50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

You know, folks. I knew there would be a day when trolls would invade our thread. I was certain that allowing the thread to be continuous would invite more senior masters, but figured it would also incite some trollism. I like the continuous format better, so I’d like to continue in that way. Perhaps closing out and starting afresh bi-annually or so.

The prologue to this thread asks that participants respectfully engage with their training experiences, but we know that, strictly speaking, no one is beholden to that. It’s only mutual respect that we hold ourselves to these standards. Trolls really have nothing better to do than to try to drag us down with inane banter, and let’s face it; the LetsRun monitors have no interest in having any rules governing threads, so trolling is inevitable. I’ve asked politely to have troll posts removed, but I don’t think there is any interest by the management. So the options are to live with it and ignore it with good humor (best option), rail against it (futile), or quit posting altogether (saddening). In an unfortunate episode on another thread, it even got our good buddy (and now 50+ superstar) Pete Magill to quit posting on LetsRun entirely. I’d hate to see that sort of thing happen.

We’ve all had our days of glory, and know what we are about. We know there is biology of getting older that is undeniable. I, for one, am glad that I get to live long enough to experience the effects of aging. The trolls should hope they live so long to experience them, too. We are fortunate to have many aging athletes that are on this thread. Perhaps the trolls don’t realize that many of our posters had storied careers (some of them even Olympic medalists) and helped set the standards that today’s US runners are only now re-achieving. Today’s quote by Mark Nenow only serves to punctuate that point. We know what occurred in the past and can be thankful to have lived that history.

I’m reminded of my first ½ marathon that I ran when I was 18. I ran a time of 1:18 and was pretty satisfied especially since I really had never trained with any runs of over about 8 miles or so. But I finished in 74th place out of 260 entrants. Imagine; almost half the entrants finished in under 1:30…that would be absolutely unthinkable today. And this was just some local ½ marathon put on by the UW-Whitewater ROTC. Two years ago, I ran a popular half marathon and finished in 1:20 and once again finished about 75th overall, but there were over 4000 finishers. It really shows how running has become popular, but also how many of the runners are not nearly as serious runners as what we had back in the 70’s.

I’m thankful for having lived that history, I’m thankful that I’m still able to enjoy this activity, and I’m extremely thankful that you all also want to participate in a dialogue that explores the capabilities of us aging athletes.

As Neil Young once sang: "Long may you run."

Excellent post. I haven't put many posts on these sorts of threads because what I'm doing these days is pretty mundane and limited by some lifelong back stuff which has found its way to my knees as well.

But like you, I love having come through the era I did and continuing to be involved with the sport even if it's pretty casually now. I too generally try to ignore trolls here but I will tell the guy who mentions that we do a lot of jogging that I'm grateful for being able to do that and hope he's lucky enough to have someone say he same thing about him in 2-3 decades.

I can hardly believe my eyes, a whole forum on guys and gals 50+ who run once or twice a day. This is so great. I run twice a day six days a week and one LR. I find that breaking up the milage into two runs helps me recover quicker. My first run is the meat and potato run; 9 miles or so with whatever is the focus that morning, fartlek, steady state, tempo, regeneration, whatever. The evening run is just a very easy 3-5 miler in flats for ease. I adapt my training by the day as to how I feel. Yes I do stretch both before and after every run, lightly however, just hammys and calves. Pull Ups at the park every morning 1 set of 10. 100 crunches about once a month:) oops

Just do your best to ignore. (FYI I can guarantee 100% that my long time troll is here, now disguising himself as a non-troll 50+ yr old. But it does not matter. What training did you do today / this week?) :)

My 25min jog into work this morning felt very good, and I'm looking forward to a 40min run this afternoon.... I feel fitter! I already think I'm in 5:05 Mile shape without any hardcore sessions that simulate/drill that. Perhaps sub5 in 2012 is setting the bar too low.

Forgot to mention, 59 in several months and still running after all these years.

‎25min jog into work this morning, 40min run after work this afternoon...and both felt wonderful. I feel fitter. I love this new routine. The afternoon run saw several 1km loops of the Saxe Pt Park area, and I got up to a decent gallop. I MUST FIND A FALL 5k, DAMMIT.

Anyway, this is my first 65min / 15k ish day in a very long time. Excited!!! :)

The real Charlie S says who in the world would use my handle?

I have not posted on this thread in MONTHS.

Who ever took my handle also put a password on it

Just to make it clear I have not been posting here

but I figure I know who it might be shame on you

Charlie S, I know what happened. Email me for more info, and report offending posts. In my experience, most do get deleted. Carry on folks with your 50+ running training, and ignore the trolls.

Skuj, you are an idiot. Your troll is trying (very successfully) to destroy this thread so that he can "win" again, and finger you at the same time. Charlie S is that troll.

Charlie S The original wrote:

....but I figure I know who it might be shame on you

Desert Rat wrote:

I run twice a day six days a week and one LR. I find that breaking up the milage into two runs helps me recover quicker.

Ignoring the worthless banter, Desert Rat, that is some serious training. I applaud your dedication. What range of distances do you mostly train for?

Thanks lucKY2b, not really down with the troll lingo, old schooler here. Anyway, I am looking to get ready for a Fall Marathon; ING NYC. Never ran there before NY RR's gave me a sub seed so I guess I'll go back to see what I can lay out there. Of course I am in the throws now of marathon training, weight dipping, beat up and tied all the time, wife loves me:) and this training:) very easy to get along with.... Needless to say, I'll be glad to go back to my old five and dime training with this is over. I am told this is no PR course and add 10 to 15 minutes to the norm. Have you ever run it? Again a great forum, but in another 15 months I'll be looking for the 60+ forums. Shoot, I loved the 50's, and the 40's, 30"s were the quickest... and the 20's were a blur.

