.

Africans only care about the $$$, it's how they live. They race for cash. If they are paid they could care less if it's 1st or 2nd or 3rd.

It's so blatantly obvious that they sat on the pace and let a 38 year old man at 2:08 pace get away from them because...certainly they couldn't hang at that ridiculous pace and why would they want to race how they typically do every other marathon?

Not to mention the best US marathoner telling the team "come on guys, let's let a 38 year old man beat us so we can get an American on the podium!" Because of course, as a runner, when my friend says why don't you let that old man beat you? I typically agree and slow down mid-race.

It was fixed, BAA paid them off, boring race anyways.

grox wrote:

LM wrote:

Field just plain underestimated Meb, who then delivered with the race of his life BY FAR

To you and agip: what you say does carry some weight (although I really have doubts). But still, break your PB at 38 on this day? I have a hard time believing it. (And as an ageing runner, I can tell you I'd love to believe one can break PBs until 38.)

His age and running a personal best has nothing to do with it. You're arguing it was fixed because of the time he ran? The clock doesn't lie.

Biola Runner wrote:

grox wrote:

To you and agip: what you say does carry some weight (although I really have doubts). But still, break your PB at 38 on this day? I have a hard time believing it. (And as an ageing runner, I can tell you I'd love to believe one can break PBs until 38.)

His age and running a personal best has nothing to do with it. You're arguing it was fixed because of the time he ran? The clock doesn't lie.

Meb ran the time. That is not the issue. The issue is that one of the best marathoners in the world - consistently a 2:05 WINNER - was able to run 29:30 uphill from 30-40k, and then not close the gap on a 38yr old man who was struggling. That defies credulity. That the 10-12 athletes in this field all - to a man - had bad days is also beyond belief, especially as the women benefited from the excellent weather to run fast times.

It is too neat, too clean, too convenient. If Meb had won 4-5 years ago, I would believe it. But not 2 weeks before his 39th birthday.

Crying Man wrote:

agip wrote:

conspiracy morans,

take a look at the times of the last 20 boston marathons. Meb's time today would have won 14 of the 20. Only 6 were faster!

You are all blinded by the London berlin dubai times. Boston is a different animal.

The pack just didn't believe Meb had the win in his legs. They underestimated him.

And Meb ran incredibly well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_winners_of_the_Boston_Marathon

Please say that you understand the sport better than your post would indicate.

It is NOT about the time. Meb ran a great race today. Give credit where credit is due.

But there is ZERO chance that the pack of elite Africans lets him go in the very early stages of the race at a very pedestrian pace. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

Open your eyes.

You quoted something you clearly don't understand. He was posting about how Meb's time was consistent with the average winning Boston time, which it was. You then go on to say it was a pedestrian pace, which obviously it wasn't. You can't argue that a pedestrian pace usually would put you in position to win. 2:08 would put you in contention.

The elite Africans did let him go. That is because they didn't view Meb as a threat, and let him go, figuring he would come back to them. But he time they realized the move was legitimate, they didn't have what it takes to close the gap in time.

INCORRECT!

You seem to think that you can choose how the word 'pedestrian' must be used, even when it is used by someone else. Sorry, but you cannot.

Pedestrian in this case means 'nothing extraordinary' or 'nothing that would be enough to drop the marathoning elite during the first half of a marathon'.

So, sorry but you are simply wrong.

As far as the notion that they did not consider Meb a threat - that is just hilarious. Since when is the reigning 4th place finisher at the Olympics not a threat to be able to maintain a pedestrian pace?

One of the oft-repeated claims of the whackjob conspiracy theorists is that Meb was "struggling" or "collapsing." But Meb didn't even really slow down. Here are Meb's splits from miles 22 through 25:

Mile 22 – 4:48

Mile 23 – 4:56

Mile 24 – 4:47

Mile 25 – 5:00

And he ran sub-5 minute pace over the last 1.2 miles. I'm sorry, but that is not "struggling" at the end of a marathon. He was still averaging close to 2:08 pace over the last five miles of the race!

And I haven't checked Chebet's splits, but let's assume that you're right that Chebet ran "29:30 uphill from 30-40k." Uhhh....it's not hard to see why any runner--even a 2:05 marathoner--might struggle to close after running that hard for 10 kilometers at the end of a marathon. Instead of going for the most logical explanation (he got tired after running so hard), you figure he must be part of an (unnamed) conspiracy.

They did not all have bad days. Chebet, Chepkwony, Shafar, and Geneti all ran times that would have won the majority of the Boston marathons over the past 15 years. And, no, the conditions yesterday were nothing like those in the 2011 race, where the runners were pushed by a 20 mph tailwind. The average wind speed yesterday was under 2 mph.

KMB wrote:

In races with one or a handful of pace-setters, the identity of these runners and the nature of their task is known to spectators and athletes beforehand and throughout the race. No subterfuge, shenanigans or conspiracies.

That wasn't the case when pace-setting was illegal.

They had to pretend to be trying to win and had to finish back in the day.

Like when Bannister ran sub 4.

agip wrote:

conspiracy morans,

Did anyone else catch this moron's spelling mistake?

Chooomsky wrote:

Crying Man wrote:

BS. Just BS.

Meb did not even have to work to pull decisively away. Since when to the African elites run like that? What were their mile splits during the 5 - 6 miles when Meb was really pulling away? Sorry, but they simply do NOT run like that in a major marathon. EVER.

Um, yes they do. Almost every marathon has jokers out in front for a while. You people have your white-man egos hurt a little to easily.

I am having my linguistics class look at your posts. Maybe someday your racism will become part of history! That's a positive way of looking at this thread!

Jokers who are the reigning 4th place finisher at the Olympics?

OK, I see your point - it is that you have no brain, right?

troofiness wrote:

It is too neat, too clean, too convenient. If Meb had won 4-5 years ago, I would believe it. But not 2 weeks before his 39th birthday.

This.

It's just too perfect that in a negative split race where Meb went out at a dull pace no 2:04-2:05 guys (not one) could hang with him.

So the story is "well they thought they'd try to reel him in later"...even though that's not how Africans race...ever.

And the story doesn't make sense because they didn't push to reel him in...so it becomes "well the African's didn't respond because no one wanted to pick up the pace but the Americans, and when they tried Ryan Hall saved the day and told them not to!"

It's just too neat, too clean, that an almost 39 year old runs away from the field on Patriots day to honor the dead and becomes the first American to win in 30 years at this prestigious race when no one in the field seemingly tried to pick up the pace to catch him, but they closed and he held on in a tough gut it out race, FOR AMERICA!!

KMB wrote:

Star wrote:

This is very simple - like paying a rabbit to do his job.

Here is a bag of money. Run for second place.

In races with one or a handful of pace-setters, the identity of these runners and the nature of their task is known to spectators and athletes beforehand and throughout the race. No subterfuge, shenanigans or conspiracies.

Also, pace-setters don't typically "run for second." In the vast majority of cases they don't even finish.

Other than that, your analogy is hauntingly accurate.

Pretty sure the point was that it is fairly easy to pay someone (especially a poor someone who is VERY dependent on a small group of major marathons for any future earnings) to perform a certain way (up to but not exceeding their current ability).

Other than that, your post is hauntingly relevant.

Good post! One thing differently I would say is I think the Kenyans (or ANY professional athlete) is TOTALLY on the ball for a "conspiracy"! ANY one who has grown up dirt poor in Africa and becomes a professional runner knows EXACTLY what the situation is and what to do. They are not naive, it is the people in America that grow up thinking that there are no conspiracies and the best person always wins are the ones that are naive! The Kenyans probably knew LAST YEAR that "next year an American has to win" and EXACTLY what to do WITHOUT EVEN BEING TOLD! If you don't know who the sucker is YOU ARE IT!

Super Jay Five wrote:

Good post! One thing differently I would say is I think the Kenyans (or ANY professional athlete) is TOTALLY on the ball for a "conspiracy"! ANY one who has grown up dirt poor in Africa and becomes a professional runner knows EXACTLY what the situation is and what to do. They are not naive, it is the people in America that grow up thinking that there are no conspiracies and the best person always wins are the ones that are naive! The Kenyans probably knew LAST YEAR that "next year an American has to win" and EXACTLY what to do WITHOUT EVEN BEING TOLD! If you don't know who the sucker is YOU ARE IT!

I wouldn't be surprised if they paid them all to rabbit. Said, listen, we'll pay $xxxxxx in appearance fees next year, but slack off, make it look competitive and then let one of the Americans win. So they paced an entire pack of Americans and hung around these 2:09-2:11 guys but the Americans went out slow hanging on the Africans. So Meb took off at a blistering 2:10 pace and grabbed a huge early lead, and once he was clear settled into a steady 2:08 pace. The Africans didn't follow or surge once, Hall tells the other Americans "slack off don't make a move, let meb win".

It's just too easy. All that's missing is a phone convo between the African Agents and BAA.

ConspiracyTheorist wrote:

he held on in a tough gut it out race, FOR AMERICA!!

God and America.