Desert Rat wrote:

Shoot, I loved the 50's, and the 40's, 30"s were the quickest... and the 20's were a blur.

Haha, love that! It's hard to believe how fast 40s went for me, especially when we are now looking at 10th anniv of 9/11. Seems like yesterday.

You may find that you have loved this training so much, and the old five and dime might not cut it anymore??

A lovely feeling 25min run into work this morning for me, carrying various items, thought that would slow me down, due to changed posture etc, but at the expected 25min/end of my run I had to "overshoot" for a minute or so due to running out of real-estate! :) ie I find that my paces (jog, easy, tempo) are naturally getting quicker after nearly a month of this new routine.

Re; NYCM... I took my best shot there in 2007 at age 56. I'd run a couple half marathons earlier that fall in the mid 1:20's and thought a 3;05 to 3;10 was a realistic goal come Nov.

Race Day... Alas, my quads were shot by 18 miles. I seriously considered walking it in or dropping out at 19. tylenol got me limping humbly home in just over 3:20. The bridges are a factor to reckon with. Be as road tough as you can get, and don't think a minimally cushioned shoe is the best choice.

All that said, I relished every second and still consider it the finest marathon I've been blessed to partake in, of the 57 I've run.

We went back last year to just to watch it. Grand spectacle IMHO.

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Week 16

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Bump for the week, although it hardly needed bumping with all the activity (good and not-so-good) last week. Glad to know there are more people out there that appreciate this thread. I iterate once more that there is no "mundane training" that is unworthy of communicating. Any day that us old farts get to run is a blessing that is to be cherished, so don't be shy.

Continuing to slowly increase my mileage since the lay-off, so 35 mundane (and blessed) miles for me this week. Ran 6 days with runs of 7,4,5.5,6.5,7,5.5. Still not using a watch (mostly), and not trying to do any real speed workouts, just continuing to rebuild endurance. I did try to tempo 3 miles during one of my 7 mile runs, but my lower back started bugging me after two miles, so I had to back off; was running at about 6:30 pace (feeling really slow these days) at the time. Amazing how taking a couple of months off can affect so many parts of the body. I've not ever experienced lower back problems, so I have to believe that it's taking longer for that part to recondition than some other parts.

Thought I'd reintroduce this article from Running Times magazine posted a couple years ago.

http://runningtimes.com/Print.aspx?articleID=17947

Had some salient points about training as we age. As always, the main message I get from it is to listen to your body.

Hope everyone is running well and training wisely.

Thanks for that link, lucKY2b. I'm definitely from the Richard Brown school of thought; runs of at least 60 minutes two or three times each week. It's easy to be onboard with him considering the successes he has had with his athletes. Still I am also a firm believer in the different strokes for different folks philosophy. We are each an experiment of one.

As if to illustrate that fact, unlike many here I am not a fan of racing often. I can appreciate the desire to measure oneself against competition or a specific distance, but it's not something that I personally feel the need to do often. If I race twice each year, that's a lot. I don't get a lot out of going to the local track meet and finishing well behind other 50+ milers running in the 4:30s and 4:40s. Sure I can check my result against my age adjusted PR, but it's not much fun. I'd rather punch out an easy 60 minutes along a favorite route. Now that is something I enjoy! And I think it does more for my physical and mental fitness.

So each to his own. I'll keep doing the running that makes me feel good about myself. And I will throw in the occasional race, but not too often. At my age racing takes a back seat to the joys of the long(ish) run. Each to his own.

Kiryea wrote:

Thanks for that link, lucKY2b. I'm definitely from the Richard Brown school of thought; runs of at least 60 minutes two or three times each week. It's easy to be onboard with him considering the successes he has had with his athletes......

......I don't get a lot out of going to the local track meet and finishing well behind other 50+ milers running in the 4:30s and 4:40s.

You will have to forgive my ignorance, but who is Richard Brown? Where can I read about his philosphy? Thank you.

Oh, and if your local meets have 50+ milers running 4:30s and 4:40s, then I am very surprised and impressed. ;0

Begging forgiveness, the Richard Brown info is in the link supplied by lucy2b, thank you.

ThomY wrote:

You will have to forgive my ignorance, but who is Richard Brown? Where can I read about his philosphy? Thank you.

Richard Brown is a well known coach in elite T&F circles. His charges have included Mary Decker, Suzy Favor, and other top notch milers. I'm sure you can Google him to get lots more info.

ThomY wrote:

Oh, and if your local meets have 50+ milers running 4:30s and 4:40s, then I am very surprised and impressed. ;0

Admittedly the 4:30 results are rare, but the 4:40s are routine among the top few finishers in the annual meet. It's not unusual to have the top 10 in the 50-60 age groups run sub 5:00.

Bushman: Many thanks for the sage advice on racing NYC. Glad you cleared up the racing flat dilemma for me, I almost opted for Nike Mayfly's for a change, now I think the Nike Lunar Racer for sure, it's my normal marathon racing flat. After reading your comments yesterday I put in a 12 miler and just bombed the downs. Quads were a little touchy this a.m.:) My goals are similar to what yours were so I will go back the drawing board and look at another race plan that will allow me to finish strong. One of the drawbacks to racing alone without my wife or friends being there; I have to run conservatively because no one is there to pick up the pieces if I have a wreck. Thanks again. Man I am loving this forum already.